Forum - View topicNEWS: Law Journal Article Supports Fansubs
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jsevakis
Former ANN Editor in Chief
 Posts: 1684 Location: Los Angeles, CA |
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Actually Japanese law does extend quite a bit more protection to the original creator than Western countries do (and this is actually kind of a huge problem, as it makes it very hard for licensors to respond quickly to new technologies; many manga artists who have to approve everything aren't all that tech savvy or have an inflated idea of the value of their work). However, larger manga publishers tend to wield more control over both the final product as well as its intellectual property rights. Calling any Shonen Jump property the sole creative output of its manga artist is naïve at best. A manga artist could potentially sue to stop or modify a derivative work of their creation, but usually it's not in their best interest. They likely had to assign legal control to someone else to get it made in the first place. But that's not what this essay proposes. It proposes that FANSUBBERS be the arbiters of what is and is not the original intention of the work, and that the law should respect that. Anyone taking that idea seriously is misguided at best, and willfully trying to drive their agenda of legal-downloadin' free-for-all at worst. |
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Josh7289
Posts: 1252 |
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Edited anime is almost always available in unedited form. It's called "importing the Japanese DVDs".
Watching unedited anime is not a right, even if it's only available edited in the US (and also even if it's not available here at all). If a fan wants to view an anime in an unedited form that's not available as such in their own country or language, then it's the responsibility of that fan to learn the Japanese language and simply import the Japanese DVDs. Again, anime is not a right. |
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CyberTRex8u
 Posts: 47 |
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all in all, i think this will all just blow over. Sure it got us all riled up, though im sure our legal system will agree on the fact that illegal distribution i.e. Fansubs, are not something to be made legal. it would affect international trade laws and stuff like that. so even though this pipe dream seems like a God Send to Fan sub Loyalists out there, something like this will never go through.
and for those that are still complaining, just buy the DVDs or Download from iTunes, i feel the animators should get some money for their amazing creations, why cant you? they still offer them with Japanese Voices and GOOD english sub titles now in days |
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Kireek
Posts: 274 |
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Everyone keeps going on about fansubs and not one single law court is gettin of there arses and doing somthing about it. See CR law courts go shut it down.
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Brians9824
Posts: 281 |
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Once again this isn't a proposal or a plea to change a law. Its a look at a law designed to view it in a different light and propose changes. Laws are examined and re-written on a constant basis and papers like these can sometimes lay the framework. People need to look at what this really is. An academic look at the merits of a law and some possible re-interpretations based on it. I'd also like some more info on what the process is when a show is edited for TV here. I can't imagine the Japanese creators said ok go ahead and cut out 1/2 of my show and play the rest with shows like Cardcaptors. Not to mention i'm sure japaneese creators don't want their OP and ED's edited to fit for time, but merely allow it to occur to make sales. |
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Goodpenguin
Posts: 457 Location: Hunt Valley, MD |
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Also with respect, while most academic 'Discipline Journals' (especially law and medicine) do contain serious research/writing, they also often contain a wide assortment of student writing that's more or less an exercise in critical thinking/debate. Student articles are just that, student articles. This isn't Justice Scalia or Alan Dershowitz putting something out, thousands of students write pieces for academic publications every year and there more or less advanced versions of 'school essays'. The piece this student wrote admits that to follow the argument one has to drastically reinterpret both our current understanding of 'Moral Right's and 'Fair Use' to even be practical, so were not talking about some ground-breaking, tight-as-a-drum theory here. The first half goes on about 'Market Failure', which is also a novel concept of the law that now lawyers can dictate to commercial business what level of success they should be having. It's a student with a 'critical thinking' essay, no more, no less; probably everyone in his class has one in the publication. |
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Kireek
Posts: 274 |
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You know somthing I have been watching anime for a good 15 years back in the day i saved my paper round money to go buy a video tape... Nowday I am just abover nationel minimum wage and I still go out and buy boxsets and enjoy it.
Everytime I go onto some random anime forum be it this or anywere else all I see is topics cropping up about fansubs followed by people ripping into each other on whats right or wrong and im sick of it. I acctually know someone in IRL whos 34 years old and had been watching anime for 20 years but he became that dissalusioned with the whole fandom and fansubs situation he just stopped I think I may very well follow him. Sorry no offence to anyone. Last edited by Kireek on Thu Jul 31, 2008 5:22 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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MrVince
Posts: 67 |
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(comments deleted by author)
Last edited by MrVince on Tue Jun 09, 2009 1:53 am; edited 1 time in total |
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jsevakis
Former ANN Editor in Chief
Posts: 1684 Location: Los Angeles, CA |
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It's seldom that something gets butchered that badly, and many of those incidents are the result of either a business deal that left control up to the US company entirely, bad communication between the companies involved, or simply the licensor not really caring what happens to the product. All of these are extremely rare these days (and licensors have, in general, become very strict about what happens to their property), so that's why there are so few of these incidents in recent years. But I do notice you seem to be putting anime in general up on this great artistic pedestal. While that may be true of a few OAVs and movies, 90% of anime is meant to sell product and make money; a cold and cynical cash grab. Just like most American television and movies. The people who created it did so as a work-for-hire with the end goal of making their company money. The company, and therefore the creator's goal is to make money in overseas markets like the United States. And so any changes that they are lead to believe will assist them in this goal are likely to get approved. Often an American company like Nelvana or 4Kids will say, "we understand the American market better, so please just leave this to us." Most Japanese companies have learned that this is a bad idea. In years past, they didn't care so much. But there are some things that there is simply no getting around if they want to go mainstream in the US: children's television rules are horribly draconian compared to Japan, and you simply can't show blood and smoking and drinking or reference death at all on children's television. Most children's advertisers won't advertise on a show targeted at girls, because girls will watch boys' cartoons too and they could spend that money on a show with appeal to both genders. So, when faced with that issue of whether to change it and have a broadcast, or not to change it and have a worse shot at broadcast, the choice is clear. OP/ED sequences may be pretty and have lots of people that appreciate them, but usually they're a way to get a free 3 minutes of footage that doesn't have to be animated from scratch every week, and promote a pop musician. If something has to be cut for network time restrictions or marketing reasons, you can be sure that will be the first to go. All this isn't to say such commerical anime has no artistic value, but often preserving the "purity" of a show is simply not on the radar of the people wanting to make money from it, the producers. They will simply go where the money is. And with the market for the purist anal-retentive fan community drying up like a corpse in a desert, who can blame them for choosing to risk alienating those few paying fans if it could mean having a mainstream hit? |
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Moomintroll
 Posts: 1600 Location: Nottingham (UK) |
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That depends on the laws of whatever country you're in. Here in the UK, it's perfectly legal to import DVDs provided that they're for personal use, their contents don't breach UK laws or customs regulations and you don't sell them on again to a customer within the UK once you've recieved them. |
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penguintruth
 Posts: 8461 Location: Penguinopolis |
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I find this all a rather moot point, seeing as how anime productions are rarely heavily edited by licensors, and in fact, it was pretty rare even a decade ago to see that, except for a few big productions like Dragon Ball Z and Sailor Moon, which were so high profile, people assumed everything was being cut up. Look at your Gunsmith Cats VHS tapes, nothing cut there. Macross Plus? Bad video transfer, but no cuts. Lain? No. Evangelion? No cuts. Some things were cut for TV, but heavy anime edits was, has been, and will be a rare event, usually something done for broadcast regulations. To the fans of the shows that do get cut, it seems like the end of the world, but that isn't a reason to blow it out of proportion.
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Brians9824
Posts: 281 |
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You also have to remember this whole article was started before un-edited One Piece dvds existed in the midst of the big controversy over them. That in part I bet gave him the basis and inspiration to choose this as a topic.
It raises some intresting points and in no way condones fansubs. Hopefully he will post here but I wouldnt expect anything for a few days as we have Yasumicon starting tomorow and everyone is busy. |
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eviltimes
 Posts: 116 Location: Callisto |
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I still think that if you get anything without paying for it it's called stealing.
But what if I can't buy it? Alexander (Reign : The Conqueror) Angel's Egg Can't buy them. (I can download them. Burn them to a DVD and they almost look like a good TV signal. Prefer to buy them on DVD, though.) Or if something is not available in your Region? GITS 2: Innocence English dub (not available in Region 1). I have no answers (that law student doesn't have a clue). 
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Goodpenguin
Posts: 457 Location: Hunt Valley, MD |
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I think you mixed that up a bit, they set a 'capped entry' level based on the total number of first year students. For students who then wish to join the publication, they then compete by a mix of grade point and a writing competition. On a quick note, let's not mix up 'Professional Academic Journal' and general 'scholastic' aimed 'Academic Journals'. A lot of schools have the latter in various fields, and I review/mentor/edit for two at my university. Depending on the stature of the school a 'scholastic' journal may have some serious, 'wide scope' research/articles in it, but most are aimed towards helping the student body develop analytical skills or get them thinking about ongoing issues/concerns related to their academic discipline. From the Boston University LR website itself:
When a student submits a 'note', they don't face a review as if their defending a masters dissertation, it's generally just checked over for basic structure, coherence, and relevance. Students are encouraged to display analytical and arguing skills, mentors/professors aren't there to harshly measure the academic 'worth' (outside of a few exceptions) of the article. In fact, if anyone follows the in's and out's of academia (all the cool kids do, I swear!), you know even an 'Academic Publication' of such renown as the Harvard Law Review caught some heat recently after the rather questionable quality of a portion of it's student 'notes' garnered attention. So again, don't oversell the 'legal soundness' of a student 'note', many times they are largely exercises in creative thinking. Now back to your regularly scheduled programing.. |
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Xanas
Posts: 2058 |
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So fansubs might be legal 1% of the time. Neat, but doesn't really influence anyone here.
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