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Crawly
Joined: 19 Feb 2006
Posts: 204
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 Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 8:13 am
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| HellKorn wrote: | | Very likable characters (Mihashi may not have the depth of Shinji Ikari and is actualyl a cry baby, but he grows on ya)... |
Just because Shinji's name is being thrown around, let's say someone despised Eva primarily because they found Shinji to be an annoying git (not even Megumi Ogata could save the character). Same said person doesn't actually mind crybabies, just never warmed up to Shinji and found him to be pretty mundane and standard among anime characters without the depth most Eva fans profess he has. Because I... er, this person was actually kind of interested in the series until she was brought up short by this comparison.
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Crawly
Joined: 19 Feb 2006
Posts: 204
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Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 8:22 am
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| falloutgal wrote: | | Question: why does sports anime not fare well state-side? |
We don't really know that it doesn't, simply because there hasn't been enough released here to make a good comparative sample. The only two I can think of are Princess Nine (shoujo) and Fighting Spirit (looooong and not typical 13 yr old boy shounen). Neither series was the type that sells well to begin with even without the sports angle. I guess Yawara could be considered sports anime? But that's also long, old by today's standards, and it's only available online. That does not make for a winning combination, though it's typical Animego and the reason we love them so much.
Quick edit: Just remembered Prince of Tennis! I have no idea how well that sold, but Viz canned it after handicapping it with some edits. I know it didn't sell at Inu Yasha levels because it's not that kind of show, but without those kind of numbers, Viz will cancel a title. Slam Dunk was another, but the Toei release was unwatchable, so naturally sales tanked.
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enurtsol
Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 14755
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Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 2:14 am
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| Crawly wrote: |
| falloutgal wrote: | | Question: why does sports anime not fare well state-side? |
We don't really know that it doesn't, simply because there hasn't been enough released here to make a good comparative sample. The only two I can think of are Princess Nine (shoujo) and Fighting Spirit (looooong and not typical 13 yr old boy shounen). Neither series was the type that sells well to begin with even without the sports angle. I guess Yawara could be considered sports anime? But that's also long, old by today's standards, and it's only available online. That does not make for a winning combination, though it's typical Animego and the reason we love them so much.
Quick edit: Just remembered Prince of Tennis! I have no idea how well that sold, but Viz canned it after handicapping it with some edits. I know it didn't sell at Inu Yasha levels because it's not that kind of show, but without those kind of numbers, Viz will cancel a title. Slam Dunk was another, but the Toei release was unwatchable, so naturally sales tanked. |
Sports anime can be sold to the mainstream in Japan.
Sports anime can only be sold to otaku in America, but otaku are allergic to sports. 
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Crawly
Joined: 19 Feb 2006
Posts: 204
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Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 5:52 am
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| enurtsol wrote: | Sports anime can only be sold to otaku in America, but otaku are allergic to sports. |
Ah, but most anime can only be sold to otaku in the US. Very few shows have mainstream appeal or even get the kind of exposure they'd need to reach anyone outside otakudom. And while otaku don't like to play sports, they don't mind watching (check out all the football talk that goes on at AoD, for example). 
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HellKorn
Joined: 03 Oct 2006
Posts: 1669
Location: Columbus, OH
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Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 6:53 pm
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| Crawly wrote: | | Just because Shinji's name is being thrown around, let's say someone despised Eva primarily because they found Shinji to be an annoying git (not even Megumi Ogata could save the character). Same said person doesn't actually mind crybabies, just never warmed up to Shinji and found him to be pretty mundane and standard among anime characters without the depth most Eva fans profess he has. Because I... er, this person was actually kind of interested in the series until she was brought up short by this comparison. |
"Mundane and standard among anime characters?"
Discussion of NGE is deserving of another thread, but I don't see how a person could typify Shinji -- or Mihashi, by extension. If you don't like the character, that's your perogative, but that doesn't take away from the fact that they are developed and examined to the point where a willing person can understand why they act the way they do. They aren't throwaway hero stereotypes absent of believable human qualities -- in fact, they're the opposite. They're young teenagers attempting to deal with difficulties that have the odds heavily stacked against them (or the weight of the world, in Shinji's case). Very, very few people are mature enough as it is at the age of 14 to 16, yet those characters still step up to do their "duty" in spite of how others around them either hate and/or use them. (Though, Mihashi is a bit exaggerated in parts.)
As for sports anime not selling well in the United States: don't like to generalize, but a fair share of anime fans are not the type to take interest in sports. Beyond that, it's also a rare example of an anime/manga to do justice to the sport it is depicting; Fighting Spirit is one, as is Ookiku Furikabutte. Slam Dunk, from what I've read, is another one (also can't forget Inoue's REAL, though that is more of a human drama). But then you have super-powered, laughable representations ala Prince of Tennis that are primarily carried on by gimmicks.
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Lord Geo
Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 2544
Location: North Brunswick, New Jersey
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Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 9:16 pm
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| HellKorn wrote: | | But then you have super-powered, laughable representations ala Prince of Tennis that are primarily carried on by gimmicks. |
But for the most part, titles like Prince of Tennis and Ring ni Kakero are not meant ot be fully realistic representations of the sports they use. They do use realistic moves and styles as a base, but they go for more of a stylistic way of handling the sports. Sometimes I do wonder if some people feel that a sports manga and/or anime can only be enjoyable if they are realistic, because that is certainly not true.
I like titles like Fighting Spirit/Hajime no Ippo, Ashita no Joe, and Oofuri (or at least what I saw of it) for their realistic takes on sports. But I also like titles like PoT and RnK because they are fun takes on sports, and seeing the different stylistic takes on the sports is what makes them enjoyable.
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Hon'ya-chan
Joined: 31 Jul 2007
Posts: 973
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Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 7:24 am
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| enurtsol wrote: | Sports anime can only be sold to otaku in America, but otaku are allergic to sports. |
Initial D would like to talk to you.
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Crawly
Joined: 19 Feb 2006
Posts: 204
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Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:39 am
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| HellKorn wrote: | | "Mundane and standard among anime characters?" |
Yes. And I'm always amused at how upset that makes the Eva fans.
| Quote: | | Discussion of NGE is deserving of another thread, but I don't see how a person could typify Shinji -- or Mihashi, by extension. If you don't like the character, that's your perogative... |
Which is exactly why I asked. I hate Shinji. He was an annoying git, the typical teenage angsty hero - prototype, stereotype, you choose the word, but he's no longer anything unique (if he was to begin with). If the protagonist of this series is very much like him in personality, there's little chance I'll be able to get past it enough to enjoy the show. My opinion, yes. Again, that's why I asked, because someone else compared them.
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HellKorn
Joined: 03 Oct 2006
Posts: 1669
Location: Columbus, OH
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Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 6:32 pm
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| Lord Geo wrote: | | Sometimes I do wonder if some people feel that a sports manga and/or anime can only be enjoyable if they are realistic, because that is certainly not true. |
I enjoy the Eyeshield 21 manga, but, unlike Prince of Tennis, there's an actual emphasis on characterization and having pure fun with the series as opposed to a super-powered bishounen fest.
| Crawly wrote: | Yes. And I'm always amused at how upset that makes the Eva fans. |
Not upset (at least in my case), just genuinely puzzled.
| Quote: | | [Shinji] was an annoying git, the typical teenage angsty hero - prototype, stereotype, you choose the word, but he's no longer anything unique (if he was to begin with). |
Eh, penguintruth has already covered these topics before, but whatever.
Archetypes are not the same as stereotypes. Giving proper dimensions to a humanly flawed persona does not a bad character make. If that was the case, then the majority of classic literature would be utterly forgettable.
Anyhow, Mihashi cries very frequently (compared to Shinji's outbursts of being used and others' lives being put in danger), so going by your tolerance then yes, you'll probably not enjoy the series.
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mdo7
Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 6253
Location: Katy, Texas, USA
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Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 9:31 am
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| enurtsol wrote: |
| Crawly wrote: |
| falloutgal wrote: | | Question: why does sports anime not fare well state-side? |
We don't really know that it doesn't, simply because there hasn't been enough released here to make a good comparative sample. The only two I can think of are Princess Nine (shoujo) and Fighting Spirit (looooong and not typical 13 yr old boy shounen). Neither series was the type that sells well to begin with even without the sports angle. I guess Yawara could be considered sports anime? But that's also long, old by today's standards, and it's only available online. That does not make for a winning combination, though it's typical Animego and the reason we love them so much.
Quick edit: Just remembered Prince of Tennis! I have no idea how well that sold, but Viz canned it after handicapping it with some edits. I know it didn't sell at Inu Yasha levels because it's not that kind of show, but without those kind of numbers, Viz will cancel a title. Slam Dunk was another, but the Toei release was unwatchable, so naturally sales tanked. |
Sports anime can be sold to the mainstream in Japan.
Sports anime can only be sold to otaku in America, but otaku are allergic to sports. |
true man. But there are a lot of people who are sport/athlete are becoming curious to these sport anime. I'm both a baseball fan and a anime fan, I've been waiting for a baseball anime to come out. I know a person who is both athlete and a anime fan. I can also bet that when Initial D came out, racing fan was curious of it. They probably read the manga and watch the anime probably became a anime addict. You see anime are growing not only to otaku but to people who are a big fan of sport. Harem anime has become a pimp's favorite. Same thing happen to Eyeshield 21 anime/manga. even NFL took notice of that anime. I wonder if they can do a surfing manga/anime and a cheerleader anime/manga (Just long if it has fanservice for male reader).
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