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infinitebeauty wrote:

I mentioned the stigma because I just came back from an arts camp where my friends and I were teased (people made snide remarks about us, and a girl yelled at us to 'have fun being normal') because we take pride in our appearance, can hold conversations, and have diverse interests. We were socially awkward through not being socially awkward. So I may have generalized a bit out of frustration.
If someone is ridiculed 'no matter what' then they should absolutely be proud and boost theyr self-confidence. It's an attractive quality, and those who have it generally find it easier to make friends. The people who feel that they are ridiculed 'no matter what' when in reality they are making absolutely no effort to fit in...I have less sympathy.

I was very frustrated in the later years of elementary school, and for at least half of high school, because I tried to make friends or find some common ground with my peers. But it often didn't amount to anything. And the rumours certainly didn't help. Especially when it seemed that teachers weren't making efforts to put an end to them.

I had friends, but it was always difficult for me to make friends when I was worried about how they would feel about my artsy interests. After I changed high schools, more people started to admire my growing skill and were more open to talking with me.

When I went to college, things were different because I was surrounded by other people who were interested in visual arts, and I felt more comfortable. It was the first time I was well known in a positive light.

I think some people become jealous if you have an "unusual" interest and can have a "normal" level of social interaction. I think it stems from their own feelings of awkwardness and frustration that they have trouble fitting in with mixed company.

I know that I have felt jealous of people who seemed to value their appearance before anything else. It always frustrated me that these people were popular, yet seemed very superficial. That's not to say you can't look good and be a well-rounded person. I just got this "I don't care, my parents will give me everything" attitude from some people and it frustrated me that they seemed to have no desire to improve themselves or exert the effort required to accomplish something independently.

I also feel like victims of bullying end up making a choice to either be compassionate or become a bully themselves. I don't think that any victim of bullying could say that being bullied didn't affect them in some way.

I feel that I am more empathetic and compassionate because of my experiences. I also have little tolerance when I see bullying happening, and I've said things to kids in an effort to make them think more about acceptance than segregation. (I used to be a leader for Brownies and Guides)

I think that often, mistakes and assumptions are made when dealing with bullying that really don't help the situation at all. Ignoring the issue doesn't help. The bullies should be disciplined for their actions.

Adults are, after all, disciplined for harassment and assault.

Panda Man wrote:

I have to agree with Sydney Durkin, and Ryume. They basically described all the "fans" at my school. The first person I met at school with an interest in anime was likr the person Sydney described. I asked him what he liked, he said Naruto first, then basically went on to name the rest of the mainstream ones. Now, I watch these too, but, when I asked if he watched any others, such as, Azumanga Daioh, Neon Genesis Evangelion, Higurashi no Naku Koro Ni, Hell Girl, School Days, Ai Yori Aoshi, ETc. He stared at me blankly. I later learned that he thought anime was to expensive, so he only watched what was on Adult Swim.

Anime can be expensive considering certain details. I, for one, don't like to buy every series I'm intersted in because I usually watch it once, then I'm done. But that's just me...I'm not really a tv person, mostly because time is precious to me. I'm also a college graduate with two part-time jobs, enters writing competitions for extra money, and has medical bills (up yours American insurance) and student loans to pay off. I'm not saying I have it bad; my parents let me live at home without paying rent, and my work commute is a five minute drive/fifteen minute walk from my house, so gas hasn't been a problem. But even I know where my priorities are.

Adult Swim is something I appreciate. Netflix is a really good substitute, but it can take awhile to complete a series on one of their cheaper subscriptions.

Really, it's annoying that you'd consider me a sub-par anime fan because I haven't watched tons of the more obscure series and because I mostly follow what's available to me for cheap.

konkonsn wrote:

Adult Swim is something I appreciate. Netflix is a really good substitute, but it can take awhile to complete a series on one of their cheaper subscriptions.

Really, it's annoying that you'd consider me a sub-par anime fan because I haven't watched tons of the more obscure series and because I mostly follow what's available to me for cheap.

I think that these degrees of elitism among anime fans are just weird. I don't think I'll ever understand it. What difference does it make if you like only a few series? Or if you like animation in general?

Neither of these make you a bad fan, or a lesser fan.

Being obnoxious and saying you are the "highest grade of fan" when you maybe only watched a few shows on TV -- that I have a problem with.

But I think that, in any fandom, there will be the elitists who don't seem to understand that whether a person has seen a little or a lot -- it doesn't matter. If we have a common interest, let's leave it at that and be civilized with each other.

Also, people in fandoms where there can be cross-over fans, need to learn to be more respectful. It is not that uncommon to like both Star Trek and anime. There's no reason for argument or making idiotic comments when you KNOW there are people around who may have an interest in both.

Sorry to have offended your fragile sensibilities, Zac. I missed the part where I included "nuff said".

I was just throwing out some that popped out of my head after reading the Question of the Week.

I apologize that I didn't notify you that I'm going out of town for the next few days, but I'll take the time out of visiting my in-laws to write a nice 5000-wordcount of flowing prose on how series like Angelic Layer benefit highly from the kinetic energy of animation and how still images can only convey so much motion to the reader. (FLCL, Black Lagoon, Claymore are others that benefited highly from flowing animation)

Or that, with a larger production team, a script can be more highly refined while not having to meet the next deadline for a publication anthology. (This can also destroy concepts as well)

Indeed, the fans themselves are often the most embarrassing part of being an anime fan.
Though I'm Japanese, it doesn't mean I know Japanese well o_o (Without the furigana in manga, I'm hopeless.)
There are a few other people that are otaku at my school, and though they don't do the "OMG KAWAII BAKA NEKO DESU NEE!" thing, there's the occasional "Say something in Japanese!" or the "Mizu mizu mizu!!!" (when asking for the water bottle). Oy. >_>;;

...Actually, the thing that irks me the most about some fans is that they leave reviews on the iTunes store's Tokko or Noein page/any other anime that pretty much say "OMG iTunes needs more Naruto or Bleach, oh and I can't say what this anime here is, I've never seen it" Then why are you reviewing it?!?!? AUGH.

I like the mainstream stuff too. Bleach and Naruto are fun. But I'm not going to say that they're the only things that are really fun to watch. There's obscure anime like Higurashi no Naku Koro ni Kai and CLANNAD that are well worth watching as well.

I agree with Teriyaki Terrier, where I'm open to constructive criticism of a show I like. If you're going to put me down for liking a show, I'd like more of a reason than "omg it's not naruto/bleach.", or "omg it's naruto/bleach" Razz

It's amazing that most people are irritated by the fans. Haha. Although, I must say that I do agree to some extend. Plenty of people that I have met loved Bleach and Naurto...to which I am not fully dedicated. They all do run around with the head bands and what not which does get annoying. But in the end, I'm just happy they like anime. There may be a chance to broaden the horizon or teach them how to have decent conversation without the random quote shouting. There is still hope....I think.

@Barachem: This was exactly my point... I wasn't saying it was the greatest thing ever, I CLEARLY stated that there is an animated comedy I hold in higher rankings, that was Mission Hill.

I'm definitely a part of that vocal minority. In fact, I never went and screamed and raved about it. It was a fun activity for myself and a friend. The weeks he'd come over, we'd always watch the 2 new episodes he hadn't seen yet and that was about it.

The time I've been most vocal, is now. The Lucky Star fanbase IS NOT THAT HUGE. Seriously, I've met one or two people on other forums who actually 'get' the show.

There HAS been more detest and disliking for the show than praise. I've seen it here, I've seen it on sites like Animesuki and I've seen it in real life. I wasn't saying the guy had to like it but SERIOUSLY, when you throw Lucky Star into the Inuyasha, Naruto and Bleach crowd, that's just going a BIT too far. They are just DIFFERENT styles of writing, artwork and just, the feel.

Lucky Star is safely tucked away in its own category of comedy, a slice of life/otaku geared sitcom. I came about and said what I wanted not because I'm a DIEHARD FAN, but because I see it senselessly beat up by wannabe critics and people who generally hate the anime fandom... Like the person who sent in the letter.

I see this happen with many shows. People making jokes like calling Clannad (And yes, this is from one of the -chans) Clan'AIDS' and Lucky Star, Lucky ****... I presume you can make out the word yourselves. Just... biased and meaningless hatred.

There's just a confusingly large portion of fans out there who seem to feel the need to attack other animes just because they don't like them. It's fine to say something like "eh, I don't get that so I'm not fond of it" but there's no need to say something like "Eh, I don't get it, so it probably sucks."

I could easily list 2-4 animes that are just in my "I don't get them" crowd, but it would be for personal reasons... That alone is what every fan should respect for one another. Much like how I respect that Naruto fans, for whatever reason I don't get, enjoy Naruto.

*finally end long winded and probably dragged out statement*

Last edited by HeeroTX on Fri Aug 15, 2008 8:45 pm; edited 1 time in total

Whether or not you agree with the rest of his submission to AnswerFans, I think this snippet from AJ sums it up perfectly:

Basically, I'm embarrassed by the vocal minority

Sometimes this is displayed by people bitching about all the "teens", sometimes it's displayed with comments about the "cosplayers" sometimes it's just "fans in general". The fact is, there are really annoying PEOPLE in anime fandom, and lots of people in the majority hate THOSE PEOPLE. We know which cross section they're in and think "man, if only we could get rid of that group". The fact is that anime "fandom" is big enough now that it's basically just an internet connected high school (not just in age). "Oh the jocks are arrogant and can't see this is good too" "oh the freshmen are a bunch of immature babies" "oh the cheerleaders are a bunch of stuck-up divas" Sound familiar?

But on the cosplay score, seriously people need to chill out. WTF? So some kid didn't make their own costume, who cares. I remember when costumes mostly looked like crap or were all pretty much "off the shelf" but people wore em mainly just because THEY LOVED THE ANIME (or the character). Who CARES who gets more photos taken? (rhetorical question) Or what not. (ps: cosplay awards have GOT to go, and I personally hate the whole concept of "cosplay guests" at cons unless the con typically has "fan" guests like also club presidents or webmasters or some other "non-visual" people) But welcome to the cult of personality, here's your robe.

who_is_friend wrote:

Kyogissun wrote:

Dorcas_Aurelia wrote:

Kyogissun wrote:

I continue that list:

...
Higurashi no Naku Koro ni (But that's because I love the extremely dark concepts beneath the benevolent looking surface. Seeing the characters go from normal to crazy is just priceless.)
...

Except that wasn't based on the manga, both were based off a visual novel game, and the answerfans question requests an anime that was based off a manga.

I believe I went and checked it out, the anime came out after the manga.

Visual Novels and Manga kinda go together hand in hand, Manga just visualizes the more intense situations.

So the Higurashi anime is, IMHO, superior to the manga and visual novel. And I read a translated version of the first chapter long ago and found the anime better.

Wow... um..... no.

The Higurashi manga is far superior to the anime, of which only one arc from the original was done up to par with the visual novel, that being Onikakushi-hen, the first one. The rest were laden with poor animation, entire monologues and character motivation being cut, and many mystery-solving elements being cut out. The deaths are much more brutal and detailed in the anime (particularly spoiler[Rika's death in Meakashi-hen]. Yikes).

If you only read one chapter of the manga, you have nothing to base this assumption off of. The Tatarigoroshi-hen manga in particular is very well done, especially given the plot gutted travesty that was the anime equivalent.

The novel, the novel, the NOVEL. I read the first QUESTION ARC OF THE VISUAL NOVEL. The first 'chapter' to the overall story.

And what part of IMHO (In my honest opinion) don't you get? Please, I'm sick of people on this forum trying to tell me my opinion is incorrect. I made it quite clear I'm avoiding doing the same in one of my original posts in this thread.

On the note of information being left out in the anime, you know what? I LIKED that. As a result, I did research on the series, hitting up wikipedia and asking around forums for information. I understood the anime more and because I didn't happen to know of any scans of the manga series, I NEVER GOT TO READ IT SO PLEASE FORGIVE ME IF I AM SUDDENLY A BAD FAN.

*sigh*

HeeroTX wrote:

Whether or not you agree with the rest of his submission to AnswerFans, I think this snippet from AJ sums it up perfectly:

Basically, I'm embarrassed by the vocal minority

Sometimes this is displayed by people bitching about all the "teens", sometimes it's displayed with comments about the "cosplayers" sometimes it's just "fans in general". The fact is, there are really annoying PEOPLE in anime fandom, and lots of people in the majority hate THOSE PEOPLE. We know which cross section they're in and think "man, if only we could get rid of that group". The fact is that anime "fandom" is big enough now that it's basically just an internet connected high school (not just in age). "Oh the jocks are arrogant and can't see this is good too" "oh the freshmen are a bunch of immature babies" "oh the cheerleaders are a bunch of stuck-up divas" Sound familiar?

But on the cosplay score, seriously people need to chill out. WTF? So some kid didn't make their own costume, who cares. I remember when costumes mostly looked like crap or were all pretty much "off the shelf" but people wore em mainly just because THEY LOVED THE ANIME (or the character). Who CARES who gets more photos taken? (rhetorical question) Or what not. (ps: cosplay awards have GOT to go, and I personally hate the whole concept of "cosplay guests" at cons unless the con typically has "fan" guests like also club presidents or webmasters or some other "non-visual" people) But welcome to the cult of personality, here's your robe.

I think the ENTIRE internet is like that and not just the anime fanbase.

So... It seems like your analogy is right, just off scale-wise. Get what I mean?

I too do not get rabid fandom of anything, especially cosplaying. I find both the super elaborate Di Gi Charat costumes pleasant and the cardboard FMA Armor Suit cosplay's equally entertaining.

Small extra comment to throw in there, the letter from "AJ" I kinda wonder about... Because the way he talks about it IMPLIES he meant MAJORITY and that he got the two words mixed up, I mean, look at it:

(In fact, I'll change minority with majority)

Quote:

Basically, I'm embarrassed by the vocal MAJORITY--the ones who label Naruto, Inuyasha, Love Hina, Lucky Star, or any other overrated or flat-out bad anime as masterpieces created by geniuses, the ones who think snarfing down ramen and Pocky all day while wearing cat ear hats and watching downloaded hentai makes you cool, the ones who think knowing what "neko" means makes you Japanese... The ones who make the rest of us look like complete fools.

I think you are giving too much credit to this guy. I also am beginning to get the vibe that Zac may have posted one too many hypocritical letters, but that's just an assumption, I'm probably wrong.

The Ramblin' Wreck wrote:

Sorry to have offended your fragile sensibilities, Zac. I missed the part where I included "nuff said".

Knock it off, you broke the rules, we don't allow people to just list shows like that without any further comment and you know it. It's been like that for a while.

Yeesh.

Being an anime fan (or a fan of anything for that matter) is a paradox: You like the fandom, but you hate the fans, or at least a certain cross-section of them.

I think the internet became a double-edged sword. On the one hand, it made it easier for fans to connect with each other, share their interests, and discover new series they might not have heard of otherwise. On the other hand, anonymity brought about by the internet has dashed that level of civility needed when conversing with fans face-to-face or even on the phone. Even letter writing carried more civility than today's forums and emails. Sure, there was hate mail, but it was easy to disregard and were rarely published in magazine letters to the editor except for the occasional lulz.

Nowadays there are entire communities dedicated to the hatred of characters, series, and entire genres and how much they suck. Anonymous users escalate flame wars to apocalyptic levels whenever someone disagrees with their opinion. Technology has made it easier for fans to connect, but it has also made it easier for the less desirable elements of fandom to make themselves heard, and boy do they ever. Writing an email or posting on a message board takes a hell of a lot less effort than sending a hand-written letter or postcard through the mail.

If you don't like something, why be so obsessed with making other people see it your way? Ignore the haters and stick with those who enjoy it, too.

Hagaren_Otaku726 wrote:

...Actually, the thing that irks me the most about some fans is that they leave reviews on the iTunes store's Tokko or Noein page/any other anime that pretty much say "OMG iTunes needs more Naruto or Bleach, oh and I can't say what this anime here is, I've never seen it" Then why are you reviewing it?!?!? AUGH.

LOL Agreed, that drives me nuts.

As for the Answerfans replies, it's kinda sad to see all this "interfandom hate". It seems that all people wanna do these days on forums is talk about how horrible members of one of the following groups tend to be:

1) Yaoi fangirls
2) Cosplayers
3) Naruto/Bleach/Lucky Star/moe/whatever fans

It's almost as if people on the internet are trying to reassure themselves that they are somehow better than these pathetic, obnoxious, socially-retarded fans.

Thanks to the internet, I was pleasantly surprised to find people at my first anime con were NOWHERE NEAR as embarrassing or rude (or smelly) as I expected. I realize the annonymity of the internet lends itself to this situation and that obnoxious members of these fangroups (and others) exist, but with all this negativity, it's no wonder first time attendees are afraid of cons. They're scared off before they've even tried it.

/rant

tasogarenootome wrote:

Thanks to the internet, I was pleasantly surprised to find people at my first anime con were NOWHERE NEAR as embarrassing or rude (or smelly) as I expected. I realize the annonymity of the internet lends itself to this situation and that obnoxious members of these fangroups (and others) exist, but with all this negativity, it's no wonder first time attendees are afraid of cons. They're scared off before they've even tried it.

I agree. I went to my first con (Ikasucon) this year, and pretty much everyone was nice and pleasant, and everyone just wanted to have a good time. I guess the portion of the anime fandom that likes to start flame wars and general anger on the Internet know not to show their faces at cons because their kind isn't welcome there.

Lanisatu wrote:

I think that these degrees of elitism among anime fans are just weird. I don't think I'll ever understand it. What difference does it make if you like only a few series? Or if you like animation in general?

Neither of these make you a bad fan, or a lesser fan.

I don't actually get offended by those comments. Wink

I was just trying to make it more personal, showing others that a person's actions usually have reasons outside of them.

In psychology it's called the fundamental attribution error, where people generally overemphasize the internal motivation for another person's actions while undermining how much external forces will influence those actions. I was just trying to show what external forces my actions were based on.

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