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How much of the top 50 do you feel actually deserve their high rating?


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Sohma_Curse



Joined: 07 Dec 2012
Posts: 512
Location: New York
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 7:50 pm Reply with quote
Of what you've seen, of course.

I'm a latecomer to anime, but I've seen probably 50 complete series in the past year and have a huge amount in my personal queue. Many of the ones I've seen and/or am waiting to see were selected based on their rankings on this site.

Based on what I've seen so far (and their rankings), I was a little let down by:

(disclaimer: I don't read any manga and I only watch dubs for various reasons)

Cowboy Bebop - Good, but not as incredible as I imagined one of the most highly-lauded anime of all time would be. The story was cool, the visuals were awesome, but it lacked a certain element of cohesiveness and didn't draw me in like other anime have. I also had a hard time connecting with some of the main cast members and didn't find some of their backstories to be all that revealing or interesting. I was hoping for more of a serial flow as opposed to the procedural, self-contained episode nature of the series.

Summer Wars - A real disappointment. Based on its synopsis, I was expecting more of a comedic love story, but instead got a mish-mosh of cyber terrorism and family bonding. Character exposition/development takes a back seat to the overbearing central focus of an internet social network gone haywire (and threatening to bring upon nuclear annihilation, if one can believe it). Not a BAD film, by any means, just not at all like what it's described as. Great animation, though.

The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya - EXTREMELY disappointing. Annoyingly generic and flat characters doing random things while all the awesome storylines the show introduces are given ZERO attention after the halfway point and are ultimately just left with all their loose ends untied. The show set up some really cool sci-fi/fantasy sub-plots, but, in the fashion of its ADHD-stricken protagonist, those storyline elements are abandoned without explanation as the show's tone and pace bizarrely change course with each subsequent episode. People say they love this show for the characters and not the plot (or lack there of), but the characters are so typical and unmemorable that I have a hard time understanding what makes them so endearing to everyone. The show isn't without its charms though, and there a handful of really good episodes in the series, but unfortunately, again, the cool and interesting sub-plots those good episodes set up never get resolved or even slightly moved forward. (note - I watched the show in the DVD order which some have told me likely contributed to the awkward pacing)

Baccano! - The jumbled storytelling coupled with the large cast of characters that all have different motives and subplots going on made this a rather difficult watch that I really wanted to enjoy, but my confusion of certain events and unresolved issues is unfortunately the main thing I took away from this show. There's just so much going on to keep track of, so many characters that are seemingly insignificant that apparently mean much more to the story that you originally think, and so many events that seem like major turning points that turn out to be nothing at all. I will attempt a re-watch at some point, which may help clear a few things up, but I don't think it will help this show live up to the hype. Good, but not top-50 good.

Fullmetal Alchemist - Started out strong, then stalled and dragged. Some of the characters can get a little irksome, some of the dialogue gets repetitive, and it was annoying to keep track of everything I was seeing because this show had a tendency to recall things/people without reminding me of what their original capacity was. There's a lot to digest at first, and a re-watch could be a little tedious if I try to do so too soon after finishing. Despite all this, there is still something about it that makes it charming and I would still consider it essential to watch at least once.

And what I think deserves their praise:

Clannad/After Story - An unequivocal masterpiece of animation. Just no other way to put it. Never before has an animated series (or a live-action one, for that matter) taken me through such a gamut of emotion like Clannad has. The show is exquisitely animated, the story is intriguing and multi-faceted, the music is beautiful and appropriately used, the characters are grounded and relatable, and the voice-dubbing is some of the best I've seen/heard. Funny, romantic, sentimental, touching, dramatic, heart-wrenching, and a little bit supernatural...everything I'm looking for.

Mushi-shi - A haunting, yet whimsical masterpiece. This is where the procedural approach of laying out each story individually works where I felt Cowboy Bebop failed. The marvelously animated world that seems to lie somewhere between ours and the spiritual was captured beautifully. The fantastic soundtrack heightens the ambiance and atmosphere of this incredible series.

I've Started and/or almost finished:

Code Geass, Monster

And I've got these in my queue:

Steins;Gate, FMA Brotherhood, Rurouni Kenshin: Trust & Betrayal, Code Geass R2, Spirited Away, Death Note, Kanon, Kino's Journey


Last edited by Sohma_Curse on Mon Apr 15, 2013 8:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Rhyono



Joined: 03 Dec 2011
Posts: 1039
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 7:56 pm Reply with quote
I can see this turning into an all out war quickly. Laughing

I'm not going to get involved in it, but I can say that several on the list you haven't watched do deserve to be in the top 50.
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rheiders



Joined: 05 Jul 2011
Posts: 1137
Location: Colorful Colorado :)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 9:02 pm Reply with quote
Ahaha, this thread should be fun to watch. Laughing

All I'll say is that there are many on that list that I would rate very highly and just as many that I wouldn't. Ratings mean very little to me in determining what I will watch. I'd rather choose anime to watch based on the recommendations of people I trust or an interesting synopsis than the whims of random strangers on the Internet. Also, the lack of Princess Tutu disturbs me. :<

I will say that I strongly disagree with you on several of them, though. Baccano! is actually my favorite series right now, and I would consider FMA and Bebop masterpieces. Summer Wars is very good for what it is, and solidified Mamoru Hosoda as a director to watch for me.
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ssandulak



Joined: 10 Feb 2007
Posts: 128
Location: BC Canada
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 9:54 pm Reply with quote
Yeah, I loved all the shows you've watched...except the ones you listed as deserving their praise, oddly enough. Don't get me wrong, Clannad is very good, I just don't rate it as highly as some do. Ditto for Mushishi. Summer Wars I think is the weakest of Mamoru Hosoda's films, but that's like saying the weakest ghibli movie. It's still heads above most other things Very Happy
Baccano is one of my favourites as well. I like that it's a frantic pace, but it still manages to (by the end) tie everything together. Admittedly the first time, I lost track of a couple characters but it's all there, just going at a blistering speed.
Haruhi DVD order is sort of meh. I found the broadcast order much better, because it actually climaxes properly. I watched it as it was airing, and didn't know they'd even redone the order until I got the DVD's. Some of the best little easter eggs are found watching it in the broadcast order because little things pop up earlier that you're not sure what happened there, but it's explained eventually and a little eureka moment happens.
Looking at your upcoming list though...I'd definitely say those all deserve to be on there. Though I wasn't a huge fan of Kanon, and Kino's Journey has ups and downs.
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Keichitsu0305





PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:37 pm Reply with quote
Rhyono wrote:
I can see this turning into an all out war quickly. Laughing


Where's that popcorn gif when you need it!?!

Honestly, this thread is just going to be filled with people bitching and moaning about how their personal favorite anime(s) is "being attacked" or "the rankings never matter in the first place" or *whine*whine*whine*whine*whine*whine* for a good 10 pages. No offense but, I don't foresee any constructive or meaningful discussion coming from this and, personally, I would just lock this thread before things get ugly.

The rankings are just that: data. Nothing about the Top 50 tells me anything substantial about the series other than "Wow, this many people who have an ANN account must really liked this show". Its as worthless to me than some random Japanese fanpoll Crunchyroll always posts just to ruffle some feathers.
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EricJ



Joined: 03 Sep 2009
Posts: 876
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:43 pm Reply with quote
I haven't seen this ANN Top 50 of which you speak, but if it's anything user-submitted like the IMDB Top 100, it's probably going to end up as a sad joke of niche fandoms.
User-submitted fan lists tend to be shouting contests of fan loyalty, usually be the most loyal sub-groups, and often by those new kids who just discovered their favorite as one of their first series.
(Not unlike the IMDB kids who cram the lists with Chris Nolan's complete filmography. And the IMDB Bottom 100 is even worse, basically a labor-of-devotion hangout for fanboys to cram the list with SyFy-era MST3K episodes and Rotten Tomatoes legends.)

Not to mention, those born after the Internet was invented, and are more likely to mention their current 00's-10's cable/streaming favorite, than to take an entire cross-section from the 80's and 90's onwards, on any kind of straightforward judging criteria. The minute Summer Wars showed up on the list, that pretty pegged it as the "Everything I've Heard Of" list.
That's why you should always leave the lists to the professionals. Cool
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dtm42



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 14084
Location: currently stalking my waifu
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:45 pm Reply with quote
I assume this is all based on the Bayesian rankings.

Well then . . .

Of the top fifty*, I've watched thirty-eight in full and two in part. Of those, only a scant eleven are titles that I believe are good enough to deserve to be in the top fifty or so. Most tellingly, only one of the titles in the top ten - Cowboy Bebop - deserves to even be in the top fifty.



*
Both of Time of Eve versions - ONA and movie - are listed in the top fifty. They have pretty much the same content, and so I consider them as a single title. Therefore, because the same content is listed twice, and because I didn't count them individually but as one title, I have included the fifty-first title (Clannad) in order to make fifty.


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DerekTheRed



Joined: 19 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:09 pm Reply with quote
Top 50 for those wondering.

I've seen 14 of them fully and 2 in part. You'll notice that there are a lot of sequels/remakes/side stories, (Maria watches over us 2-4, FMA:B, Code Geass 2, Natsume's book of friends 2-4, Hajime no Ippo: New Challenger, Clannad After Story, Disappearance of Haruhi Suzumiya, Eva 2.0, Honey and Clover 2, Kanon remake, and I would include Cross Game because it's the nth version of Adaichi's story). It's been discussed in the Encyclopedia or Bugs and Technical subform that these types of shows tend to rank high because the only people who watch them are those who saw and liked the original, and thus they skew high. You'll notice that the first Maria Watches Over Us and Natsume's Book of Friends aren't listed. This is definitely true for me with Hajime no Ippo. The second series isn't that great, but I'm one of the people skewing it high because I like Fighting Spirit.

Speaking of Fighting Spirit, I was surprised to see it on the list. I would wager that most other sites wouldn't have it in the top 500, but I think Justin Sevakis has championed it around here.
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ikillchicken



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:26 pm Reply with quote
Depends what you mean. If you mean which deserve to be in the top 50 and ranked where they are...very few.

Bebop is definitely a top ten title. So is Princess Mononoke. Baccano seems appropriately ranked as well. I like that show a lot but it also has enough problems that something in the 30s seems appropriate. Same goes for Time of Eve. I'm not quite as enamoured with that show as others but I still quite like it. Top 40 something seems appropriate.

Also, if you just mean which titles belong in the top fifty but not necessarily at that rank then I can also add a few more:
-Trust and Betrayal probably deserves to be up there just not quite at 4th overall. It definitely ought to be below Bebop and Mononoke.
-Mushishi too...a pretty good show. Definitely top 50 material. Just not quite that high.
-Conversely, Ghost in the Shell SAC definitely deserves to be higher, at least in the top 20.
So yeah, that's 5/50 (10%) that deserve their rank and 8/50 (16%) that deserve to be somewhere in the top 50.

Also though, there are a lot of titles on there that I haven't yet seen but that hardly seem out of place given what I've heard (Bunny Drop, Monster, Mononoke, Kino's Journey, Kids on the Slope, Grave of the Fireflies, Girl Who Leapt Through Time, Legend of the Galactic Heroes). Hence, one could easily see that number double depending on how these shows pan out.

So yeah, that's actually not bad. Considering how utterly random and meaningless these kinds of rankings are, it's actually a little surprising to see as many as 20-30% actually deserving to be there.
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Rahxephon91



Joined: 08 Jun 2003
Posts: 1859
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:47 pm Reply with quote
Not at all as far as my opinion goes.

Brotherhood to me is a solid series, but not as good as the first series. It's too shonen fighting anime for me. Now way it should be higher.

You got stuff that looks uninteresting to me like Clanned and Steins Gate. Whatever, I'm just not the audience for that kind of anime.

I mean the list even rates Code Geass highly and while I 'like' CG, it is not a good series. It's a so bad it's good, but the show is so inherently written that it's funny.

The thing is, this list has way to many new things and not even new things that I think are good like Fate Zero or Blood C, no it's got stuff like Clanned and Kids on the Slope. Kids was a good series, but in the end largely forgettable.

Really the only anime that seems right are Princess Princess Mononoke and Cowboy Bebop. It's nice to see older and more obscure series like LOGH, but really it's quite obvious this list represents the anime fan of today, and well that's not really the fan I am and well these kind of shows or what pushed me away from anime. It's good to see Gurren Lagann on the list, but it should be higher. Where's Ghost in the Shell? Macross Plus, Giant Robo? Megazone? How the hell are the inferior Eva movies over the tv show? Eh it's not my list that's for sure.


Last edited by Rahxephon91 on Tue Apr 16, 2013 7:30 am; edited 1 time in total
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walw6pK4Alo



Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 9322
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:54 am Reply with quote
Often what happens on rating sites is the "sequel phenomenon" or whatever you wanna call it. A certain group watches the first season, or first incarnate of a title, and it's good, so it's decently rated. Then a sequel comes by, and the pool of people who move onto it is smaller and more dedicated, but so long as the sequel is as good or better than what came first, it can receive a massively higher score. That's evidenced with Gintama and Natsume Yuujinchou, which while I like both, the resumptions they receive are vastly overrated. I think you can see the same in Marimite, Honey and Clover and a few others. It doesn't mean they're bad, but the way things are calculated (more dedicated, more inclined to vote high) I'm not sure they necessarily deserve their positions. You've removed those most likely to give lower scores. Like I'm sure Evangelion 3.33 will shoot up the top everywhere by virtue of it being the next Evangelion and having a devoted fanbase.

I'll say that Legend of the Galactic Heroes deservesto be near the top of anime list, it's one of the finest and grandest anime I've come across.

I've finished 35 of the 50 on the list, and am currently still going through some of the others. But really, there are thousands of anime, and hundreds of decent, good, or great titles out there. 50 is such a smaller number.
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Knoepfchen



Joined: 13 Dec 2012
Posts: 698
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 5:06 am Reply with quote
EricJ wrote:
I haven't seen this ANN Top 50 of which you speak, but if it's anything user-submitted like the IMDB Top 100, it's probably going to end up as a sad joke of niche fandoms.
User-submitted fan lists tend to be shouting contests of fan loyalty, usually be the most loyal sub-groups, and often by those new kids who just discovered their favorite as one of their first series.
(Not unlike the IMDB kids who cram the lists with Chris Nolan's complete filmography. [...] That's why you should always leave the lists to the professionals. Cool


Yeah, that IMDB list always makes me chuckle, too. Rolling Eyes

The question is, can something really be called "better" just because more people liked it. That would make Michael Bay's movies better than David Lynch's. I might want to argue about that. But how else could be decided what is "better", by the critics' opinions? There can never be any objectivity in judging art or entertainment, no matter if its fans or critics or how hard one tries to achieve it, everyone's biased by their own preferences, background, and expectations. The only thing one can hope to get out of such lists is some inspiration what to watch next and hope to be as entertained by it as a significant amount of other people were, nothing more. Since there is no truth here, why should we argue. Anime smile

It might be interesting to put in a 5 year barrier before a new show or film can appear in rankings like these, to evaluate the long term impact and value of a title. Will people still love it after some time has passed and new stuff (and other great) came out? Will they still talk about it? Will new people still be thrilled by it? That's obviously the case for classics such as Cowboy Bebop or Neon Genesis Evangelion and should earn them a place within such a top title list. But how can something from only last year be judged by those criteria?

If there were such a thing as one best anime of all time, for me it would not be Steins;Gate. It's a lovely show, I love the character designs and the characters themselves, and I'd rate it "excellent" for sure, but there are other shows out there that simply have more to offer for me. It certainly deserves to be in this list, but at the top? I don't know.

I'd certainly not rank Fullmetal Alchemist within the top 50, it's a good show that made me care a lot about the characters, but the pacing is anything but consistent.

Baccano! was good entertainment, but I feel like cringing seeing it above the spectacularly beautiful Mononoke. That's just not right.

If you look further down within the top 100, Howl's moving Castle is ranked above Puella Magi Madoka Magica. The second one is still quite young, but I am quite convinced it will leave (and already has left) it's mark on a scale much closer to EVA or Bebop than Howl could ever dream of.

Raxxephon91 wrote:
I mean the list even rates Code Geass highly and while I 'like' CG, it is not a good series. It's a so bad it's good, but the show is so inherently written that it's funny.


Mind numbing fanservice and product placement aside (or included?), I think Code Geass is a perfectly made product of entertainment. I'd be reluctant to call it a piece of art, but it's entertainment value was nothing short of spectacular. And not on the ironic side. The pacing of the first season was brilliant. Subtlety was certainly not among the strengths of this anime, but everything was so incredibly well executed that it's place within this (well, my) top list is absolutely earned.
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Rahxephon91



Joined: 08 Jun 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 7:00 am Reply with quote
Pacing of the first season good? Huh? How? The 1st season includes a few too many Mao episodes that border on pointlessness(look he's not dead). It's 2nd half is extremely slow with weak episodes made so because obviously the show got an extension and had to make filler so there could be a second season.

I believe the 1st season or well the first half and then the ending are better, but The 2nd season especially is so hyper. It features so many twists and turns that are so ridiculousness and so over the top. It's a show with a lot of asspulls.

spoiler[Like. My maid is now all of a sudden a ninja. Why? Anime!. Hi I'm orange kun. I was shown to be a scheming idiot last season, and now for lame reasons I'm a good guy even though the episode where I turn I'm acting evil all the WAY UP TO my turn. Why? Terrible writing! Hi were the Black Knights, were going to turn because are enemy presented us with chilling info(that he was able to get, yet why would know people like Shirley were Geased?)? Why? because the show needs twists! Speaking of Shirley, remember her character? Can't see how you'd forget when she essitently does the same thing both seasons, yep lets bring her back just so we can kill her? Why drama! Parents are evil and want to start 3rd impact? Which is so insane? We spent all this time on the mother plot and everything about it just goes so off the rails. Speaking of going evil, here's Lulu's brother, watch him go evil with clap activated gattling gun that will kill his sister except I guess shots to that back aren't lethal. Why not? City destroying bombs were'nt lethal to her knight after all, even though the show made it out to seem like they were? Oh that bomb made by that girl who made it at school, thats almost as stupid as having a United Nations meeting at a high school, oh wait...]

I'm sure there's more, but no I don't think CG is a good show. It's a show filled with a lot of crap, and that crap is entertaining as hell. But a top 50 should be filled with stuff that's actual quality. Quality that shows that anime is a worth while medium.

Code Geass does not do that. It's checklist anime. It's popcorn anime. It's certainly not art. Yeah the show is entertaining. The Transformer's movies can be entertaining as well.


Last edited by Rahxephon91 on Tue Apr 16, 2013 7:29 am; edited 2 times in total
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marie-antoinette



Joined: 18 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 7:05 am Reply with quote
Okay, let's take a look!

While I enjoy both seasons of Code Geass, R2 is definitely not that good. I could see putting the first season, or the series as a whole, in a top 50, but much closer to the bottom than the top.

I'm a bit meh about Bebop, though I plan to rewatch it sometime to see if my opinion has changed. And I flat out dislike Princess Mononoke, though I know I am in the minority where that one is concerned.

Anohana is another on that is okay but definitely ranked higher than it deserves to be, IMO.

Oh look! One that I do rank in my personal top 20 (I haven't seen enough to have a top 50): Bunny Drop. Great show, definitely happy with it there. And we have Honey and Clover up there too, which is another one I love.

Time of Eve did nothing for me so I definitely wouldn't rank it up here either.

That's about it for the ones I have a decided opinon of. Of the 50 titles, I've only seen 12, though there's a fair number of these titles on my to-watch list. My absolute favourites aren't there though, nor the two shows I do actually consider masterpieces (Gunslinger Girl and the end of Wolf's Rain).

It is a pretty good indicator of the most popular shows though, perhaps more so than the most watched since these are the ones people really like.
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yoshiyukiblade



Joined: 10 Nov 2012
Posts: 305
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 8:23 am Reply with quote
Of the top 50 listed on ANN, I've probably watched about half of them and I'd say their rankings are generally acceptable. I'm only saying this because I can't think of a show that I really liked that isn't among the top 50.

The top 2 are also among my favorites because they have a strong theme of familial love. among other fun things that are only truly enjoyable in anime format.
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