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REVIEW: Batman: Gotham Knight


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atlanime



Joined: 22 May 2008
Posts: 67
Location: Atlanta, GA.
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 1:09 am Reply with quote
Out of curiousity, did anyone else's American DVD come with Japanese kanji on the DVD menu?
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LordPrometheus





PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 6:43 am Reply with quote
I will still be buying this. I own everything that Bruce Timm ever worked on, so I'm not stopping now. Besides, Kevin Conroy kicks butt.
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mrsatan



Joined: 06 Jul 2005
Posts: 909
Location: Olympia, WA, USA
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 3:20 pm Reply with quote
I wish they hadn't confined themselves to the Nolan "movie" universe. Wouldn't it have been great if each short could've been unconnected and the directors could be free feature a different rogue? (Joker, Penguin, Mr. Freeze, etc.)
The version I saw seemed to have a few shorts out of order... The Italian mob-boss played by Rob Paulsen gets captured by Batman at the end of one short and then he's free in the next. I hate that Tarantino non-linear style. But on the whole I liked it, especially the final Deadshot one. And I agree the first one with the annoying skateboarders was a total ripoff of the '90s cartoon.
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Case



Joined: 09 Apr 2002
Posts: 1016
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 4:45 pm Reply with quote
"Extremely mediocre?"

Paradox, oh shi-!!
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GATSU



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 15295
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 6:54 pm Reply with quote
I haven't seen it yet, but they're wrong about it being the first PG-13 animated movie in the series. That honor goes to Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker.
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atlanime



Joined: 22 May 2008
Posts: 67
Location: Atlanta, GA.
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 5:54 am Reply with quote
The didn't explain why Alfred's mustache disappeared in the last segment from when we see him at the end of the next-to-last one. Plus, Batman's outfits kept changing the whole time. I know the first segment wouldn't count for it because it's told from the perspective of each of those 4 kids, even the one at the end because it's still from his POV instead of actually happening, plus the one where the Batsuit was using the new bullet-deflecting technology could be totally different(even if it look like it was from Silverhawks).
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scortia



Joined: 27 Mar 2006
Posts: 174
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 5:19 pm Reply with quote
GATSU wrote:
I haven't seen it yet, but they're wrong about it being the first PG-13 animated movie in the series. That honor goes to Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker.


Which was a freaking awesome movie. Animated Batman that had to have an alternate version that could be aired on tv.

Anyhow, I pretty much completely agree with the review of Gotham Knight. "Working Through the Pain" definitely was the best and it's sad that the other shorts could not measure up to it. The first short was great because it gave me nostalgia for the similar ep in BTAS. And I actually enjoyed the Field Test, despite the painfully pretty-Bruce. It was to the point and wrapped up nicely so there we have it. The others lacked substance. Batman deserves more than just loads of eyecandy.
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Fronzel



Joined: 11 Sep 2003
Posts: 1906
PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 8:11 am Reply with quote
atlanime wrote:
The didn't explain why Alfred's mustache disappeared in the last segment from when we see him at the end of the next-to-last one. Plus, Batman's outfits kept changing the whole time.

I think that's because each short was directed by a different person and they each more or less did what they wanted, which was the idea all along. Don't split hairs.

It's true that the plot running through all the films was barely there, but I didn't mind exactly because it's so unimportant. It's not the point. It's just background.

I can't say I'd want to see bishie-Bruce from "Field Test" in a longer format, but his boyish looks and slight smugness was an interesting alternate take on the character, which is what this project was all about.

I liked the short a fair deal because it showed Batman essentially screwing up and having to deal with the consequences rather than being the all-conquering hero, plus the simple nobility in the decision he makes in the last scene. That the short is ultimately about Batman's personality is what makes it good.

I'll agree with everyone else in that it's blown out of the water in that respect by "Working Through the Pain", though. It’s all about Bruce’s personality rather than it just coming in for a bit at the end, and the way the whole thing hangs together is impressive. It’s really the only short that isn’t distracted by action scenes.

While "Crossfire" and "In Darkness Dwells" are far less interesting, really, I enjoyed the whole disc. Maybe I was just excited to see new animated Batman, I don't know.
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rocklobster



Joined: 22 Jul 2005
Posts: 200
Location: Planet Claire
PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 7:08 am Reply with quote
I agree. Not nearly as good as the American version. The stories needed to be longer.
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GATSU



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 15295
PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 7:19 am Reply with quote
Finally got to it.

Quote:
The next short, Crossfire, is easily the weakest on the disc...it's stilted, poorly written and cheaply animated. If there's a lone example in this film of how specifically not to use anime as a means to showcase creative and visual flair, this is it. The dialogue is uniformly terrible and the dub feels weak. The story is very simple; two detectives, one a big Batman fan and the other a skeptic who thinks he's a dangerous vigilante, deliver a criminal to Arkham Asylum, which is now an entire island. They find themselves in the middle of a mob war between the Russians and the Italians (a plot thread that weaves through most of the rest of the film), and Batman shows up to save them when they get caught in the – wait for it – crossfire! That's all there is to it.


I disagree. I think it's got good use of surprise and tension. Plus, it reinforces Batman's value as a crime-fighter.

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it looks like high-end anime with very stereotypical character designs (ask yourself if you'd ever really want to see bishonen Bruce Wayne; if the answer is yes, this will be your personal favorite).


I thought it was amusing, and poking fun at his playboy image.

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This leads into one of the stronger stories in the film, Field Test. ...It's nothing particularly special, but it's not bad.


Seeing Batman undergo equipment failure is what I think is special, because it usually goes smoothly for him.

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It's entertaining enough but, like all the other shorts in this collection, it lacks any weight. Batman fights Killer Croc, thwarts the Scarecrow, the end.


I thought the detailed take on the atmosphere of the sewer was impressive enough to justify its minimalist story line.

Quote:
Finally, there's Deadshot, a remarkably silly story about a tremendously skilled assassin who's taking down Gotham elites one by one....Problem is the story is really poorly-executed and way too short...It does attempt to tie up all the simplistic themes explored briefly in the other shorts, but it does so while simultaneously being clunky and lame.


Didn't really pay attention to how its "message", since I really loved the lighting and character designs too much to care. [Not to mention the cool weaponry.]

Quote:
Had they gone the route of The Animatrix – telling distinct, self-contained stories, perhaps with longer individual run times – or took cues from standard feature-length DC animated films and just told a normal narrative, Gotham Knight probably would've worked out. Unfortunately the creative decision to try and blend the two cripples the film.


The thing about the Animatrix is that it was exploring the concepts of the world created in the movies; so it had more flexibility than Batman. GK's specifically about Bruce's growth as a crime-fighter, meaning simpler scenarios. Plus, to be blunt, pointless philosophizing is what dragged down Dark Knight.

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It's important to note that Warner is really downplaying the anime angle; nowhere on the disc outside of the closing credits is there any mention of the Japanese directors who brought their unique styles to the shorts in this anthology.


I'm guessing it's because they've been involved in productions less known in the U.S., not out of any problem with it being anime. Or they assume that Americans are already familiar with anime by now; and thus they don't need an "introduction" to it, like they did in the Animatrix. They did go all out on Appleseed 2, but that probably has more to do with explaining a series which might not necessarily be familiar to its target audience.

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Even they might find the writing to be extremely mediocre, especially when compared to previous animated efforts like the classic 1992 series Batman: The Animated Series, which was lauded again and again for its excellent writing. In fact, on the 2-disc DVD and Bluray special edition versions of this film, Warner saw fit to include 4 sterling episodes from that cartoon. They serve as a reminder of what Gotham Knight could've been, rather than the uneven, uninvolving and ultimately forgettable film it is.


You obviously haven't sat through that season which had crap character designs. Rolling Eyes
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GATSU



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 15295
PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 10:14 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
In fact, on the 2-disc DVD and Bluray special edition versions of this film, Warner saw fit to include 4 sterling episodes from that cartoon. They serve as a reminder of what Gotham Knight could've been, rather than the uneven, uninvolving and ultimately forgettable film it is.


Well, compared to "Have I Got a Story for You", "Legends of the Dark Knight" is bad fan-fiction, which isn't surprising, since it's from the later years of the series. I remember liking "Heart of Ice", but it'd be considered sappy nowadays. I could pretty much predict that "Over the Edge" was a spoiler[dream], and it basically amounts to a "What If?" style story. "I Am The Night" is the good one on that disc, but I don't feel that it's somehow superior to the anime shorts, since it's about his relationship with the city at large, not about him personally. It's really just a case of "different strokes". What I wanted from the anime was whether it could portray him as a crime-fighter as well as the American version of the series, [Though considering the overlap, it's hard to tell which one is which. :wink: ] and it delivered. If I want to see anything more intricate, I'll settle for the movies.
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166eric



Joined: 21 Jul 2008
Posts: 2
PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 4:42 am Reply with quote
lol, "It has Batman in it and Batman is pretty cool."

I'm definately all for a Bishonen Bruce Wayne so that probably will be my favourite. Disappointing to hear about the rest of it though. At least there's Conroy, and Dark Knight of course.

Quote:
I remember liking "Heart of Ice", but it'd be considered sappy nowadays.


I watched that for the first time in years the other day. It doesn't really do anything new for the Mr Freeze vengeful about wife story, but it's not bad. I liked Cat and the Claw way better though.
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penguintruth



Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 8459
Location: Penguinopolis
PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 6:55 am Reply with quote
166eric wrote:
Quote:
I remember liking "Heart of Ice", but it'd be considered sappy nowadays.


I watched that for the first time in years the other day. It doesn't really do anything new for the Mr Freeze vengeful about wife story, but it's not bad.


Uh, actually, "Heart of Ice" is where the "Mr. Freeze vengeful about wife story" comes from. Dini and Timm completely recreated the character, who was previously a gag villian at best. "Heart of Ice" is really the beginning of the modern Mr. Freeze, so yes, it certainly does something new, or it did, anyway.
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LordPrometheus





PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 9:06 am Reply with quote
penguintruth wrote:
166eric wrote:
Quote:
I remember liking "Heart of Ice", but it'd be considered sappy nowadays.


I watched that for the first time in years the other day. It doesn't really do anything new for the Mr Freeze vengeful about wife story, but it's not bad.


Uh, actually, "Heart of Ice" is where the "Mr. Freeze vengeful about wife story" comes from. Dini and Timm completely recreated the character, who was previously a gag villian at best. "Heart of Ice" is really the beginning of the modern Mr. Freeze, so yes, it certainly does something new, or it did, anyway.


Exactly. They turned Mr. Freeze from a moron with an ice gun into a cold, brutal killer. Batman:TAS completely defined Batman for me and legions of other fans who grew up in the 90s. The fact that it still holds up today is a testament to the creativity of Timm and Dini.

Quote:
You obviously haven't sat through that season which had crap character designs


That is purely a matter of opinion. I liked the newer designs and thought they worked just fine. It was an effort to make their shows have some continuity between them, specifically Superman:TAS and The New Batman Adventures.
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166eric



Joined: 21 Jul 2008
Posts: 2
PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 11:23 pm Reply with quote
penguintruth wrote:
166eric wrote:
Quote:
I remember liking "Heart of Ice", but it'd be considered sappy nowadays.


I watched that for the first time in years the other day. It doesn't really do anything new for the Mr Freeze vengeful about wife story, but it's not bad.


Uh, actually, "Heart of Ice" is where the "Mr. Freeze vengeful about wife story" comes from. Dini and Timm completely recreated the character, who was previously a gag villian at best. "Heart of Ice" is really the beginning of the modern Mr. Freeze, so yes, it certainly does something new, or it did, anyway.


Ah, okay I just looked it up. I guess I should've said that about the Batman and Robin movie... maybe without the 'not bad' bit at the end.

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The fact that it still holds up today is a testament to the creativity of Timm and Dini.


"The Batman" didn't seem to want to hold it up, which sucks but I still kinda like his design in that show.
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