Forum - View topicREVIEW: Emma Sub.DVD
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CaptainAvatar
 Posts: 381 Location: Saint Louis, MO |
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Please accept my apologies if I misquoted. That was never my intention. I am an Anime Insider member and a big fan of Right Stuf. The Dark Lord has acquired a healthy portion of my pocket book, and will continue to do so!  And to reiterate, I will give the show a try, and may well end up buying. I'm just a dub fan lamenting the loss of what would possibly have been a terrific show dubbed. But I would never expect nor ask a company to take a loss on any license just to satisfy me!
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Tenar
Posts: 12 |
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Lame.. No If I wanted to spend the time reading the story, I would just read the manga again. Why would I want to sit though subtitles? Nope, not buying it without a dub. And I did love the manga. |
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Miitan
Posts: 117 Location: Gensokyo, UK |
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I agree, it IS lame to not buy something just because it doesn't have a dub. |
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Dargonxtc
 Posts: 4463 Location: Nc5xd7+ スターダストの海洋 |
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Sorry so late.
Haha you must feel so clever. Yes when I was reading the manga and one of the girls said goodbye my inner voice was telling me a squeaky Japanese girl saying sayonara!  Maybe you translate everything you read into Japanese, but I don't. On the other hand I am quite intimate with how British people talk, even down to the dialect. And *gasp* that is what my inner voice was hearing when I read the manga. I am kind of sick of people like you, where you can't even say it is a shame that Emma will never be spoken in English, and you rag on people whom wish it were so. I can only guess what your ulterior motives are for being so gleeful that a dual-language free-choice format will never be made. But I'm guessing it has something to do with being a raging Japanophile.
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Nor would I. However I do hold highly suspect the process to determine which titles qualify and which ones don't. Surely that must be a difficult process in this age of piracy/entitlement/freeloaders. No question about that. Beyond the unknown and sometimes very subjective reasons of why some shows do better than others, or do better than expected. But one thing is for sure, you'll never know how well a show would have done if it doesn't get a dub. So you'll never really know whether the fact to hold off on a dub was really correct. I know they had the right stuff, but did Nozomi make the right choice? I don't think we will ever know, because as it is now it has no chance of ever being a hit. Is it something I can live with? Sure. Still makes me sad? You bet. Do I think studios are being a bit heavy-handed as the industry undergoes transmogrification in determining which shows get dubs, and which don't? Also in the affirmative. |
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Miitan
Posts: 117 Location: Gensokyo, UK |
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That's good to know. Considering I was born, raised and have lived in London for all of my life I also consider to be quite the knowledgable one regarding the English language and dialect. I'm not going to try and guess where you're from or where you've picked up your intimate knowledge of how British people talk, but I can clearly see your inability to comprehend the use of sarcasm.
Actually it was because the militant 'dub only!' fans love to whine and who am I to deny them. I also don't see these dub fans throwing the thousands of dollars required for a dub at the companies in question (in advance) so one can be produced for them. Could it be that internet whining is much easier on the pocket? |
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Dargonxtc
Posts: 4463 Location: Nc5xd7+ スターダストの海洋 |
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And the fact you didn't include the sentence right after that in the quote, proves you still don't understand. Either that or your trying to subterfuge the point.
Oh you are so right with that one though. That's where I draw the line. Myself spending thousands of dollars on anime products every year accounts for nothing. By your rationale we should either a)start our own company, or b) start an anime charity organization. But that all is really just more chicanery isn't it. Let's make it simple. Companies make products, consumers choose whether to buy them.
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ZeetherKID77
 Posts: 981 |
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The surprising thing is that most of these sub-only releases DO have dubs...but they air on Animax-asia.
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Miitan
Posts: 117 Location: Gensokyo, UK |
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Don't confuse your inability to comprehend sarcasm as me being a snot. You just make yourself look ignorant.
In the grand scheme of things, no. Your 'thousands of dollars' is a drop in the ocean for most companies, the same as mine and anyone elses. Dubs cost something called 'money', without 'money' there can be no dub and some people (not you) seem to forget this. My point is that people should stop whining that niche series aren't getting a dub when it's not financially viable and proudly proclaiming they will refuse to buy the series as a result which lowers the chances that the next niche series will get a dub due to low sales of the previous one causing them to then whine about the next niche series not receiving a dub and thus it continues. |
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Dargonxtc
Posts: 4463 Location: Nc5xd7+ スターダストの海洋 |
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Oh whatever, this line isn't worth it, call me names if it makes you feel better, just try not to be such a snot in the future.
You have to read what I was replying to buddy. But yet you are calling for chairity organizations for dub fans to give money to companies that fans want dubs for. I could write an essay on how wrong that is, and the logistical nightmare that it would cause. But basically the conclusion would sound something like this; amateurish and not in tune with how businesses are run. And here is a maxim that even someone such as yourself may have heard. You have to spend money to make money. So which is worse? People whom are known consumers letting it be known what kind of products they wish to buy, or fantasy.
I can't completely disagree with what is written above, it's the execution that bothers me(see first quote). The problem I do see with the above is basically you want people to buy something that they do not wish to buy, or rather they want to buy it but the product doesn't meet their needs. And for that you just want them to shut up. The difference I see, it that one, no matter how annoying it is to you, is rooted in honesty. While the other, coming from your side of the camp, seems to be rooted in elitism. Both in the end have valid points. But at the same time I don't think it should be a happy day when a products value is being degraded over time, not the other way around. And although I don't count myself as among the ones who say they no longer trust the industry, I do count myself among the ones that say it does make mistakes, and is not infallible. Read:
Basically I feel that the decision modes of many of these companies is in wide swath mode, instead of narrow and concentrated. Do I understand the reasons why? Yes I do. But it is times like these that I feel companies are more likely to make mistakes because they are just in that mode to do the same thing over and over. _________________________________ And another thing, in the case of Emma, that I don't really get. We know that Emma, in general, is geared towards an older audience. But they are the ones that have money, and in general are looking for that more mature series to offset whatever other type of ridiculous anime they enjoy watching. Another thing is I think Emma cross-over appeal is wrongly diminished. It might be a niche title to Naruto fans, but how many times in fora do we hear someones mother, or even grandmother, or just someone who was older that read the manga, usually through barrowing it, and were interested in getting the show. That is until they found out it was in Japanese only. These are not 'anime fans'. No Emma is the kind of anime that that even people who don't like anime will like. But by the same token those people are the ones who will go without if the series isn't in spoken English. I guess an important figure would be the manga sales data, it was always billed as a hit, I wonder if that is true or a lie. We'll probably never find out. But I can say one thing, most likely per capita, Emma fans are more willing to spend money than most other insanely popular series. And that is just because they are in general older, more mature crowd. |
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Randall Miyashiro
 Posts: 2451 Location: A block away from Golden Gate Park |
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I just finished the second disc and the number of names during the credits were less than 200. I think that there were about that many names on the first disc which would imply that this series didn't even hit it's 1000 preorder mark unless there is a higher ratio of names (I think I'm on the fourth) on the other two discs. I've heard some widely varying numbers for dub costs, but no matter how you look at it the price passed down to the consumer probably would be huge for a series that doesn't even sell 1000 preorder copies, and that is with the name in the credits incentive. Also keep in mind that the number of season one copies will most likely outsell the number of season two copies. One can always theorize how much higher the sales would be if it did have a dub, but I'm still not convinced that it is a sure enough thing for a company to invest in a dub on many anime dramas. |
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Dargonxtc
Posts: 4463 Location: Nc5xd7+ スターダストの海洋 |
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Well what you say certainly may be true. And like I said, I don't wish for the company to take a loss. And yes, we can all hope that a professional company like Nozomi took a hard look at it and made the right choice. It just seems out of all the anime that haven't recieved dubs, Emma is the one who would have benefitted most from one, or in other words the most difference between versions. For the reasons I have already stated(I won't bore anyone or myself with writting them over), including an unrecognized cross-over appeal, it certainly must have been a hard choice. And perhaps I am just a bit miffed that in better times Emma no doubt would have recieved a dub and probably done very well, including increase long-term sales of the property. But that idea was scrapped because they are going on the side caution regardless. To me it seems like a waste, when we have quotes like a "masterpiece that shows the true potential of anime as an international art form", yet you immediately diminish any of that potential to actually being recognized. Like I said this is an anime that people who don't normally like anime would enjoy, but those same people won't buy subtitles only because that is not how they watch TV. Another great aspect of attracting this kind of a consumer is they probably don't even know what a torrent is and they have money. As far as what you said about pre-orders that also certainly may be true, but I hold such things suspect. But I will give you probably know more about it than I do. There is a large contingent of people who refuse to pre-order anything (I used to be among those, but I do pre-order now), and for the record I didn't pre-order Emma, I just bought it. I know, I know there is nothing I can do about it now or ever. And for the record Shawne, I am still happy with my Emma boxset, just not as happy as I could be. From what I can tell though there are a bunch of people who fall outside of my tolerance's for what they will buy. Some for very bad reasons, and some for very good. |
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Tenar
Posts: 12 |
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Goodness sake, I am not going to spend money on something that I DON'T WANT. Oh yes, I think I will throw money at some company to thank them for making what I think is a sub-par product. That will for sure teach them to make better products in the future... /sarcasm What kind of sence does THAT make? |
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Miitan
Posts: 117 Location: Gensokyo, UK |
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It makes a lot of SENSE. I also see you ignored all the posts in between. Group A does not buy Niche Anime Series A because it has no dub. Company A sees that Niche Anime Series A does not sell well proving to them that it was a GOOD IDEA that they did not include a dub because they would have LOST money. Even if the list of people who pre-ordered Emma as shown on the DVD is off by a fair margin, having only ~200-500 people pre-order when you're wanting 1000 people will cause any company to take a step back and pause when it comes to spending more money on a project especially when your potential income could be as low as 1/5th of what you planned. While this will be interpreted as 'buy everything Company A produces!' a better interpretation would be 'stop whining when you shoot yourself in the foot for not supporting niche anime releases'. I guess I'll never understand the rabid dub fans like you who think dubs are free and grow on trees and then wonder why all their niche anime doesn't get one when they don't support previous releases. So yes, you do have the right to not buy something you don't want. I also have the right to tell you to stop whining when it's your own fault. |
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Dargonxtc
Posts: 4463 Location: Nc5xd7+ スターダストの海洋 |
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Just so everyone has their facts straight. Emma was announced as a sub only release. It was sub only before they even had 1 pre-order. There was no wait and see how much pre-orders sell, or *shock* take a "step back" we need to reevaluate our marketing. I don't know if you knew that or not, but you don't sound like you do above. Even if they sold all 1000 pre-orders in the time that they planned wouldn't have changed anything. What your asking is for 5,000 people to pre-order a product that they don't want, all in the hopes that the company who already stated it wouldn't include a feature that everyone is asking for, and never said if we hit X mark we will include said feature. Well that's all well and good, but the company in all likelihood will still decide that it won't include said feature and everyone is screwed. And that makes zero sense. |
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Tenar
Posts: 12 |
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The only one rabbi and whining was you. I'm happy with the manga. I loved it. I'll probably pick up the new one from that author. Just don't see any need to buy the anime with no dub. I buy a lot of anime. I support the market. I put my money in products I want. Thanks tho for making this a wonderful experience. It's always great to hear comments from nice people like yourself... |
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