Forum - View topicNEWS: Embracing Love's Nitta Acknowledges Tracing Photo
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gynocrat_rex
 Posts: 57 Location: Texas |
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Yeah no kidding, the list on the Japanese 'Nitta Plagiarism Site' is getting bigger-- it's like they're all combing through her entire history looking for tracing evidence. 
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darcerin
Posts: 330 |
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Here's what I don't get, this whole business about Nitta being "naive" about copyrights. Tracing something that's in a publishing then trying to pass it off as your own for profit? You can't tell me she didn't think that just *might* be plagarism in the smallest form. She just got caught, so she's feigning with the "I didn't know" defense. Sorry, I don't buy her story.
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sunflower
 Posts: 1080 |
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She didn't take the same picture. She copied someone else's, claiming it as her own. *That* is plagiarizing. |
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ArielTsuki
Posts: 178 |
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Not everyone is well versed in international copyrights. All the manga-kas who did the deed similar to Nitta usually used Japanese Ads or another manga-ka's work. Nitta used an ad from a Italian magazine and thought it was perfectly okay since it's overseas and used it. Does she believes that sincerely, I don't know. |
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CCSYueh
 Posts: 2707 Location: San Diego, CA |
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An ad, wasn't it? Maybe I'm too used to McDonalds schlock. It's not like she was passing off the Mona Lisa as hers. However, I did point out it was really, really stupid. I could see using the ad as ref for a "European-style" room, but common sense would tell her to move stuff around. Remove the chair. Change the drapes. Move the kissing boys to a different spot. This is beyond "ignorant" of the law. |
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britannicamoore
 Posts: 2618 Location: Out. |
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Hm. So in simple terms Cait, are you upset that your....hero has fallen? Thats what i took from your post.
I've heard it said there is little originality left in the world, I just think people are too lazy to go for it. To work hard. An artist needs to be creative, and lets face it there is nothing creative in copying something part for part. My other issue is that she didn't speak up until trouble started. if she had given the ad props when it was first published in her rework, then things may not have been so bad. With that seriousness out of the way, I must say that both set of people need to stop making out on that ledge. Thats just dangerous. 
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domino
 Posts: 373 |
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I love Nitta's works, so this disappointed me a lot. Using photos as a reference is fine, but when you're tracing the exact pictures, from everything from poses to the position of fingers to the CLOTHES and BACKGROUNDS (even the people on the street below in the cityscape picture are the same!), it's definitely unethical. And that she did this so many times before being told to stop.... I'm just really disappointed in her and hope she cleans up her act. She even photoshopped some of the photos into her works, and that's just.... no.
I want to defend her, but then I remember how mad I was when Kayono traced Kazusa Takashima's works (among tracing other things) and got away with it, driving the artist who was copied into a corner that she couldn't come out of. The person stealing the art won while the original author had to go into hiding. Though I doubt anyone at Diesel is as panicked over this as Takashima was, I don't think it's fair to forgive Nitta so easily just because I'm her fan. Though even to this day just hearing Kayono's name makes me feel sick... |
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TokyoGetter
 Posts: 416 Location: CA. You can tell by the low moral standards. |
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A part of me wants to say 'post-modern reference!', while another part of me feels it's just plagiarism. I dunno. A tip of the hat is fine, and she's certainly under a murderous schedule, but it appears like it is rough going...
I think a lot of Cait's points are coherent and well-argued, and I appreciated them. Good work on getting your point across. But to echo one of the replies, no, I would not expect any mention of it at YCon. It'd result in a lot of staring at the floor. |
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sunflower
Posts: 1080 |
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Yes, they're all ads that she copied. Why does that make them any less worthy of protection from people stealing them? A lot of people worked really hard to make each one of those successful ads. They spent time and effort and money, and made something they're each probably proud of. Then she comes waltzing in and tracing it, producing an exact copy, claiming it as her own work, selling it to Libre and her fans as such. It doesn't matter if it's fine art or advertising art, it's wrong. |
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Cait
 Posts: 503 |
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The "it's not a big deal because she wasn't copying fine art" argument is incorrect. The Mona Lisa is a painting over 400 years old and is not actually protected under copyright law, just as Shakespeares works arent covered today. Anyone can take a picture of a popular classic painting (unless the museum, etc. says they don't want photographs taken, considering camera flashes can damage old paintings) or copy it and publish it in a manga. No one is going to believe that Youka Nitta painted the Mona Lisa, anyway. It's a painting in the public consciousness and I don't think anyone would be stupid enough to try passing it off as their own.
She's admitted in the past that she used magazines and advertizements for "reference" which is not the same thing. Using something as "inspiration" isn't wrong and I don't think anyone is trying to argue otherwise. What is wrong is the kind of insistence that the "inspiration" argument makes blantant copying acceptable. Just because the copied works are ads that no one who read the manga cares about doesn't mean they are not cared about by those who took those pictures, were in those pictures or represent the company/product the pictures were taken for and who have the legal right to control the copying of. It's true that many of these companies might not care at all that their ads were traced in some niche genre comic book, but I'll bet you that some of them aren't going to be pleased about this at all, maybe not to the point of a lawsuit, but certainly to the point of demanding Libre take "appropriate action" to punish Nitta. Not everyone is open-minded and accepting about gay culture the way the anime/manga fandom just accepts BL. Libre and Nitta might get sued just because her manga features homosexuals and because they are offended by that fact they're going to push the issue of copyright infringement. Of course, that's speculation on my part and not actually something that is happening (just saying the possibility is out there). My point is that while many in the general anime fandom who think this issue "is no big deal" are confident that it will blow over with minimal consequence to Youka Nitta in a couple months, there is no way of knowing how this is going to turn out in the end at this point. LIbre is taking this very seriously (they already removed her from the lineup of the next BBGold issue) and even suspending Nitta for several years I think would be a "serious" consequence. Having Haru wo Daiteita, one of the biggest BL manga in print today pulled for years, or worse, permanently, would be a "serious" consequence. And even if she doesn't get suspended for years, it will still mar her reputation in the eyes of the fandom and industry and cause a lot of fear and distrust among other mangaka, their publishers and their fans for years to come. How is that not relevant? How is that "blowing over" in a couple months? |
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tygerchickchibi
 Posts: 1448 |
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o_o; wow, much hate in here.
I don't find the clothes design a big deal. A lot of people use references for popular outfits to give their characters to wear. I found some pictures to be slightly...overboard. Some pictures don't even relate to the article at hand. Just something I noticed. |
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ArielTsuki
Posts: 178 |
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Getting sued by a magazine from an industry with a very sizable amount of gay male designers and known to support gay rights for homosexuality in a manga? Cait, calm down. It's a serious matter, but I seriously, seriously doubt that they'll sue Libre for this. At most, Nitta will be suspended for a while from being a manga-ka. Remember, it takes money to sue, especially when the case is overseas. I doubt the publication is going to take the trouble to Japan and sue Libre. It's already too much trouble to deal with copyright cases in Japan as it is.
Did you even remember any of the cases listed in my post? Especially the Kayono vs. Kazusa Takeshima case that actually went to court? Very few BL fans know about that outside Takeshima fans. Heck, I didn't know until a year after it happen. It won't be some ticking apocalypse bomb you're making it out to be. It's not exactly uncommon for some manga-ka accused or busted for plagiarism once in a while. As for Nitta, her career is truly uncertain at this point. Will her Japanese fans back her or not is the real question hanging over our heads. |
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Cait
Posts: 503 |
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"Apocalypse bomb?" I really don't see how my arguments are being continually construed as some sort of doomsaying. All of my arguments have been that this is a serious issue, will have serious consequences for Nitta now (suspension is serious!), and for the industry in which this sort of plagiarism is probably rampant-- as in, eyes will be on mangaka much more closely now than they were before. I've never once claimed that this was the "end of the world" or that BL manga would never ever recover and that everyone in the world was going to start throwing stones at homosexuals and then Bush was going to pass a law banning yaoi in America...
In fact, all of my initial arguments were the direct result of a lot of dissmissive arguments in the fandom to the effect that "copying is perfectly okay 'cause we all do it, too." My arguments were that it is not okay and that this case, particulaly because of the high profile BL mangaka involved, is very serious, whether anything very serious comes of the issue "in court" or not. I'm also pretty sure in my last post that I stated that this probably won't go to court, rather that some of these offended companies very well may make oral demands of Libre (who seem more than ready to oblige) to punish Nitta for her actions (suspension or firing; pulling the volumes that contain questionable pages from publication, etc.). However, saying "all fashion industries are full of gays so of course they aren't going to sue" might not be intended so, but smacks of serious stereotyping. I'm not particularly concerned about Nitta's fans at all. From what I've already heard in the fandom, most of them, while disappointed and somewhat shocked by the revelation, still say they support her. Saying it won't come up at Yaoi-con simply because some people might feel uncomfortable about it is silly. If she is indeed going she is going to have to address it at some point. Someone will ask, and whether or not everyone feels awkward about it, Nitta should feel obligated to at the very least make a formal apology to her American fans. Even if that acknowledgement is the only one made, it is an issue deserving of addressing. Yaoi-con is less than a few months away at this point (late September), and I really don't see how the issue will cease to be relevant before the end of the year. If Nitta wants to avoid it entirely, she better just cancel her appearance, which to me would be a greater disservice to her fans. Finally, my exasperation on this issue is the product of a deeper issue I take with anime/manga fandom about copyright infringement. It isn't that they don't know what the laws are, it's that people just think the laws don't matter because it isn't hurting them. And when I say "them" I mean the people breaking the laws. They don't care so long as they aren't the ones being criticized or villainized or punished. They want to dismiss any claim that the theft of intellectual property, or in this case, copywritten photographs, is wrong. That's what makes me more angry than anything else in this situation. I'm tired of the fandom deluding itself into believing it isn't doing anything wrong and taking the mistakes and wrongdoings of people in the industry as some sort of shield to protect themselves with. I love Youka Nitta's work, but this angry part of me wants her to get her career ruined to show the fandom that this is not okay. This is really not okay at all. I hate the idea of using her as some kind of "example," but nothing else seems to be working to get through to people. If the industry doesn't take a severe stand about the issue how can they ever expect the fandom to? |
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xanderion
Posts: 9 |
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You can't be sure of that. I live in France and I can tell you that French fashion houses are known to systematically bring suit every time they notice an infringement of their copyrights. There are always many cases at the same time and the trials can take a few years, but eventually, the fashion houses win the cases. That's why I've already said in another forum that Youka Nitta's fans can only pray now that the fashion industry wouldn't swoop down on her.
It's not because few western fans know about it that the Japanese don't know about it. For my part, I knew the cases you mentionned. And Kayono vs. Kazusa Takashima case is still remembered by BL Japanese fans. It was pretty nasty as during the trial, Kayono's mother--along slandering Takashima--conducted a smear campain against the BL genre on all the media. |
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TokyoGetter
Posts: 416 Location: CA. You can tell by the low moral standards. |
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I'm sorry, but when I think 'lenient and compassionate about copyrights and dealing with people in a sensible manner', the fashion industry does not pop into my top ten candidates. 
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