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NEWS: 3rd Man Sentenced for Anime Sharing with Share Program

It will be fairly easy when they do start taking action. Nearly all the top fansubbing groups and communities are in plain sight.

Clodus wrote:

These have been appearing alot recently. Looks like japan is cracking down. Even though I do like fansubs. If the US and other countries were more strict then perhaps fansubs would disappear though I imagine its not so simple.

On the contrary, this is all one incident which has been brought up over and over for the past couple weeks. It just seems like it's happening alot because the news has been repeated over and over again everytime there's the slightest development.

You know what? I've just realized how fansubbers can solve their problems of people coming after them through the authorities. If these fansubbers would take into consideration their time and money into negotiating with anime studios to acquire the rights to anime series, then they wouldn't be having this problem. So, they should get huge amounts of money and pay the anime studios for their material. Then it would be licensed by them and then it wouldn't be illegal, because then they'd have to start charging people to download what they acquired, to make back what huge hit they took in acquiring the material LEGALLY.

Back on topic, my understanding of legal and judicial proceedings is extremely limited, so could someone explain was a suspended sentence means?

My biggest problem is that far too often I find the Official subs hard to read on the screen. I also kind of like it when fansubs use different colors and fonts for the subs. So yes I download fansubs, but I also buy the DVDs when/if they become available.

Teuvan wrote:

I don't care about dubs myself. However, I do wish companies would start making good subs. I have enough scattered knowledge of Japanese, especially of words that are difficult to translate and/or don't have good English equivalents, to know when a sub is half-assed. Most professional translators take the most literal route, leaving the dialog without feeling and stripping of it of the original intent. On the other hand, many fansubbers take a more artistic approach to translating, and make an effort to maintain the original intent rather than do a direct translation. Another problem is DVDs. It's not so much that DVD prices are ridiculously bad. The problem is that more than 90% of anime can only be "legitimately" watched through DVDs, and that's unacceptable. If the American television industry was in the same situation, they'd be in the same situation as the anime industry. Without proper exposure to the works, people won't be willing to shell out $30 for four episodes on a blind gamble. To me, the best solution to this is taking advantage of Internet television. This is starting to grow as a trend, but it still has a long ways to go. If distributors could offer anime on a website in the same way television works, with advertisements and all, they would increase the exposure to their product, thereby increasing DVD sales, and they would earn the extra income from advertising and subscription fees. Some channels, probably most, could be subscription based, while others could work like broadcast television, relying only on advertisements. Either way, until both translation quality and Internet television become commonplace, I have no sympathy for the American anime industry. I'll keep expanding my 400 volume manga collection, though, because the companies in the manga industry have already taken the proper steps to ensure their success in business. But as far as anime goes, I'll keep downloading fansubs and ignoring DVDs until companies actually do something that makes them worthy of my purchase.

-original intent? Unless you've spoken to the anime creators, I can safely say you're throwing out a HUGE assumption. And good luck talking to most anime creators about fansubs, chances are they'll bite your head off. Because, you know, you are basically stabbing them in the back by leeching off their hard work. As for "literal" vs. "artistic", such subjective terms could be debated forever. Japanese is a tricky language to translate, and I fail to see how fansubbers would have any better methods than pros in the industry. At least the pros have means to contact anime creators, meaning their decisions are at least somewhat trustworthy. Trusting a fansubber, on the other hand? He's just some guy, with no connections. Color me unimpressed.

-you want to know WHY the American TV industry isn't in that situation? It's because their shows draw a larger audience than anime does. And no, that has little to nothing to do with the R1 industry's choices. Fact of the matter is, if you approached 100 random strangers, they'd be more likely to be a fan of LOST or Dancing with the Stars than they would anime. Anime has a SMALL fanbase compared to other entertainment, and the industry can only expand it so much. And really, why should they do all the work? If I love something, wouldn't I take the effort to get others to like it? A non-anime fan isn't suddenly going to think, "gee, I should check out Funimation's website!" That's up to us fans.

-so apparently Viz offering $2 episodes for download and Funimation offering FREE episodes to preview shows isn't enough? Also, anime costs quite a bit to get over here and make available. Big-name companies certainly aren't going to pay for ads to be shown in something as small as anime, and smaller companies' money won't be enough. Once again, anime does NOT bring in audiences anywhere near the number that most TV shows do.

-sympathy? Who cares if you sympathize with them? If you do not buy official anime DVDs (and guess what, if you really hate R1 that much, there's always official R2 DVDs), you are a leech. There's no getting around that. You are not supporting anime. You are giving a big "screw you" to all the Japanese anime creators, and they are mad at you for it. So you can claim to be a big fan of Miyazaki, Watanabe, Anno, etc., but they certainly aren't going to be a fan of yours.

As far as original intent goes, you're right. I'm making a huge assumption. But you know what? When I watch WiND's subs for Higurashi no Naku Koro ni back-to-back with Geneon's, I notice something. I notice the dialog translated by WiND seems natural. It's easy to read and makes perfect sense within the given context. It's well-written. In other words, it's good.

In contrast, I constantly hit bumps reading Geneon's subs. The general meaning is still there, but it's distorted. The dialog is unnatural. Some of the wordings are strange, and distracting. Overall, the differences in their translation bother me.

The same is true for anime. In Japan, the anime industry would not exist as it does now if it weren't for television. Not many people are willing to gamble their money away on DVDs of a series that they've only heard about. DVDs sell because people want to own a copy of their favorite movie or series, and be able to rewatch it whenever they feel like it. Only the minority of DVD sales come from people who are just curious, who just want to check something out. Most people aren't gamblers, whether it comes to mainstream movies or anime.

Since it's nearing 1AM and I'd like to wrap this up, I'll end my essay on Internet television and move on to your last paragraph. Buying R2 DVDs really isn't the most viable alternative in the world, seeing as how importers make more money from it than the original creators. Besides, I don't speak Japanese, so what the hell good will R2's do me anyway?

I salute these brave soldiers.

Sorry but very often fansubs are way better than official releases.

As far as original intent goes, you're right. I'm making a huge assumption. But you know what? When I watch WiND's subs for Higurashi no Naku Koro ni back-to-back with Geneon's, I notice something. I notice the dialog translated by WiND seems natural. It's easy to read and makes perfect sense within the given context. It's well-written. In other words, it's good.

In contrast, I constantly hit bumps reading Geneon's subs. The general meaning is still there, but it's distorted. The dialog is unnatural. Some of the wordings are strange, and distracting. Overall, the differences in their translation bother me.

Now as far as supporting the original creators goes, I'd be glad to. Hell, I buy artbooks and merchandise until shops are giving me free gifts and practically begging me to come back again. But I will NOT pay a company for a service that is being delivered with noticeably superior quality by a groups of fans for free, if only for the pure sake of depriving that company of my support.

Moving on to the R1 industry...once again, you're right. Lost certainly has a bigger fan-base than pretty much any anime in America (I'm not certain when it comes to things like Dragon Ball and Pokemon, though that's beside that point). However, the main reason Lost has that fanbase is because it's easily accessible.

How much smaller do you imagine Lost's fanbase would be if episodes were released on a straight-to-DVD basis, right from the beginning? Do you think the series could survive on DVD sales alone, without ever having received the invaluable exposure from being on television? It couldn't. At best, it would end up having a cult following.

The same is true for anime. In Japan, the anime industry would not exist as it does now if it weren't for television. Not many people are willing to gamble their money away on DVDs of a series that they've only heard about. DVDs sell because people want to own a copy of their favorite movie or series, and be able to rewatch it whenever they feel like it. Only the minority of DVD sales come from people who are just curious, who just want to check something out. Most people aren't gamblers, whether it comes to mainstream movies or anime.

As far as what Viz and Funimation are doing...well, no. It isn't enough. But I will admit that it's a step in the right direction, and I respect them for it. Internet television is the future, whether we're talking about anime or American live action. More and more people are opting to watch television online, and for good reason. They can watch it when they feel like it, without having to plan their lives around a television schedule. In a few years, I wouldn't be surprised to see Internet television overtake traditional broadcasts.

Now the thing is, once Internet television becomes dominate, there will be a lot more opportunities for niche programming such as anime. Many companies have already realized the advantages to online video advertising, and it won't be long before the trend catches. With Internet channels for everything from anime to old westerns to engineering education, advertisers will be able to target specific audiences unlike they've ever been able to before. Indeed, advertisers willing to support anime channels won't only exist, they'll be common.

Since it's nearing 1AM and I'd like to wrap this up, I'll end my essay on Internet television and move on to your last paragraph. Buying R2 DVDs really isn't the most viable alternative in the world, seeing as how importers make more money from it than the original creators. Besides, I don't speak Japanese, so what the hell good will R2's do me anyway?

As I mentioned earlier, I do buy artbooks, merchandise, and other things. But I don't do this to support the industry. Anyone who buys something, like R2 DVDs, purely for the sake of supporting the industry is an idiot. I buy these things because I like them. Because I want to have them. Because they're worthy of my money. And chances are, the original creators are making more off every dollar I spend on artbooks and figures than every dollar you spend on American DVDs.

Of course, the reason I don't buy R1 DVDs is because I find them to be unworthy of my money. Because I don't want to have them. Because I don't like them. This, however, does change when companies actually offer a product that's worth having. I plan to buy Bandai's Gurren Lagann sub sets. This is because they seem to be doing good translation work, I'm a huge fan of Gurren Lagann, and unlike most anime distributors, they're using good business sense by releasing episodes in large bundles. In the past, I have bought some R1 DVDs, but only those that I'm made to want. Which is, sadly enough, very few indeed...

Well, that's that.

Teuvan wrote:

As far as original intent goes, you're right. I'm making a huge assumption. But you know what? When I watch WiND's subs for Higurashi no Naku Koro ni back-to-back with Geneon's, I notice something. I notice the dialog translated by WiND seems natural. It's easy to read and makes perfect sense within the given context. It's well-written. In other words, it's good. In contrast, I constantly hit bumps reading Geneon's subs. The general meaning is still there, but it's distorted. The dialog is unnatural. Some of the wordings are strange, and distracting. Overall, the differences in their translation bother me.

I completely agree with you.

To people who thinks that official releases are better than fansubs / scanlations, I would like to make them notice that most of the time the official releases adapt contents and names in a way that changes the original meaning or at least detracts something from the original experience. Also, yellow subtitles are horribile. Period.

Furthermore, official releases are too slow for a world where internet allows real time communication everywhere (potentially, at least).

Finally, even if anime, books, movie, music and videoagames aren't necessary to live, they are are often culture and not only pure entertainment, and sometimes even art.
Air, food, water and shelter are the only things people need to survive. To actually live, though, we need music, stories and games.
It's a whole different matter.

But Teuvan was just arguing that official "adaptations" are being too literal. So you two are actually not agreeing with each other.

And don't tell me you prefer white subtitles, because that's what anime fans were complaining about on the early days of sub VHS. (And dark subs on dark backgrounds don't work.) Most anime fans then settled that yellow subs with black borders are the best compromise. So if you want to blame anyone for yellow subs on your anime, blame anime fans.

That's why a few are now experimenting, like Gonzo with Tower of Druaga, which you can purchase for viewing with subs mere hours after the Japanese broadcast. Eventually, I see more companies doing that. Then, you can purchase all to your delight.

Everybody eventually dies, but how many truly live?!
Still, you can choose your hobby. There's more than one music, story, or game. Some are just more expensive than others.

Another problem is DVDs. It's not so much that DVD prices are ridiculously bad. The problem is that more than 90% of anime can only be "legitimately" watched through DVDs, and that's unacceptable. If the American television industry was in the same situation, they'd be in the same situation as the anime industry. Without proper exposure to the works, people won't be willing to shell out $30 for four episodes on a blind gamble.

Either way, until both translation quality and Internet television become commonplace, I have no sympathy for the American anime industry. I'll keep expanding my 400 volume manga collection, though, because the companies in the manga industry have already taken the proper steps to ensure their success in business. But as far as anime goes, I'll keep downloading fansubs and ignoring DVDs until companies actually do something that makes them worthy of my purchase.

As far as original intent goes, you're right. I'm making a huge assumption. But you know what? When I watch WiND's subs for Higurashi no Naku Koro ni back-to-back with Geneon's, I notice something. I notice the dialog translated by WiND seems natural. It's easy to read and makes perfect sense within the given context. It's well-written. In other words, it's good.

In contrast, I constantly hit bumps reading Geneon's subs. The general meaning is still there, but it's distorted. The dialog is unnatural. Some of the wordings are strange, and distracting. Overall, the differences in their translation bother me.

Now as far as supporting the original creators goes, I'd be glad to. Hell, I buy artbooks and merchandise until shops are giving me free gifts and practically begging me to come back again. But I will NOT pay a company for a service that is being delivered with noticeably superior quality by a groups of fans for free, if only for the pure sake of depriving that company of my support.

Moving on to the R1 industry...once again, you're right. Lost certainly has a bigger fan-base than pretty much any anime in America (I'm not certain when it comes to things like Dragon Ball and Pokemon, though that's beside that point). However, the main reason Lost has that fanbase is because it's easily accessible.

How much smaller do you imagine Lost's fanbase would be if episodes were released on a straight-to-DVD basis, right from the beginning? Do you think the series could survive on DVD sales alone, without ever having received the invaluable exposure from being on television? It couldn't. At best, it would end up having a cult following.

The same is true for anime. In Japan, the anime industry would not exist as it does now if it weren't for television. Not many people are willing to gamble their money away on DVDs of a series that they've only heard about. DVDs sell because people want to own a copy of their favorite movie or series, and be able to rewatch it whenever they feel like it. Only the minority of DVD sales come from people who are just curious, who just want to check something out. Most people aren't gamblers, whether it comes to mainstream movies or anime.

Since it's nearing 1AM and I'd like to wrap this up, I'll end my essay on Internet television and move on to your last paragraph. Buying R2 DVDs really isn't the most viable alternative in the world, seeing as how importers make more money from it than the original creators. Besides, I don't speak Japanese, so what the hell good will R2's do me anyway?

As I mentioned earlier, I do buy artbooks, merchandise, and other things. But I don't do this to support the industry. Anyone who buys something, like R2 DVDs, purely for the sake of supporting the industry is an idiot. I buy these things because I like them. Because I want to have them. Because they're worthy of my money. And chances are, the original creators are making more off every dollar I spend on artbooks and figures than every dollar you spend on American DVDs.

Quote:

But Teuvan was just arguing that official "adaptations" are being too literal. So you two are actually not agreeing with each other.

I'm from Italy, so I can talk about what they do to anime in my Country, I don't know much what they do in the United States. There are good adaptations in Italy, but they are few exceptions and I actually bought some of them (mainly, Studio Ghibli movies).

Also, you should keep in mind that I wouldn't buy all the anime I watch anyway, but I would make a selection. The problem is that I can't see dubbed anime to save my life, and in Italy they don't broadcast subbed anime (or even movie or live-action series, for that matter).

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And don't tell me you prefer white subtitles, because that's what anime fans were complaining about on the early days of sub VHS. (And dark subs on dark backgrounds don't work.) Most anime fans then settled that yellow subs with black borders are the best compromise. So if you want to blame anyone for yellow subs on your anime, blame anime fans.

I prefer subtitles whose colours and font are suited to the anime, so they costantly change.
Anyway, white subtitles with a decend black border are always better than yellow ones, because the former are made using neautral colours, while the latter don't and so ruin the "mood" of the anime, visually-wise. I draw and paint, so I know that colours must be used in a careful way. Sorry, but yellow subtitles make me puke, as any other subtitles that stand too much.
Ideal subtitles must merge with the anime but still being well-readable.

Also, fansubbers usually translate signs, put notes when necessary, karaoke, and many other little, nice touches that I can't find in most of the official release.
And if fansubbers make spelling and even translations mistakes sometimes, they make up with the passion they infuse their releases with. I's something that you feel.

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That's why a few are now experimenting, like Gonzo with Tower of Druaga, which you can purchase for viewing with subs mere hours after the Japanese broadcast. Eventually, I see more companies doing that. Then, you can purchase all to your delight.

It depends. I need about 2 episodes to decide if a 11-13 lenght anime is good, 3-4 episodes for a 24-26 one, and even more for longer shows.

The best things would be internet TV with advertises and even subscriptions, why not, with the possibility to watch all the anime, with subtitles and at the same time or max a couple of weeks after the Japanese releases.

Internet permits this, if anime companies are still using obsolete distribution methods isn't my fault. After all, I still support them with all the merchandise I buy (which is a lot, trust me ) and even some occasional official DVD or musical CDs. And I'm not even counting the manga and manga/anime related novels (I've something like two libraries full of them ^^' ).
This just to prove that I do love anime, and that people watching fansubs can love anime as well as who only watch legit releases. Even more, who watchs fansubs can potentially gain a broader vision of the anime industry as a whole, and support more the companies who really deserve it.

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Everybody eventually dies, but how many truly live?! Still, you can choose your hobby. There's more than one music, story, or game. Some are just more expensive than others.

Read better what I wrote. For me these things aren't just hobby, and they shouldn't be only that. Going to see a movie, going to a concert, reading a book or watching an anime is good for our mind, in general, and every human being should experience that. Of course, there are other important things like sport, or drawing, or writing, but what I meant is that who says that anime or similar things aren't necessary imho has a really semplified vision of what a life should be (unfortunately, there are people who haven't even enough food or water in this world, but I think that you can agree with me that they would live better lives if they could, and also watch anime, why not? ).

I seriously doubt half of the fansub translators could even speak business Japanese well enough to negotiate licenses, let alone having experience in business negotiations. If you think an animation production committee is willing to let distribution rights go for the same price to fansubbers as to legitimate companies, then I want to have what you are smoking.