Forum - View topicNEWS: "Otaku" Murderer Tsutomu Miyazaki Executed on Tuesday
|
Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 Next Note: this is the discussion thread for this article |
| Author | Message | |||||||||||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Steel Angel
 Posts: 274 Location: Texas |
|
|||||||||||||||||
It's only revenge when the person who has a connection to the criminal and victim. It is justice when those who uphold law and order "of the land" deal said punishment. There's a big difference. I wonder how many of those fathers would have given body parts up if they could have had just 5 mins. alone in a room with him? That's why the law doesn't allow it, revenge is not part of the equation. |
||||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||||
|
Case
Posts: 1016 |
|
|||||||||||||||||
I've studied ethics formally in the classroom, and while I'm not ready to go out on a limb and say that capital punishment is absolutely wrong, I agree completely with the second point. Maybe the death penalty is necessary. I don't know. But cheering on a person's death is completely pointless and does, as someone already pointed out, speak volumes about the poster. Maybe Japan's stereotype of otaku isn't so wrong. You posters who celebrated this story scare the shit out of me. I think it might be a good idea to pack up my things and move into the mountains where I can be sure I'll never meet one of you.
Whose duty to terminate? Would you like to take care of that, for "society?" It's easy to kill someone, isn't it, when you can somehow shield yourself from their humanity? Mass murders can do it because they're desperate or mentally ill; you can do it because you can leave the killing of the killer to "society".
"Proved," nothing. Don't play games with fact and opinion. Just because you think he should die doesn't mean such as been proved. Judges and juries exist for a reason; there is almost always choice in the fate of the convicted.
Money is never a valid criteria for a government to weigh life and death. How would you like to get popped off tomorrow because the city can't pay its bills and your house takes the least gas money to get to? |
||||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||||
RMC
 Posts: 101 Location: Waco, TX |
|
|||||||||||||||||
I would like to redirect you here for an accurate observation of the Sixth Commandment. Speaking as a Christian Apologist who has studied this for years, people are usually very ignorant that the KJV translation is inaccurate and a better English translation for it would be, "Thou shalt not commit murder". Murder, according to the Bible, is defined as "unlawfully taking another's life". Not all killing is murder, though murder is definitely killing. I sincerely disagree with Abunai's opinion on this topic, though I do respect his opinion. I don't consider killing wrong, but I do consider murder wrong. And indeed, going through the lawful due process procedures of your country and being given the death penalty is in no way murder; it is not wrong. It is the collective decision of society that says, "This person's crime is so heinous that they cannot be allowed to live and thrive in this atmosphere, because they are poisonous to society as a whole." |
||||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||||
|
TornadoTatsumaki
Posts: 145 Location: Mission Bend,Texas |
|
|||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||||
|
mlund
Posts: 60 |
|
|||||||||||||||||
You have free will, so you have to decide things for yourself. That doesn't mean you've automatically made an informed, responsible, or well-reasoned decision - or even put in a decent effort into doing so. From the lenses of disciplines like Literature, Communications, Anthropology, History, or even Theology that argument won't get you very far. If you can't see how the quality of translation and the historical context of a piece of literature is important to reading comprehension then we are at an impasse.
Well, if you'd examine the Pentateuch, you'd see many instances where God Himself kills those in the wrong. Moreover, in the laws he gives to Israel and the instructions He gives to the prophets there are many instructions to execute those who committed grave transgressions.
No, I've read several different versions and their Old Testament's jive quite well. The New Testament offers a New Covenant and new guidance that preaches the fulfillment of the Old Covenant through Christ - perfecting of what was once imperfect law now becoming perfect life. But the Ten Commandments people keep abusing and misquoting are not in the Gospel. They are in the Pentateuch and not everyone who believes in the Hebrew God and the Ten Commandments accepts the New Testament or Jesus. Moses, to whom God gave those Commandments, was very clear on the notion that they prohibited murder - not "killing." Sometimes Christians and Anglo-phones forget that they didn't invent those Commandments.
As I've already illustrated, this isn't evidence of "another one of its great contradictions," so much as evidence of ignorance of at least certain parts of the Bible as either Scripture or Literature. - Marty Lund Last edited by mlund on Tue Jun 17, 2008 7:04 pm; edited 1 time in total |
||||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||||
Murasakisuishou
 Posts: 1469 Location: NE Ohio |
|
|||||||||||||||||
If I was asked to kill someone who had killed another person, you can bet I'd do it. I have no respect for anyone who takes a life unjustly. But why is this suddenly about me?
Where did I say that my opinion was law? Abunai posted with his views, and I felt compelled to respond back with mine. I believe that anyone who kills someone without proper provocation (like in self defense), is lower than dirt, and to me, you who advocate for keeping them alive are as irrational as you seem to think I am. No one's thoughts are deciding national policy here.
....What does that even have to do with anything? |
||||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||||
MokonaModoki
 Posts: 437 Location: Austin, Texas |
|
|||||||||||||||||
plus...
may equal...
The inherent difficulty with a vigorous defense of capital punishment is that it inevitably reveals just this sort of cognitive dissonance (i.e. "Killing another person is a terrible terrible thing. I'd be happy to do it if someone asked me too.") I'm sure no one is that terribly unhappy that this guy is dead, but glee for it leads down a slippery slope. Capital punishment often is very very wrong, as exemplified by the continuing execution (by stoning!) of women in Iran for the crime of adultery. The problem lies not in the extreme cases, but in the fact that no government, court, or jury can accurately draw a line which prevents capital punishment from possibly being abused or wrongfully applied. Even in that paradigm of justice (*snort), the United States, we have many people being freed from death row every year by the efforts of organizations like the Innocence Project. |
||||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||||
Batman3777
 Posts: 160 Location: Down the Shore, NJ |
|
|||||||||||||||||
|
Ummm, maybe some of you aren't fully aware of what this thing did, but I will not recount his horrific acts here on these forums. Suffice it to say, we are not talking about even an average murderer here, we are talking about a very sick and ultimately very dangerous individual. The death penalty is most definitely warranted in this case. To keep him alive would have been dangerous (people escape from prison, just ask Afghanistan), and an absolute insult to the victims' families, and an abomination unto the law.
If you cannot tell the difference between what Tsutomu Miyazaki did and what capital punishment is, well, then, I frankly do not know what else to say to you. Now that he's dead, maybe everyone connected to these horrors can rest in peace. God help me, I have no clue how the parents of those girls can live with the kind of grief they must face. They're far stronger people than I am. |
||||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||||
|
GATSU
Posts: 15306 |
|
|||||||||||||||||
|
Murasaki:
Hitler used the same argument...
Actually, that kind of argument has been debunked. More here and here.
The upside is that you can learn how to prevent similar crimes sooner than if you just execute the perp without giving him/her a chance to reflect.
Those articles I linked said otherwise.
I dunno. The fact that he wasn't in his right mind?
Wikipedia seems to disagree with you on that one.
You're assuming you can be 100% sure that that person did in fact kill. cam:
So when's your church going to pay for the Crusades and the dead Indians and Iraqis? Steel:
It works if the people being executed are black and/or mentally retarded. It doesn't work in terms of less rednecks shooting each other. |
||||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||||
|
Monsieur Pink
Posts: 141 |
|
|||||||||||||||||
Christian crusades in India? Never heard of it. |
||||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||||
|
HellKorn
Posts: 1669 Location: Columbus, OH |
|
|||||||||||||||||
Majority rule isn't the best place to point, either. You've had plenty of laws and beliefs over the course of history that have proven to be unreliable and negative.
Fair enough. Though frequently they're placing their emotions ("The only way to give justice to the berieved is to kill the murderer!") ahead of what is more humane (not committing more murder). Truthfully, I do not see how we should not attempt to rehabilitate murderers, either. Certainly you cannot do that with all of them, nor succeed all or even most of the time, but that doesn't mean a tries should not be attempted.
How is it justice, though? Please, you or anyone on here, explain it to me how it logically is beneficial to society.
Vicarious revenge. How does killing a person positively impact others?
Define "work." I mean, can you point to concrete evidence that goes beyond a mere correlation and actually shows that killing criminals decreases crime and increases safety?
So it's alright to kill someone if they kill others. That means it's also right to steal from others if they've stolen themselves.
Gatsu may be referring to Native Americans. |
||||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||||
|
Steel Angel
Posts: 274 Location: Texas |
|
|||||||||||||||||
Uninformed, and of oh so little resources. All your links have other places and studies that deny those. Finding and posting links that support only your view does not a fact it make. Try doing something besides trolling Gatsu. |
||||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||||
|
Monsieur Pink
Posts: 141 |
|
|||||||||||||||||
 I was just highlighting Gatsu's "mistake", because Native Americans tend to get really irritated when you call them Indians, I should know my closest friends are. But of course on their identity card they are labeled as such (Indian that is), it's pretty freaking funny. Anyways, I was just trying to provide a little bit lighthearted-ness in this dark, dark thread. 
|
||||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||||
|
Steel Angel
Posts: 274 Location: Texas |
|
|||||||||||||||||
Uninformed, and of oh so little resources. All your links have other places and studies that deny those. Like here or here. The numbers are there. Population went up, but so does crime by an even larger margin. Prison systems that are currently in use, have not had a major positive impact in rehabilitation. The numbers for repeat offenders are quite staggering. As for my state, care to guess what year(s) both the death penalty and gun laws went into effect? Look at the ratios: here Try doing something besides trolling Gatsu. Last edited by Steel Angel on Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:37 pm; edited 1 time in total |
||||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||||
|
GATSU
Posts: 15306 |
|
|||||||||||||||||
|
Steel Angel: Actually, your last link says that Texas violent crime went up, even though it's the death penalty capital of the country.
|
||||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group