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Hey, Answerman! - Simply Cel-ular


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Tenchi



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 4469
Location: Ottawa... now I'm an ex-Anglo Montrealer.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 3:43 pm Reply with quote
I think the major difference between pricing now and pricing a few years ago, when cheap boxsets reigned, is that the casual, spendthrift fans generally have moved on to streaming, leaving physical media to collectors like me who don't mind paying a few dollars extra for quality, especially if it's on Blu-Ray. It's comparable to what I was paying for anime on VHS and occasionally Laserdisc back in the 1990's. I'd rather pay less than more, but if the pool of physical media buyers is shrinking, I understand prices will have to go up.

I haven't yet decided if I'll go for the regular Blu-Ray or the deluxe Blu-Ray for Madoka Magica but I am leaning towards deluxe, if just for the CD, which is always my favourite extra since I am a physical media die-hard, even for music.
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marcos torres toledo



Joined: 01 Sep 2009
Posts: 269
PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 5:16 pm Reply with quote
So Nadisco anime is avialble Cartoon Network forgot to show the whole series when they had it and they left me hanging as well with Yu Hasho when they chancelled that series. I got lucky with Rave Master SyFy picked it up and I was at least able to watch the first season at least but even they left me hanging with Starblasters when they ax anime night. Since neither Manga.com or Anime Network haven't answer my email I sent them asking why I can't stream anime from their websites and I am block from using their websites because I live in Puerto Rico could you answer that question. By the way Shonensunday.com and Funimation Channel did the same when I was streaming InYasha :The Final Act and Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood. Puerto Rico is a US territory and we use the same money and postal system and are under the same Federal Laws what gives. Thanks for ANN and HULU I can stream from them at least Mad
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enurtsol



Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 14761
PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 6:45 pm Reply with quote
marcos torres toledo wrote:
Cartoon Network forgot to show the whole series when they had it and they left me hanging as well with Yu Hasho when they chancelled that series.


CN finished Yu Yu Hakusho at like 5:30 in the morning.
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Mirri



Joined: 12 Aug 2007
Posts: 313
PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 6:49 pm Reply with quote
enurtsol wrote:
marcos torres toledo wrote:
Cartoon Network forgot to show the whole series when they had it and they left me hanging as well with Yu Hasho when they chancelled that series.


CN finished Yu Yu Hakusho at like 5:30 in the morning.


Yep, Cartoon Network put Yu Yu Hakusho in to the timeslot of death, 5:30AM on Friday morning. It's where their anime goes to die.
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StudioToledo



Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Posts: 847
Location: Toledo, U.S.A.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 7:42 pm Reply with quote
Covnam wrote:
So out of curiosity, besides Sazae-san (and other decades long series), what were some of the other last few shows/movies to use cells?

I recall some of "Spirit of Wonder: Scientific Boys Club" did, though it was rather apparent to see the shift between scenes that shifted from the use of film to digital in different shots. Cowboy Bebop was the same way back in '98 where the quality shifts were apparent.

The way it is apparently done with Sazae-san now, they would paint the cels as normal but they're photographed digitally rather than on film first (same technique as doing pencil test scans).

marcos torres toledo wrote:
So Nadisco anime is avialble Cartoon Network forgot to show the whole series when they had it and they left me hanging as well with Yu Hasho when they chancelled that series. I got lucky with Rave Master SyFy picked it up and I was at least able to watch the first season at least but even they left me hanging with Starblasters when they ax anime night. Since neither Manga.com or Anime Network haven't answer my email I sent them asking why I can't stream anime from their websites and I am block from using their websites because I live in Puerto Rico could you answer that question. By the way Shonensunday.com and Funimation Channel did the same when I was streaming InYasha :The Final Act and Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood. Puerto Rico is a US territory and we use the same money and postal system and are under the same Federal Laws what gives. Thanks for ANN and HULU I can stream from them at least Mad

Who knows. I still don't know why we cling onto your little island at all these days.

enurtsol wrote:
CN finished Yu Yu Hakusho at like 5:30 in the morning.

Which doesn't surprise me with the years we all had to put up with that one.
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enurtsol



Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 14761
PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 10:08 pm Reply with quote
Mirri wrote:
enurtsol wrote:
marcos torres toledo wrote:
Cartoon Network forgot to show the whole series when they had it and they left me hanging as well with Yu Hasho when they chancelled that series.


CN finished Yu Yu Hakusho at like 5:30 in the morning.


Yep, Cartoon Network put Yu Yu Hakusho in to the timeslot of death, 5:30AM on Friday morning. It's where their anime goes to die.


Well, at least they finished it, instead of leaving its fans hanging. People just DVR anyways, like otaku DVR 3am anime in Japan.
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doc-watson42
Encyclopedia Editor


Joined: 10 Feb 2003
Posts: 1708
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 3:01 am Reply with quote
Answerman wrote:
But you are correct; the bulk of animation production shifted to digital ink-and-paint in the early 2000's, simply because the tools and technology were finally able to catch up to the clean, vibrant look of paint on sheets of celluloid.

See also "The Impacts of Computers on Anime" by J. Thompson (1999) at The Right Stuf International, especially:

Quote:
There's a problem with the acetate used by the Japanese industry ... it's not easily available due to a production shortage (and yes, it's just different enough from the substrate the rest of the world uses) and the story goes that it's now being sourced outside of Japan. There's even a rumor that the cel paint itself may become difficult to obtain, due to the imminent retirement of a very senior chemist.

:::

Sunday Silence wrote:
Whereas FLCL has 8 total episodes

Six, actually.
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ZeetherKID77



Joined: 17 Jun 2007
Posts: 981
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 12:53 pm Reply with quote
You guys are forgetting that Fate/Zero is streaming whereas KnK wasn't (at least not until AFTER the expensive as hell BD boxset was released). It would be stupid to have something like that after people watched the series online.
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fireaxe



Joined: 07 Jul 2006
Posts: 503
Location: Trois-Rivieres, Canada
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 1:04 pm Reply with quote
ZeetherKID77 wrote:
You guys are forgetting that Fate/Zero is streaming whereas KnK wasn't (at least not until AFTER the expensive as hell BD boxset was released). It would be stupid to have something like that after people watched the series online.
Hmm, and the logic behind this is...? Actually I think it would be the other way around...
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bemused Bohemian



Joined: 09 Jun 2009
Posts: 404
Location: central Mizzou (Moral Oralville)
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 1:15 pm Reply with quote
Amazon.co.jp is taking pre-orders for Fate/Zero Blu-ray disc box with promise that if price declines Amazon.com.jp will sell this item to you the buyer for that particular price.

Release date is currently promised for March 7, 2012 with price currently set at 26358 Yen ($365.30 USD according to today's Google currency converter) plus shipping.

I can't read Japanese either but Microsoft does have an English translator software feature which did enable me to formulate a reasonable interpretation from the Amazon.com.jp ad whether I wanted to pre-order or not.

Possibly Rightstuf will offer this release; possibly not. In the event the latter situation becomes the reality at least I'm covered with the Amazon.com.jp pre-order. And if I can figure out the intrepretive ad likely you can too if you simply must have this dvd release.
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Megiddo



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 8360
Location: IL
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 1:30 pm Reply with quote
configspace wrote:
They themselves know they can't use this approach as a general rule, hence the opposite/low US priced box-set strategy with Blue Exorcist, Oreimo, Star Driver, A-Channel etc.

First, A-Channel is a Sentai release and I believe Star Driver is Bandai.

Second, they could have done the same release for PMMM as they did for Oreimo and Blue Exorcist. Only then we would have people whining about how Aniplex USA doesn't do Bluray releases and/or dubs. So yeah, DVD sub-only sets are no problem for Aniplex USA. However, BD releases have the unfortunate impact on their (vastly more important) domestic Japanese anime sales. Hell, I'm amazed we got Madoka for relatively so cheap on BD so soon. I would have anticipated at least another year.

I'm expecting a near-simultaneous release of Fate/Zero by Aniplex USA. Probably around $200-$250 per half-set (not MSRP).
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agila61



Joined: 22 Feb 2009
Posts: 3213
Location: NE Ohio
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 3:09 pm Reply with quote
ZeetherKID77 wrote:
You guys are forgetting that Fate/Zero is streaming whereas KnK wasn't (at least not until AFTER the expensive as hell BD boxset was released). It would be stupid to have something like that after people watched the series online.


Since when is not having a legit streaming the same as people not being able to watch the series online? The decision that the rights owners are making is between offering legit competition to bootleg distributions or leaving bootleg distributions as the sole source for seasonal streaming.

If it affects the market, it affects the lower end of the market ~ as I believe it does, and also believe that the positive effects outweighs the negative effects, for a net positive impact. But at the high end, people are not spending multiple $100's on a series "to find out how it ends", so I very much doubt that simulcast streaming has any negative impact at all. Its just "not the same thing" in the minds of buyers in the high end of the market, so there is no market spoiler effect.
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leafy sea dragon



Joined: 27 Oct 2009
Posts: 7163
Location: Another Kingdom
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 5:43 pm Reply with quote
Something I'd like to point out: The Simpsons stuck to cels for as long as they could. I forgot where I heard it, but in one of the commentary tracks, someone said that they only switched to digital when they could no longer find a place to buy cels from. That makes me wonder: If Sazae-san still uses traditional cels, why can't Gracie Studios get cels from wherever the Sazae-san guys are getting them from?

Sunday Silence wrote:

Another factor that you forgot to figure in is that since it's too short, the amount of repetition lends itself to make viewers get disgusted by it.


I'd beg to differ on that. Each episode has so much crammed into it that when I finished the series, I felt compelled to watch through it again to make more sense of what I just saw. I think plenty of others felt the same way too. FLCL is a series meant to be re-watched. That's part of why it's so short.

That, and FLCL is a comedy series, and I wouldn't be surprised if people tuning in to the Williams Street stuff decide to stick around for it too. It's the closest equivalent in the action lineup to Adult Swim's homemade humor. (More so than Super Milk-chan, personally).

kakoishii wrote:
I do have to question releasing it by volumes though. No one does that anymore. And with a series as short as Madoka I don't see a reason why they aren't just releasing a complete set, or at the very least a half box set.


You might not buy in volumes (and I don't either), but enough people do, apparently, to sell them as volumes first. They're going to release season sets later on, when the people who want the shows NOW at any price have been satiated to cater to the also-substantial potential audience who want that show but at a lower price.

So basically, the choices for a company are 1) Sell the immediate video release for high prices for the super-fans and then sell the box sets for everyone else, which the super-fans will likely also buy for the extras, or 2) Sell the box sets for the super-fans and everyone else. Option 1 is the more profitable of the bunch, which is why they do it.

enurtsol wrote:
Well, at least they finished it, instead of leaving its fans hanging. People just DVR anyways, like otaku DVR 3am anime in Japan.


Even that doesn't work sometimes, when they would (and still do) change when a show would air without any notice. In the case of SyFy, they employ a number of techniques to stop people from recording their programs to watch later for some reason (including showing everything a minute early or a minute late and placing their commercial break bumpers in the MIDDLE of a break, which the recorders detect, so you'd lose chunks of your show).
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