Forum - View topicNEWS: Toren Smith predicts manga industry to go bust
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littlegreenwolf
 Posts: 4796 Location: Seattle, WA |
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I agree. The Sandman series is a gem in graphic novels, and has had many different artist with different styles contribute to it. Why can't their be a manga style version? Sandman is reknown for it's many different styles of comic art. As a longtime fan of the Sandman series, I was a bit worried about the new Death at Death's Door series, but after buying the first volume and really enjoying a comedy pov of the Endless, I really don't find anything wrong with it, and plan on buying more when they come out. Here's a thread about the Death manga we started a while ago: animenewsnetwork.com/bbs/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=5635 |
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musouka
Posts: 707 |
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http://fire.prohosting.com/musouka/bf.jpg Please copy and paste. I fail to see how that's a "cute" or "fluffy" level of violence. Though, if you need more, I could show you the picture with the disemboweled guy. |
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Juunko
Posts: 5 |
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Will the manga industry to go bust? I certainly hope not, as I'm sure we all do to a certain extent, but it will reach a saturation point and go downhill to a plateau where it will hopefully stay. Yes, we do have crap flooding the market. A.I. Love You? Please. Just stick with Love Hina, if you must.
I think that saying all Shoujo manga looks alike is biased. To someone who likes both shoujo and shounen, all titles look different to me. Now the character *inside* the books, some look amazingly similiar, and for the life of me, though I like Dragon Knights, they all look the same. Going on a brief tangent, I'm still mad they killed Kaistern... And about Yaoi/Shounen Ai. I'm a fan, but also of Yuri. They're funny, because how many people do I know that are gay and do such antics? No one. But not all girls are into yaoi. Some find it absolutely appalling and think it's the most digusting thing in the world and feel it should be banned. All my friends like it, but I've run into plenty of female fans who don't. You can't just assume that all girls like two guys making out. That's like saying all guys like two girls making out, and I've managed to find quite a few who think it's just a disgusting as some girls think about yaoi. Don't put everyone in the same boat just because you don't know anyone who's in the other, less filled one. And what's this about them all looking gay? A lot of them look down right masculine and are not on the same lines as Yuki from Furuba[Fruits Basket], Kamui from X/1999. Yeah, they're pretty sure, gotta look good, but they don't all look gay. Will people remember the likes of HanaKimi, Peach Girl, Mars? They sure as hell will. As one of my first Shoujo titles, MARS and Peach Girl are ones I'll always remember, because even though the storylines have been played out time and time again, they look good, and everybody needs Soap Opera drama at least once in their life, even if they're just reading it. How many shounen and shoujo manga alike are about saving the world? How many times has the world been 'thrown into darkness' and almost utterly destroyed by bombs and such, and do we still buy it? Heck yeah. Pretear, Ragnarok, Akira, even Sailor Moon and Dragon Ball Z, sold and still sell. Some formulas will be used until there's nothing left. Can you tell me what Shounen titles are going to be remembered? Really, I can't think of one because no Shounen titles, even bad ones, are coming to mind except Yu Gi Oh and One Piece... Yeah, girls are less likely to buy shounen manga with scantily clad woman all over the cover. I buy it, and laugh because they're funny. But a lot of Shounen manga isn't like that, or at least the ones brought over, except maybe Battle Vixens. THAT one was surprising at the end, being pretty graphic as far as most titles we have are concerned. Ragnarok doesn't, even though it's a mahwa. Naruto doesn't have scantily clad women, or Hikaru no Go, And other titles that they've brought over. And still, everyone keeps saying crap is flooding the market, but you have to give me examples. What crap? We don't need Yu Yu Hakusho, or Yu Gi Oh, Dragon Ball or Z, and the various ones on TV. A.I. Love You is retarded, and I can't stand it, though I did like Love Hina. Real Bout Highschool, even though I'm waiting for number 6 myself, is something I could do without, but what else is there? What is all the crap? If it's such crap, then why bother commenting. Tell the people it's crap. As to the crap, it comes from both. You have to weed out the Hunter x Hunter from the Yu Gi Ohs [Though I read/watch both], and find what you want. Stop complaining and research what you want. You go to the bookstore and buy the one you want. Look at others you think you want to buy and look them up on the internet. If you don't feel like going through all that, flip through each. Which one do you like the art better? Storyline looks best in which one? Is it all cheesey dialogue? A quick flip can flush out a lot of the bad ones from the good ones. |
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jsyxx
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I bought that entire show. I think discussions like this are kinda pointless and counter-productive. Goes back to the grass is always greener on the other sid concept. There is more anime and manga now at cheaper prices then there has ever been, yet people still find something complain about. I for one am over-joyed I'm actually able to buy shows like Kikaider, or get a nice chunk of Osamu Tezuka's manga released over here. I don't think all the anime fans are going to suddenly disapear. The trend-riders will eventually leave, but I think the trend-riders aren't that too huge of a part of the market that goes out and buys a load of DVDs and manga a year. Manga isn't like pogs or something, its more the a new format of entertainment. |
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Toboe
 Posts: 138 Location: Rakuen |
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1. Pretear isn't even out yet in Manga form. What "sales figures" are you using here? 2. Crappy manga (subject to interpretation but most will tell you that these aren't "good" titles): Ai Yori Aoshi Bride of Deimos AI Love You Campus Detectives Duklyon Demon City Hunter Demon City Shinjuku Demon Palace Babylon Dragon Hunter Chronicles of the Cursed Sword Galaxy Angel King of Hell Rebirth (This one is particularly terrible) Just a Girl Let's Stay Together Forever Negima ALL of the "Kung Fu Comics" Rave master Red Prowling Devil Revenge of Mouflon Skull Man ...The list goes on and on and on and on. Frankly I think most of the garbage on the shelves these days is Manhwa, which is only going to grow in numbers. The Koreans can draw, but they can't seem to write very well; some of their stories are good but for the most part they're terribly cliched and lame. CPM is dumping out second-rate, bottom-shelf, cheaply-licensed manga titles by the dozen. I wouldn't say the manga bubble is in danger of collapsing, but if this trend continues, there will be more bad on the shelves than good. So check your facts next time, pal. No offense. |
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GATSU
Posts: 15304 |
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Zac: Yep. I know I should be suspending some disbelief when I read this stuff in general. Hell, there are a lot of pretty boys in Yu Yu Hakusho and Recca, and I actually believe they can fight. The difference, though, is that the authors actually give them believable powers given their statures and body-builds. I mean unless it's like "What If?", I don't expect IceMan to have the same powers as Apocalypse anytime soon, so why the bad word would I believe that in a manga? It's the same reason I don't believe someone who's all skin-and-bones, like Uma, can fight, when she has no muscle to show for it during her whole training on Kill Bill, and she conveniently has a lot ot close-ups which hide how bad she probably is in real life.
leslina:
musouka: Makes me think "Miami Gay Guys". I just find it hard to believe a guy with that small build can hold an assault rifle that heavy with just one hand. Juunko:
But would they still buy the manga if any of those guys and girls were on the cover, and not because it actually had a story?
Now you're just living in fantasy land.
Actually, I think it's guys, cus we just go straight for porn.
The problem is there aren't enough people buying what I want, which means certain titles are getting cancelled. |
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littlegreenwolf
Posts: 4796 Location: Seattle, WA |
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Oh yes, the coming back from the dead, dragon eyes/Jagans in people's forheads, and giant energy balls from an index finger are soooooooooooooooo much more realistic then the powers in X.
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jsyxx
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What? Are you serious? I haven't read this one yet, but its based on Shatoro Isinomori's work. he's one of the gods of manga up there with Tezuka and Matsumoto. Although, I understand he gave the duties of making this manga to someone else on his death bed. I've been looking forward to reading this one. But is this manga really bad, or are you just saying this because you looked at it for a second in Barnes and Noble and didn't get it. |
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lianncoop
Past ANN Contributor
 Posts: 1705 Location: Indiana |
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It's not...bad bad, but compared to other things, it's not that great. Really, there's not much to get; guy is upset about losing his face, soul, and life and wants revenge. Just because it's based or done by a forefather of manga doesn't guarantee it's the greatest thing ever. |
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GATSU
Posts: 15304 |
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greenwolf: The thing is, they don't get the powers overnight. They have to work to build them. With X, they can do anything right off the bat. And the reason people don't buy the stuff I like is not because it's "crap", but because they don't really care about variety. As I said earlier, they want "homogenized product". That's what sells, and I can understand why Toren would rather leave the market, rather than be forced to release cheap knock-offs like ADV.
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littlegreenwolf
Posts: 4796 Location: Seattle, WA |
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You obviously haven't looked into the X series enough, because everyone just doesn't get their powers overnight. Some were born with it, some have been training in it since they were born. The only one who really got their powers overnight was Fuma, which had to do with his connection to Kamui who was born with his powers. Both Subaru and Seishirou were raised in rival clans, and trained in their arts since birth. Arashi wasn't born with her power, she was adopted by the Ise Shrine, and was trained to become the Hidden Shrine Maiden. Seiichirou comes from a long line of windmasters, and there's even a chapter dedicated to his training of his nephew, Daisuke. They all aren't born with their powers, and they all don't get them over night. X is over 18 volumes long, so CLAMP has made sure the powers the characters have are explained. [Edit: Alright folks. I had locked this thread earlier because of the bickering, but I felt it was unfair to the people who were making valid claims. Play nice. -b] |
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Kal
 Posts: 130 Location: USA |
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Well, not exactly happy, but bah  And forgive me for not reading Fist of the North Star. You can't really force people to read things that aren't to there taste, just like we can't force you to read shoujo titles (or at least.. that's what I'm getting from you by the way that you're going). And if you're thinking that girls who read CLAMP's works refuses to touch any shounen manga, then you are certainly misinformed. I enjoy CLAMP's works -- although some can be a lil bit too sweet/silly -- I actually do read shounen titles as well, but in this case, it happens to not be Fist of the North Star.
Believe me, guys with small build can be freakingly strong ^^;
Oh please. Not everyone judges a book by its cover. Sure, eye candy never hurts, but a story with substance is what really pulls it through. And being somewhat on the same subject (judging things by looks), I doubt you would pick up porn if it didn't have sexy girls on it. But then again, who knows 
Really... can't you allow people the right to have their own point of view? Just because it clashes with yours doesn't mean that they are wrong.
-.-; Just suck it up, other titles will come -- just keep bothering the companies  So just because the masses aren't buying what you like, that doesn't mean you have to bitch and complain about it.. :\
Not true.. I may not have the same tastes as you in what is a "good" manga, but I still like variety as well.
Well... the same goes for Japanese manga and any other type of comics as well. Don't pick on the Koreans ^^ ::pokes:: B'sides, there hasn't been a large circulation of licensed manhwa in the US yet (or at least, I don't think so.. dunno... I haven't had time to go to the bookstore in sooo long  no $$), so give it a chance ^^
::hugs Zac:: My thoughts exactly ^^ Hm... does anyone get the feeling that some people are slightly homophobic?? Ah well... anyhow, I just got bored and needed a stress reliever from some stuff, so whee.. -_-; But ya know, it's really surprising in how many posts this thread has gotten o.O |
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GATSU
Posts: 15304 |
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greenwolf: Guess I have to repeat myself since my last thread was deleted. The characters just don't look like they "work out" in X.
Kal: Ok, what shonen manga do you read? And I don't think it's impossible for a guy with a small build to be strong, but when even the guy who played the Punisher is shown carrying an assault rifle in both hands, you have to recognize that those things are pretty heavy.
So when the industry gets oversaturated, and they leave, who's going to publish what I like, because they'll all be wary about publishing anything, unless they can pull off some cheap publicity stunt like the death of Superman.
Such as?
Actually, I live in West Hollywood, gay capital of L.A. I just like strong males in my entertainment: gay or straight. It's annoying when people categorize gay people in terms of Richard Simmons or that psycho from American Beauty. |
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musouka
Posts: 707 |
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::rolls eyes:: Ah, yes, I suppose I had forgotten that shounen manga are the height of believeablity when it comes to slender pretty boys being able to take down muscular people five times their size. But a guy in a manga lifting an assault rifle with one arm for less than a chapter...man, that's just crazy talk! Anyway, my original point was that the picture, accuracy or not, was hardly an indication of fluffy or watered down violence. Which you then completely sidestepped and used to attack the looks of a character within the series. Why not just admit you were wrong about the original point and realize that neither type of manga is a bastian of realism.
While I can't speak for her, I know I like a wide range of manga. Anything from Ring ni Kakero (so shounen it will hurt your teeth) to Marginal (shoujo sci-fi). Hell, usually I'm reading a shoujo and shounen series at the same time. Right now it happens to be Moon Child and Onikirimaru. What I really want to know is what shoujo series have you read? Do you even give them a chance, or are you so caught up in the looks of them that you can't even deign to check one out in depth. If so, I don't think the ones you should be accusing of shallowness are the shoujo readers. |
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ANN_Bamboo
ANN Contributor
 Posts: 3904 Location: CO |
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*groan* Did you ever stop to think that it was deleted for a reason? And therefore you should, uh... NOT post it? Because it didn't contribute to the discussion? And that reposting something that was deleted was against the rules? Shounen manga is no more believable than shoujo. Sure, it's unbelievable to see a scrawny pretty boy beat the crap out of everyone, but it's just as unbelievable seeing a guy with 20x as much normal body mass shooting energy balls from his hands. Shoot, if you saw Jet Li on the streets and didn't know who he was, he'd look like some normal salaryman who didn't spend all his time at the gym. Or Sammo Hung, a fat-ass who could kick your ass from front to back. ANYWAY, I think that there's a chance the manga industry will hit a recession, but I really don't think it's in danger of busting. Let's say the market gets saturated with carbon copy pieces of crap, loses a huge sack of money, and hits a slump. Once that happens, the market will thin out again and there'll be room for new things. Comics are a big part of both Japanese and American pop culture, and there's nothing that could ever make the entire industry bust forever. |
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