Forum - View topicName consistency
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Lucia Black 13
Posts: 8 |
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Does anyone else see some inconsistency? Well I just made an account to mention one particular case.
Specifically information related to tachikoma na hibi, the name being used for tachikomatic days (and the official english and most common one as the alternative) I'm actually a wikipedia editor and currently ANN's news and reviews are considered reliable. Encyclopedic areas can't be considered reliable due to them being mainly user edited. so I can understand if the encyclopedic areas don't often use the actual name. However there are inconsistencies of names in the news and reviews mainly being naming. For tachikoma na hibi being used in the news and tachikoma days being used in reviews. And also leaves inaccurate information aswell. Particularly one news such as tachikoma na hibi manga being the same name as the tv short series. Now its not true in the case of two aspects. 1) the short series english name is different. 2) they are merely pronounced the same in japanese but both use different kanji changing the meaning. The kanji of the tv short series translates as "a daily tachikoma" which makes sense why the official english title being tachikomatic days. The manga however translates as "tachikoma cracks" Now this is just one example but I'm positive there are a lot more particularly older ones that have that problem. I find it suggest the lack of organization and proper research. |
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dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor
 Posts: 9902 Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC |
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Sure, we've got 6030 "inconsistencies" as of now. While your post have successfully attracted my attention, in the future please 1) post in the Encyclopedia forum and 2) be more specific on what exactly you want us to fix. There are many good examples in that forum so please read them and learn how to submit a good report.
Your words sound sincere, and I have just set "Tachikomatic Days" as the main title, but most items (including the said title) within that entry were entered 6-7 years ago. Back then, we didn't yet have a strict requirement asking users to include verifiable source information, thus many submissions were entered in a "because I say so" manner.
Have you realized that you've just slapped your own face? At least ANN requires registration before editing, yet Wikipedia allows anonymous editing, with nothing but the IP address of the editor recorded. Furthermore, insulting staff and veteran users with the very first post isn't very diplomatic.
Are you really sure that you know what you're talking about? The manga illustrated by Masayuki Yamamoto has the title タチコマなヒビ, which is the same as the anime title タチコマな日々, with only 日々 written in katakana ヒビ. It is not 皹 (skin cracks) or 罅 (porcelain cracks) you're talking about -- those two kanji are very obscure and I bet most Japanese don't use them in daily lives. Last but not least: if you want people taking your words seriously, be sure to use proper capitalization and remember to include a verb in every sentence. |
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Lucia Black 13
Posts: 8 |
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6030 inconsistencies with the word in. Italics suggests you are making a sarcastic attack. Wikipedia doesn't use user edited info as a reliable source. Therefore wikipedia does not use sources that anyone can change by anyone (and anonymous editors doesn't mean a thing even if it were relevant), wikipedia also wouldn't self reference. I'm not saying wikipedia is more reliable then ANN because clearly you missed the point. I have no problem with the encyclopedia section of ANN. However its the review and news section that uses the naming. Inconsistently. And I say kanji just to speed up time as my phone is 10% low battery. The point I'm saying is that the news and review sections is what makes naming inconsistent. The two still translate differently I never mentioned skin cracks or porcelaine cracks. Honestly you were so worked up about imaginary attacks to ANN encyclopedia editors, you missed the entire point. The points being inconsistent names in the news and reviews sections, areas where not just any editor can update. |
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Dan42
Chief Encyclopedist
 Posts: 3782 Location: Montreal |
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Due to your poor syntax and sentence structure dormcat misunderstood and thought you were talking about errors in the Encyclopedia. And actually I was going to misunderstand in the same way until I read your second post. What can I say, it's easy to be misunderstood when you type quickly on a phone.
As for using both "Tachikoma na Hibi" and "Tachikoma Days" in news and reviews, I don't consider that to be a terrible inconsistency. Both names are correct, so either one is appropriate to use in articles. Always insisting on One True Name is IMHO an over-pedantic consistency which doesn't serve any purpose (i.e. a foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds) Also you have to remember that the common name of an anime can change over time. But even if the official name changes from "Tachikoma na Hibi" to "Tachikoma Days", we're not going to go back and edit our old articles. That's because we stand by what we write; we have a policy of never hiding what we wrote in the first place and that's precisely one of the reasons why our news and reviews are considered reliable by wikipedia BTW I'm preeeetty sure the manga doesn't translate as "Tachikoma Cracks" 
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Lucia Black 13
Posts: 8 |
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Suggesting the common name can change over time is false. Once a name has been well known, it sticks and usually between english and japanese titles, the english name becomes the common. Alternative english titles is one thing, but when there's an english title already out, should it be treated as minor even though japanese has been around? I'm only asking for consistency between reviews and news and it makes the anime news network that much more organized. Wikipedia considers the news reliable due to them being referenced by other sources without question. Isn't that what the website is about? Anime NEWS Network. However, its not about standing by what you write. The news can be "updated" and especially with consistency of name won't do harm. Meaningless consistency to you, but I only used this as an example because it shows signs of encyclopedia (user edited) influencing the news |
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dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor
Posts: 9902 Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC |
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Have you ever submitted a résumé written on a piece of napkin? It's not something in emergency; therefore, a well-written error report that comes in a day later would be much persuasive than a hastily-written message loaded with syntax errors. We can wait until you can sit down in front of a computer.
I set it in bold -- not italic -- in order to emphasize the number; I have no idea why it was displayed in italic on your cell phone. The number was very real and I was not joking at all.
Allow me to refresh your memory: you wrote
Like Dan said, we don't re-write past articles (with the exception of very minor errors e.g. single-letter typos, which have no effect on the content of the news/review). If something new comes in moments after the news article has been published, or an error (not just an insignificant typo) has been found, an update or an erratum would be issued, respectively. Switching all "Tachikoma na Hibi" in old articles (only two of them, and even the newer one is now more than seven months old) to "Tachikomatic Days" is not only meaningless but also ethically questionable.
Source please? "[T]he most common use"; so you've done a market research? May I see the numbers? I'm sure that although I don't have the physical disc or even a fansub file, give me some time and I can and will find a legitimate source of the official title of this omake, but I want to see what YOU can provide.
A famous example is Rurouni Kenshin: Trust & Betrayal. When Media Blasters and ADV Films acquired the TV series and the OVA, respectively, MB chose to stick with the original Japanese title while ADV coined a new title: Samurai X. While most English-speaking fans prefer the original title (technically, Kenshin was not a samurai at all), we stick the official ADV title for many years, until Aniplex of America re-released the limited edition BD under Rurouni Kenshin: Trust & Betrayal, and the main title has been switched to that ever since.
Do you like your coworkers telling you how to do your job? What do you think of backseat drivers? We don't interfere reviewers' and their editors' jobs. If they think an article is okay for publish as is, it's their decisions, and we respect their decisions even if we might not completely agree with them.
Adding "Update: Starting from 2011, 'Samurai X' is now called 'Rurouni Kenshin: Trust & Betrayal' by Aniplex of America" to every single news and review article containing Samurai X would be a ridiculous, complete waste of time. Last but not least, an off-topic advice: saying "you missed my point" can be considered very rude, especially to a stranger; I'd only say so when I got really mad at that person. In almost every other case, I'd say "Sorry, I didn't my point clear enough; allow me to rephrase:" instead. |
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Shiroi Hane
Encyclopedia Editor
 Posts: 7580 Location: Wales |
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IIRC Tachikoma na Hibi is the original Japanese name for the shorts while the Manga/Bandai DVDs use Tachikomatic Days (which isn't a direct translation).
Unless there there is also a Japanese source also using this translation, prior to the English release any news articles are likely to use a direct translation along with a transliteration of the Japanese. While the title used in the Encyclopedia could and should be updated when a series is licensed, why should news articles be retconned? Even after licensing the terms used may depend on the source of the news but the Encyclopedia allows for alternate titles and like Dan said, there is no One True NameTM. When it comes to reviews the names used may depend on what language is being reviewed - to use an example, if you were reviewing Kiddy Grade in English you may well refer to Armbrust as "Armblast" as this is an error introduced to the dub that is also used for consistency in the accompanying dubtitles. If you were reviewing in Japanese with subtitles you would use Armblast as the subtitles accompanying the Japanese track are correct. |
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Lucia Black 13
Posts: 8 |
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for consistency sake. and trust me, the main reason this is being asked.
I also understand there are some where the original name at the time was before any official english name or was known as that name at the time (which i made clear before). the example of samurai X doesn't really stand, because it was released in english as samurai X. it's an english title, which was reported correctly at the time. but that's not the case here. Using original japanese name after an official english name, don't you think common sense would dictate to use the lisenced official english name? like i said, there are strong signs of encyclopedia affecting the news. plus, this argument, is gettting to the point where users feel offended for the key staff, so i would ask people to not take it personally. If they decide to do what i suggest, don't get mad, don't get mad now. if you don't agree you can leave aswell because this is mainly aimed towards key staff, not editors. also please don't take that the wrong way. for the case that i'm suggesting is still highly possible without the worry of confusion. tachikoma na hibi isn't the most common name nor the official english one. maybe the staff that does reviews should update the staff on news whenever theres an official english name to use. you're asking why but, don't you think thats a useless question to ask at the moment? if i just counter it with another question such as "why not"? it gets to the point where it's all about preference of the staff....again this is mainly meant for the staff... @dormcat: please know what rude is. right no you're being a hypocrit and i'm saying that as a fact, not to offend you. You missed my point period. i was clear enough, i don't have to make it any clearer than what it already it is. And you seem to act as if you call the shots. So stop. I'm merely bringing a proposal and you are turning it into an argument which doesn't need to. i can understand correcting mistakes, but overall this is just a proposal to staff, not to you. And also, i used several translators which keep bringing it up. And no, i'm not using just "hibi" i'm using "nahibi" since nahibi = なヒビ in the manga and "nahibi" in the CG short = な日々. but then again if i use just "hibi" alone then yes, i still get cracks which could mean anything. but then again there's ひび |
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Dessa
 Posts: 4438 |
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I've been watching this thread but not commenting, and the only person I see being rude is you.
You also realize that every person who has replied to you is on the site's staff in some way or another, so I don't see where you're "this is for staff, not you" argument is coming from. |
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Tempest
 I Run this place.ANN Publisher  Posts: 10420 Location: Do not message me for support. |
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Sorry, I can't fully understand all your sentences, but I understand the general gist of your issue.
Our general practice with news articles is to refer to a title by it's English Name if it has an official English name, and to use its Japanese name otherwise. In the case of franchises that have more than one official English title, we will use the one that pertains to that particular article. When the case can't be made for any title in particular, we will use the more common English title. We will not go back and update articles or reviews that were correct when they were written. That said, minor accidental inconsistency is not a huge problem in the editorial / journalism field. What is most important are the fact and timely delivery of the facts. Unlike encyclopedia editors, journalists and their editors do not have the luxury to take as long as they need to nitpick every consistency issue. Nor does any newsroom in the world expect them to. If you notice an issue where a journalist made a consistency error in a current article, by all means please point it out (please point out which article), we'll be more than happy to correct it. |
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Lucia Black 13
Posts: 8 |
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Thank you and sorry this was extended to unecessary argument. And yes that makes perfect sense
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dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor
Posts: 9902 Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC |
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With your approval above I just fixed one. 
Now I feel less annoyed but more intrigued. Just like Dessa said; I wondered where your argument above came from.
I wouldn't call myself "good" at Japanese language, but you really need to brush it up, particularly when you want others to do things in your way. And I just don't understand why you insist on "cracks," an unreasonable translation in any way.
So what exactly do you want us to do now? |
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Shiroi Hane
Encyclopedia Editor
Posts: 7580 Location: Wales |
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Right now I can't see what kanji you typed there, but it is not "nahibi". "Na" is a particle, made explicit by the fact that is it in hiragana and the following character is kanji. The whole name is quite clearly delinated by script used
tachikoma (katakana)|na (hiragana)|hibi (kanji) Tachikoma is obvious. na: One of those "I kinda know what is means but can't explain it" things. Hibi: Daily |
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Tempest
I Run this place. ANN Publisher Posts: 10420 Location: Do not message me for support. |
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Nothing. I think Lucia was saying that (s)he understood our policy and how to report inconsistencies in the future. |
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Teriyaki Terrier
 Posts: 5689 |
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I'll admit, I've been watching this topic for several days, but hadn't posted commented simply due to me wondering how this would turn out, but I've got say this.
I am truly impressed by how responsive how the ANN staff was on this issue. Now it might just be that I have a great respect for the staff here, but it's very rare to see a question like this answered so quickly/frequently and even by Tempest no less. This may be off topic and if it is, I do apologize, but this is why I enjoy ANN as much as I do. The fact that if a issue arises, it's likely that it will be answered in a timely matter. Even if I wanted to, you can't really say that about any other website these days. Sorry If I did go off topic there, but I figured, instead of posting what I was going to initially post, this post I actually made would be better suited at this point. |
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