Forum - View topicAnime Expo 2008 - Industry roundtable: Fansubs - The Death of Anime?
|
Goto page Previous Next Note: this is the discussion thread for this article |
| Author | Message | |||
|---|---|---|---|---|
Myaow
 Posts: 1068 |
|
|||
|
This is ridiculously depressing, somehow.
I don't watch fansubs as a matter of pride, so I'm rather annoyed that shows I'm trying to enjoy in peace are being dropped or delayed while the industry goes to town trying to revolutionize itself to fit the fancy of people who aren't buying anyway. Can't a girl just watch her cartoons in peace these days? |
||||
|
||||
Greyawl
 Posts: 7 Location: Texas |
|
|||
|
01. When I discovered anime if you wanted subtitles you paid a $15.00 or more premium over the dubbed version. (Appleseed $34.95 sub $19.95 dub, Akira $39.95 sub $19.95 dub.) The fans of subtitles were financing the dubbed versions, DVD ended that. Now the lic houses have to justify higher cost for lower quality with fanservice xtras.
02. America is a niche market heaven. 03. I think the on Web video channel with commercials or banners would be one of the wiser options for initial contact with fans. Then let the market determine which series go hard copy. 04. The studios could solve the problem in house as well; Anyone remember GITS,s English and Japanese simultaneous release. 05. There will always be Gray and Black markets and fighting them only makes them spread. (How many people would have heard of napster if Metallica had not Sued them) My adventure that started with Black Magic M-66 (fansubbed) in a media room at a comic convention in Dallas, TX has created a theater with three full wall shelves of White market VHS, LD, (thankfully no region coding then) DVD, Blu-Ray (I Hate region coding) titles and I Still do not have an english version of Macross 7. |
||||
|
||||
Tempest
 I Run this place.ANN Publisher  Posts: 10420 Location: Do not message me for support. |
|
|||
Sadly, no. Many lawyers will tell you that copyright infringement is synonymous with theft. Legally they are different, but its a matter of opinion as to whether they are they are effectively the same or not. I don't think of them as the same, which isn't to say that copyright infringement isn't wrong, it's just not quite the same as theft. Much like rape isn't the same as murder. -t |
||||
|
||||
britannicamoore
 Posts: 2618 Location: Out. |
|
|||
|
How about before they sit and try to think about fansubbing they go after the bootleg market. Those people can get stuff out fast within weeks of airing, and the people who want to buy are spending money with them.
Sheesh, is it that difficult to pick the actual people who do cause harm to your profits? 
|
||||
|
||||
Dargonxtc
 Posts: 4463 Location: Nc5xd7+ スターダストの海洋 |
|
|||
Well Lance did say that they were coming out with a new initiative to specifically go after the bootlegger market. And he made it clear that he thought that those were big problems that will start being addressed. |
||||
|
||||
|
britannicamoore
Posts: 2618 Location: Out. |
|
|||
How the hell did I miss that? lol. I do feel that all the attacks on fansubs should be pushed in that direction. stop the bootleggers from taking (sometimes) innocent peoples money. Those are people who want to be customers who,seem to think they've found a good deal. Or, if not they are people who want to see the shows faster. |
||||
|
||||
|
Dargonxtc
Posts: 4463 Location: Nc5xd7+ スターダストの海洋 |
|
|||
Don't feel bad, he did go through it quickly, and said something to the effect of, "but that's off-topic since we are talking about fansubs". And then moved on. |
||||
|
||||
xia83
 Posts: 137 |
|
|||
|
I see what they mean of course, with revenue down etc etc. But I also believe (maybe even incorrectly) that some fansubs actually do give a show maybe a better shot when they're released on dvds. Like for me Lucky Star; had I not seen it when it was not licensed and being fansubbed, I would have not bought the volumes.
Although I watch fansubs, I always stick to unlicensed. Once Death Note was licensed I dropped it immediatly, although I could think of three sites that I could have gone too to finish off the show. I may be a bit of a hypocrite but I do believe its stealing when it's been licensed. Haha, just my two uneducated thoughts. |
||||
|
||||
|
Greyawl
Posts: 7 Location: Texas |
|
|||
Finished watching and like most panels on infringement the primary talking point (fansubbing) seemed to be used as a white elephant to attack piracy (which should be attacked), and to make excuses for production lag. True not all of the tv series produced will or should come to America. Some though are givens; Gundam Seed and GITS:SAC arrived without much lag because the creators knew they had a market here. I have bought Macross four times (VHS, LD, DVD, DVD remastered) and some parts of the series may never make it to our shores for my friends to hear or read because I am an aging market. We live in a global economy now and the animation studios are in a much better position to take advantage of that than any Hollywood studio will ever be. Maybe the fans need to help them figure that out. I happily contact the production studios Here and in Japan, and would urge other fans to do the same. You may find that does a lot to further the cause of good (I know That is Subjective (I can not watch Naruto  Anime crossing the Pacific.
Till then I will still pay a premium (Import) and keep hunting region free players. |
||||
|
||||
|
Nei
Posts: 24 |
|
|||
|
As they say in politcs, it's the economy, stupid.
Anime is going through what most other entertainment forms have gone through (and are still in). The market's saturated and the buying pubic can't/won't support it financially at the levels to buoy that saturation. Fansubs are illegal, but like other forms of illegal copying, won't stop. And it really isn't the cause of the slump; it's a symptom. I think there are people who've turned to fansubs simply because they cannnnot afford to buy DVDs, even to try a seires. A $30-$90 investment for something you don't like. A $180-$200 investment for something you do. In a time where the chocie is becoming gas or groceries. it affects all ages of fans. As an adult, you just don't have the money to buy it yourself. As parent, you don't have the money to buy it for your kids. Which brings me to my other issue with blaming fansubs. People watch them for different reasons, which makes stopping it through public plea or market change a challenge. The aforementioned lack of funds. A sheer hatred of the American way of doing dubs or subs (somewhat misguided imo). A desire for titles that never ever will see the light of day in the American market. A desire for any title right this very second, which, as the panelist talked about, is usually impossible for many reasons. And there's no quick fix. More broadcast would help bring attention to titles and help folks decide on future purchase, but braodcats compnaies have their own agendas. Not bad, jsuttheir own. And they don't involve putting that muc anime on their schedule. ADV and FUNi had a good idea with making anime hcannels, but, the simple truth is if you want a niche-market channel to get wide cable distribution, you better make the cable company a partner. Ask major league sports which isn't nearly as niche as anime. Online on-demand will owrk with younger fnas, but while I'm not a technophobe, I too prefer watching on a bigger screen than my computer monitor and in a different environ than my office chair. Right now, what's working for me (and I think a lot of folks) is renting (which is how many fansub fans treat it). I check out anime (and most of my leaisure books) from my library. I use Netflix and RentAnime. And if I see a title I feel I just ahve to own, then I go out and buy it. On the buyign end, I think FUNi's goign in a good direction with box sets as the initial release. It follows more along US TV's season box set strategy. I don't need interviews and other "extras." But 13 eps on a disc for around $50 is more palatible to me and my budget. It doesn't mean I'll start buying everything that tweaks my interest, but I will be more likely to buy more titles I "just" like rather than keeping it strictly to the "omigod it's the best title ever" ones. Nei |
||||
|
||||
|
clavesoon
Posts: 6 |
|
|||
|
I don't know if I represent a later generation but from my own perspective I do not want the physical media. I hate owning dvd discs, they take up space and just end up as clutter. It could just be me, but i know a number of people about my age who share the same opinion. I don't really give a damn about most of the extras (sometimes I do). All I want is a simple media file that can be played on my computer.
Now that being said I was not against legal means of procuring anime. I still bought/rented DVD's for about two years, mostly rented, but I drew the line when I came across Gantz. 10 discs for 26 episodes. 2 episodes on some of the discs. Even renting it wasn't worth it. Way back when I remember some discs having as many as 8 episodes per, now if you get one with 5 you count yourself lucky. To be honest, I don't feel like I'm getting my money's worth with DVD's nowadays, especially when a bunch of the content on the discs is crap I don't really want. I also rarely make a judgment call on an anime until I'm about three episodes in. As an anime fan, I'm all for the companies getting their due, but I consider the current business model to be utterly broken in distributing said anime to potential consumers. What they ask for anime currently in physical media is too exorbitant and the rate of delivery isn't nearly quick enough. So if you want to consider me, a downloader and watcher of fansubs, a thief, then I guess by legal definition, I'm a thief. However, it is more significant for me to prevent myself from being legally thieved from. I'm not really interested in the legal technicalities of the issue. I still purchase DVD's every once in a while to give support to the companies which I then promptly throw or give away. The moral philosophy behind my purchases is more important to me as a consumer in this scenario. I realize those of my generation don't often think this way, which is why i believe companies should really restructure themselves to support the new demand. Yes it takes resources and time, but price it too high and you'll start cutting away at the market. |
||||
|
||||
|
FanFicGuru
Posts: 159 |
|
|||
|
And yet again anime fans around the country begin bickering over fansubs while hundreds of thousands continue to download.
It's like arguing about how cruel torture is while sitting next to an interrogation chamber. Unless you walk into the room and stop it, arguing about it is really pointless. |
||||
|
||||
doctordoom85
 Posts: 2093 |
|
|||
Well, speaking for those of us who do prefer DVDs over downloaded files, I prefer DVDs for the following reasons: A) That "pride" factor that some of us get from owning a lot on our shelves. It's silly, I'm in no denial of that, but some of us have it. Seinfeld once mentioned this, with Jerry asking why people own books, saying "they display them like they're trophies!". Well, we do. Seeing that full shelf is satisfying, knowing we have so much we can watch at anytime. Especially for someone like me, who probably won't even get cable when I have my own place. There's too little on cable TV that is worth seeing immediately, instead of waiting for the DVD. DVDs = your own personal selection, always there, waiting to be seen. TV = flip through channels, HOPEFULLY you'll get lucky. B) TV's screen size > small computer screen. No need to explain that. C) Loaning it to friends, especially those who haven't watched anime but are interested. I'm definitely not going to recommend fansubs, and telling them to "aw, just go buy/rent it" feels lazy. To actually hand them a DVD feels like I'm taking more of an effort to increase anime fandom. D) Media files = taking up precious space on my PC. And if I delete it after I see it, then I might as well have rented the DVD. I'm not criticizing those who prefer downloads (legal ones, mind you), just explaining why some of us might still prefer DVDs. |
||||
|
||||
|
houkoholic
Posts: 83 Location: Japan |
|
|||
Easy, support initiatives such as Gonzo's simultaneous release, help make it a success such that the others in the industry can't ignore its financial impact and take note, even if you don't personally like the shows, at least let your circle of anime friends know about it if they don't already - word of mouth still WORKS. Talking about potential sales of digital distribution base on speculation of fansub numbers and whatnot is nothing compared to hard sales data (of which I'm sure all the companies outside of Japan had discuss this to the Japanese to death already). This is the time when money speaks louder than words. If a few thousand DVD sales is considered good enough these days and time, I'm sure even the equal number of paid for digital downloads will make them turn their heads. Last edited by houkoholic on Fri Jul 04, 2008 4:46 pm; edited 1 time in total |
||||
|
||||
|
Xanas
Posts: 2058 |
|
|||
On point B, My TV is my computer screen, nice pleasant 42" and if I upgrade to a 60" or something I'll also use it as my computer monitor. And why not? These things are 1080p these days which is plenty of screen resolution for windows. On point D, the media files are small (sadly the legal ones are inefficient compared to the fansub ones, but I rip my own dvds using mencoder/matroska/x264 to get efficient sizes). External hard drives are very cheap these days with terabyte drives now being less than 200$. |
||||
|
||||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group