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REVIEW: Guilty Crown Episodes 1-5 Streaming


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egoist



Joined: 20 Jun 2008
Posts: 7762
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 2:07 pm Reply with quote
Episode 2 bored me to death. Given the trauma, I haven't approached this thing since.

The art is pretty good and the girl is attractive, I give you that. I don't usually have trouble with that kind of protagonist, but that one is beyond generic. Seriously, give the man a few unique traits.

It's funny that something so close to music anime (like Macross) has such a collection of awful songs. Definitely a mood killer if you get home drunk and try to find something good to watch.
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One-Eye



Joined: 08 Mar 2011
Posts: 2261
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 2:36 pm Reply with quote
I was tempted to drop GC after the first episode and stuck with it in part because of the visuals. The other reason I stuck with it was because it had a few moments that were strong like that cruel spoiler[shove off the train, which the creators then lost their balls in the later episode for giving a convenient out/reason for the perpetrator of that betrayal.] I also liked Shu's spoiler[jealousy], but will they actually do something with it orspoiler[ will they play the whole misunderstanding card and then] gloss it over?

As far as recycling ideas or tropes that doesn't bother me if its done well. I think that if its done really well, we might not even notice or if its integrated well with the story it can still be good and entertaining. On the other hand, just throwing a whole plethora of tropes into a show can have the opposite effect as in being distracting or irritating.

I found the music to be fine in itself, but I'm not sure it always works with how its employed.

Aside from the visuals the show does not give me the confidence that it will deliver a strong enough story right now. Its borderline being dropped by me and am probably only going to give it another ep or 2 to convince me I should stay for the whole ride.
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Ferian



Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 162
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 4:18 pm Reply with quote
Mr Sinister wrote:
I guess it's perfectly normal to believe a girl on a secret mission over the police, I mean... she does have pink hair.

I thought the fact that she had tits to be of greater importance there. Rolling Eyes

I dropped the show after 1 episode, and don't really care if it gets better or not. So, dunno how it plays out later on, but episode 1, at least, had a landslide of stupidity in the characters' decisions. That is always a big turn-off for me.

The music didn't do anything for me. I consider this a fine example of theme music power up done wrong.
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KentaMaeba



Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Posts: 121
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 4:21 pm Reply with quote
Vaisaga wrote:
I agree but Guilty Crown does make good use of them, as the review itself points out. But the review also critisizes the mere fact that the tropes are there in the first place.

I think "tropes are used poorly" is perfectly fine criticism, but "tropes are used at all" is not. If some one will hate a show just because it uses tropes, well, then they'll never like anything ever.


Forgiving much? The purpose of Tropes is to serve narrative and characters. Like Konopan said, Tropes used poorly can make for a terrible plot.

While Guilty Crown definitely executes them well, is there really anything else beyond that? Ask yourself this, what distinguishes Guilty Crown from other anime? While it's true that everything is done before, nothing is absolute - each of the best anime ALWAYS have something that distinguishes itself as its own (example: Evangelion, FMA, Cowboy Bebop, AnoHana). If you strip all the tropes from the plot of Guilty Crown, all you'll find is a stereotypical story of a wimpy-underdog who scores a magical girlfriend and joins a rebellion against an evil gov't.

"You won't ever find a show that isn't a 'pile of cliches'"? Untrue. Why? While everything has its cliches, only the worst is a "pile of cliches" (example, Tokyo Undergound). Tell me, is Fullmetal Alchemist cliched from beginning to end? What about Cowboy Bebop? Cliches are everywhere, but the best has only moments of it. NOTHING IS ABSOLUTE.

What hurts the most is how inappropriately you use the word "cliche"; do you even know what the term means? A cliché or cliche is an expression, idea, or element of an artistic work which has been overused to the point of losing its original meaning or effect. Guilty Crown is seriously cliched. Something like AnoHana is not. Why? Because the anime can make you cry, and relate to the characters' pain. Cliches have little to no meaning, but a "cliche" that can evoke a deep emotion or understanding, allowing us to explore the human condition and who we really are, is not really a cliche at all. It would be contradictory. If that wasn't the case, it would be stranger.
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blackseer



Joined: 09 Sep 2011
Posts: 94
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 4:41 pm Reply with quote
KentaMaeba wrote:
Vaisaga wrote:
I agree but Guilty Crown does make good use of them, as the review itself points out. But the review also critisizes the mere fact that the tropes are there in the first place.

I think "tropes are used poorly" is perfectly fine criticism, but "tropes are used at all" is not. If some one will hate a show just because it uses tropes, well, then they'll never like anything ever.


Forgiving much? The purpose of Tropes is to serve narrative and characters. Like Konopan said, Tropes used poorly can make for a terrible plot.

While Guilty Crown definitely executes them well, is there really anything else beyond that? Ask yourself this, what distinguishes Guilty Crown from other anime? While it's true that everything is done before, nothing is absolute - each of the best anime ALWAYS have something that distinguishes itself as its own (example: Evangelion, FMA, Cowboy Bebop, AnoHana). If you strip all the tropes from the plot of Guilty Crown, all you'll find is a stereotypical story of a wimpy-underdog who scores a magical girlfriend and joins a rebellion against an evil gov't.

"You won't ever find a show that isn't a 'pile of cliches'"? Untrue. Why? While everything has its cliches, only the worst is a "pile of cliches" (example, Tokyo Undergound). Tell me, is Fullmetal Alchemist cliched from beginning to end? What about Cowboy Bebop? Cliches are everywhere, but the best has only moments of it. NOTHING IS ABSOLUTE.

What hurts the most is how inappropriately you use the word "cliche"; do you even know what the term means? A cliché or cliche is an expression, idea, or element of an artistic work which has been overused to the point of losing its original meaning or effect. Guilty Crown is seriously cliched. Something like AnoHana is not. Why? Because the anime can make you cry, and relate to the characters' pain. Cliches have little to no meaning, but a "cliche" that can evoke a deep emotion or understanding, allowing us to explore the human condition and who we really are, is not really a cliche at all. It would be contradictory. If that wasn't the case, it would be stranger.

I don't think your arguments work as well you think they do for the simple fact that you don't explain your examples too well, or they could be read in another way.
AnoHana is a show that is built over many cliches and if the fact that it made us care about its characters (which is subjective; I probably didn't as much as you did, since it's not one of my favorites shows of the year or anything), then Guilty Crown shouldn't be disconsidered yet. There are great character moments after the first two episodes and there is potential in that.
And if you strip the cliches out of the show, at least the visuals should remain, which is something to count for.
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ikillchicken



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 7272
Location: Vancouver
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 5:17 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
The heart is largely in Shu's relationship with Inori.


I truly don't know how anyone can find "heart" in their relationship. Inori is by far one of the worst female anime characters in years. Even worse in fact that the dozens of generic one note cliches we've seen over the years because at least they had something that defined them. The closest thing Inori has to an actual characteristic (let alone an actual personality) is that she's a pop star which doesn't even make sense, it just...is, because EVERYTHING MUST BE IDOL SINGERS!

Other than that, she's so utterly devoid of emotion that she barely comes of as being alive. She's basically a glorified real doll that Gai dangles in front of Shu to control him. (I really don't know why this show isn't about Gai instead. It would be so much more interesting). Frankly it comes off like she isn't even aware of Shu which makes it really pathetic to watch as he desperately projects a relationship that simply doesn't exist.

Quote:
That puts some real life into a lot of dead clichés, and makes for a fast-moving, ever-evolving show to boot. Araki is good at moving fast. He keeps the show's pace swift, without getting hectic or confusing or depriving developments of their proper impact—all crimes he has been guilty of in the past. He builds tension efficiently and effectively, something that will surprise no who has seen Death Note, and even if he isn't the most sensitive of animators, the emotional jabs still make it through more or less intact. Araki's great contribution, however, is making Guilty Crown kick serious butt. It's a truly beautiful series all around. Araki's eye for color, composition and motion is excellent and he has all of Production I.G's muscle behind him. Even something as simple as Shu heading to his first meeting with Gai is kinetic and exciting in his hands.


This I'll agree with. This is the one thing that keeps the show in the realm of watchable. It's well paced and at least keeps things fresh. It's enough that I can watch it for the explosions if nothing else. That said...

Quote:
The character art and animation is uniformly sharp and the cast's attire ridiculously stylish (particularly stylish and particularly ridiculous in Inori's case)


While you're absolutely right about the animation, I completely disagree about the character designs. The only vaguely notable character design is Inori and her outfit is so utterly inane and inappropriate given the context that she's not notable in a good way.
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KentaMaeba



Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Posts: 121
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 7:28 pm Reply with quote
blackseer wrote:
AnoHana is a show that is built over many cliches and if the fact that it made us care about its characters (which is subjective; I probably didn't as much as you did, since it's not one of my favorites shows of the year or anything), then Guilty Crown shouldn't be disconsidered yet. There are great character moments after the first two episodes and there is potential in that.
And if you strip the cliches out of the show, at least the visuals should remain, which is something to count for.


It's all a matter of perspective. To me, and many others, "AnoHana" is a true masterpiece, building on what "Toradora!" aimed to achieve (both animes are by the same director). The realistic and de-constructive/re-constructive ideas on love, romance, relationships, and the pain of "wanting what you can't have", makes AnoHana flawless in its narrative and characters. Sure it builds on cliches, but its writing and execution is handled so damn well its hardly a bad aspect.



If "Toradora!" rapidly approaches perfection, then AnoHana succeeds. Ah, look at me go on.

Now about the later episodes of Guilty Crown, I don't deny what you said. But it's gonna take a lot more than a bit of character development and flashy scenes to make this series distinct.
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Vaisaga



Joined: 07 Oct 2011
Posts: 13226
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 8:19 pm Reply with quote
KentaMaeba wrote:
Forgiving much?


You should try it, you'll have a lot more fun that way. I can only imagine how many years of entertainment I'd have missed out on if I cared how cliched something was.

KentaMaeba wrote:
Ask yourself this, what distinguishes Guilty Crown from other anime?


This question is irrelevant. Why does it matter how it compares to other anime? Perhaps if I was only allowed to watch X number of shows then I'd have to carefully screen what I watch and only pick the best of the best. Such is not the case, though, and I'm free to watch whatever I choose to.

There might not be anything special about the building downtown, but is it still a good building? Well it's not falling over so I'm going to say "yes" even if it's built using the same materials as countless other buildings.

There's plenty of reused materials in AnoHana, but who cares? I loved AnoHana, and apparently so did you. Just goes to show that a series filled with cliches can still be great.

Guilty Crown has the exact same potential. And so what if it doesn't blow anyone's socks off in the end. It's entertaining and that's all that matters.
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KentaMaeba



Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Posts: 121
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 8:59 pm Reply with quote
Vaisaga wrote:
You should try it, you'll have a lot more fun that way. I can only imagine how many years of entertainment I'd have missed out on if I cared how cliched something was.


No one said I was going to stop watching Guilty Crown. A good storyteller needs to know what makes an anime enjoyable and what makes it not. I analyze story structures and characters in anime. I'm not ignorant.

Vaisaga wrote:
This question is irrelevant. Why does it matter how it compares to other anime? Perhaps if I was only allowed to watch X number of shows then I'd have to carefully screen what I watch and only pick the best of the best. Such is not the case, though, and I'm free to watch whatever I choose to.

There might not be anything special about the building downtown, but is it still a good building? Well it's not falling over so I'm going to say "yes" even if it's built using the same materials as countless other buildings.


I don't just watch the "best of the best" - I too watch all kinds of anime. Either way, I still analyze them and create judgements and criticism based on what I see or saw.

However, knowing what distinguishes an anime as it is allows a broader view on anime itself - this way, one can truly enjoy all anime has to offer without falling into the traps of stereotypical and bland cash-ins.

Vaisaga wrote:
There's plenty of reused materials in AnoHana, but who cares? I loved AnoHana, and apparently so did you. Just goes to show that a series filled with cliches can still be great.


The level of perfection AnoHana achieves on its part is what makes it a truly enjoyable series. The "cliches" and "reused materials" in AnoHana was executed so well they're hardly a bad aspect at all. The writing and pacing in the story is flawless, building on what "Toradora!" achieved.

Vaisaga wrote:
Guilty Crown has the exact same potential. And so what if it doesn't blow anyone's socks off in the end. It's entertaining and that's all that matters.


No it doesn't. AnoHana from the very beginning was expected to be great - the same director as Toradora, "A-1 Pictures" animation studio, etc. It delivered and exceeded all expectations.

Guilty Crown leaves much to be desired. From the very beginning, everyone had extremely high hopes for this series, only to be utterly disappointed. Comparing it to AnoHana would be an insult.

Now, if you compared it to something like "Gosick", which started out mediocre and ended gloriously, it would make alot more sense. If compared with Gosick, then yes Guilty Crown does have potential. But also like Gosick, I'll need to see lots of improvement.
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Vaisaga



Joined: 07 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:22 pm Reply with quote
I definitely wouldn't throw the word "perfection" around. Nothing is really perfect. Toradora was great until they totally ruined it with the ending and AnoHana really forced the drama sometimes, especially with that last episode.

Also, neither of them are called Aim for the Top! Gunbuster, so... Razz

Expecting something to live up to 'perfection' will always set you up for disappointment anyways. Or any high expectations for that matter. It's not the show's fault for not living up to your expectations, it's your fault for having those expectations in the first place.

Guilty Crown wasn't specifically made to impress you, or anyone else.
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ikillchicken



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 7272
Location: Vancouver
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 10:03 pm Reply with quote
Vaisaga wrote:
Or any high expectations for that matter. It's not the show's fault for not living up to your expectations, it's your fault for having those expectations in the first place.


Dear god...

I really do find myself at a loss for words here. Not only should we all wallow in mediocrity...those of us who don't are now wrong for setting higher expectations!?

What is wrong with you? I mean, seriously, wtf man?
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Vaisaga



Joined: 07 Oct 2011
Posts: 13226
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 10:24 pm Reply with quote
So you're saying that everyone should go into a show expecting it to be the greatest thing ever? And when the show doesn't turn out to be the greatest thing ever then it deserves to be hated?

If you do that you'll just end up hating mostly everything. It's okay for a show to be safe, unambitious, or not innovative. It can still be well constructed entertainment and there's no shame in enjoying it.

Go in carte blanche. See a show for what it is, not what it isn't.
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hissatsu01



Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 963
Location: NYC
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 10:55 pm Reply with quote
Vaisaga wrote:

Go in carte blanche.


Somehow I don't think that means what you think it means. Considering carte blanche can only be "given" and what it gives you is full rein to do what you wish, I'm pretty certain you mean something else. Though apparently for you, the one thing it doesn't give you is full rein to just not like this show.

Quote:
See a show for what it is, not what it isn't.


So if you watch it and think it's very pretty, but it makes your eyes roll several times per episode, you're just not seeing it for what it is. And if you don't think the adventures of one of the whiniest, most self-pitying male leads to come in quite a while and the singing girl robot/overpowered weapon dispenser are all that interesting, you're also not seeing it for what it is.
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dtm42



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 14084
Location: currently stalking my waifu
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 11:04 pm Reply with quote
Vaisaga wrote:
So you're saying that everyone should go into a show expecting it to be the greatest thing ever?


Of course not. But I do expect a certain level of quality. It's up to consumers to have minimum standards, otherwise we'll keep on being inundated with crap.

Vaisaga wrote:
Go in carte blanche.


I do not think that means what you think it means.
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ikillchicken



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 7272
Location: Vancouver
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 11:11 pm Reply with quote
Vaisaga wrote:
So you're saying that everyone should go into a show expecting it to be the greatest thing ever? And when the show doesn't turn out to be the greatest thing ever then it deserves to be hated?


It's hardly a binary issue. Yeah, it would be a waste to let a shows flaws and your own expectations of perfection put you off of what it still a very good show. However, Guilty Crown is neither perfect nor even good. It's mediocre at best. Not even really. That is what I'm saying. This idea that we shouldn't set higher expectations of any kind is crazy. If you choose to set low standards just to avoid disappointment then that's one thing but don't presume to tell me I'm wrong for not being willing to settle for mediocrity.

Quote:
It's okay for a show to be safe, unambitious, or not innovative.


Well...yes and no. Again, it's not exactly a binary issue. It's an issue of degrees. Can a show be safe and still good? Sure. If it makes up for it with strong execution. Can a show be nothing but horrid, trite cliches and still be good? It's not impossible but it's a lot less likely. It better have some pretty damn stellar execution to make up for it. That's sort of the underlying thing too. Cliche might not automatically ruin a show but it is invariably a negative, something that other, positive elements must make up for.
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