Forum - View topicNEWS: Oregon Man Says Son Borrowed Mature Manga from Library
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Keonyn
 Subscriber Posts: 5567 Location: Coon Rapids, MN |
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I think that sets a bad trend. The library is just a source for information and literature, it's not up to them to screen what they shelf and pull things from the shelf they feel is inappropriate. Maybe they should categorize material with mature content differently, but that's about it. Especially since what's inappropriate is entirely subjective. If the parent thinks their kid might get access to something they deem inappropriate then maybe they should, I don't know, be a parent? It's sad how much parents these days seem to think society and the rest of the world should be responsible for raising their kid for them. |
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Stullz
Posts: 96 |
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My 2 cents
Both are at fault. Libraries offer many of the same materials to borrow that Best Buy, Borders, etc... sell. Best Buy will (supposedly) ID anyone purchasing an R rated movie, M rated game or Parental Advisory CD (i think), according to law. As much as I hate censorship, society as whole has a responsibility to those around them. Hence, just like other media outlets a library should ID those underage or get parental permission. The libraries where I live also have movies and CD's... which begs the question, If this child had checked out A Clockwork Orange or Kid Rock's latest album, would he have been ID'd? It seems that the library thinks the laws about regulation and sell(borrowed in this case) of 'mature' titles does not apply to them. Those regs exist for a reason. The parent can not always be with his or her child. Many (in my area) would be happy that their child was actually AT a LIBRARY. Libraries are considered family safe in my area. The parent in this case is clearly overreacting. Bottom line. Everyone is responsible for everything. If people actually used common sense, this wouldn't be an issue. A little OT moment. About book ratings and such. Manga is the only form of literature to have a sytem, not even Frank Miller's Sin City or another comic I once opened (right to a hardcore sex scene) had no rating (Hard Boiled, I think was it's title) Considering the number of mature American comics it seems odd to me. |
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Dargonxtc
 Posts: 4463 Location: Nc5xd7+ スターダストの海洋 |
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Not an excuse but like I said, in a better world the library would apologize and the father would become informed. Punishment would almost certainly follow the kid. End of story, in fact there would be no story. Of course that isn't the case here, we can see both parties involved are unwilling to show any class. We also don't know what adult section this came from. As has been said, different libraries are set up different ways. Did he get this from the sex manual and smut section or simply the adult reading section(i.e. pretty much most of the library), or are both of those sections together. I have seen many different configurations myself, and it would be important to know what it was in this case. If they are separate, then why? And yes, I have read a Playboy in the library(to be fair I didn't see things like Penthouse, but then again Playboy is mostly articles(and yes I did read them  )). If the problem is with making this an absolute censorship issue, then I ask you to change the age of the boy to 5 years old. If the boy was able to access such things of course bad parenting is taking place. That's not the question. By having a zero standards policy, the library allows what would probably be considered abuse to continue. And the library lowers itself to the level of the bad parent. I expect that same librarian would refuse to hold the childs hand as he crosses a busy street. After all a street is as free access as one can get.
Look, policies are obviously made for a reason, and they serve a purpose. But more often than not they are written in a way that obfusicates common sense. And many a bad decisions have been made just because one was strictly following policy. And if you can't think of any examples that prove that statement true then you have been in a hole for the last 500 years. I am not saying the parents aren't wrong here, they are, I am just saying the library isn't fully right just because it is written down somewhere. Keep in mind this wasn't an educational book mind you, it was a book of entertainment for adults. The kid stands to learn nothing from reading this, except maybe how to properly tie and gag a female so her boobs stick out the most. By the library basically taking a stance of no reasonable discourse, then I can see many parents forbidding kids from going into such libraries. And that would be a shame, many kids love to read like I did. And I would think that would be something libraries would try to avoid. I am confident libraries can provide free access yet still not stand in the gutter. It's not that hard of a line to walk actually. I guess the kids can always get their information from the internet and their friends if they are forbidden. The only two sources on the planet known to be more reliable and accurate than 99% of all books in a library.[sarcasm] Basically less quoting policy and blowing things out of proportion, and more common sense. And there would be less molehills made into mountains.
No, not daycare. But checking out books falls well within the librarians job description. And a doing ones job ≠ raising someone elses kids. Yes yes I know *in a snivelling whinny voice*, "but policy dictates..." Edit: typo Last edited by Dargonxtc on Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:38 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Hagaren_Otaku726
Posts: 137 |
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The library around here hasn't had any public problems, but with unrestricted titles like Banana Fish (When I saw that one in my local library, which is in a retirement middle of nowhere Swedish "village" I almost busted up laughing.), Ai Yori Aoshi's final volume, and other things like Absolute Boyfriend, and whatnot, it's bound to be the target of a whining parent eventually.
I'm not too big on the whole library as a babysitter thing, so I'll have to say that it's mostly the parent's fault, and the kid's. I think that a good lecture would have been much more appropriate than the whole thing going public =P I might add that at most of the local libraries around here, checking ID's isn't an option usually, because they mostly operate on self-checkout because of the lack of staff. And I have a feeling that a "mature" section would only encourage kids to go over there. Maybe it's just around my area >_>;; The library is understaffed, so it's unlikely someone can stand there at all times. Actually, on a random note, because Saw IV among other titles are the "Unrated Version", they are thus easier to check out than the R rated movies available in the library. Is manga just picked on because it's already visualized for you? Because there are Harlequin novels available that are ten times racier than any comic I've seen in the library =D |
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prime_pm
 Posts: 2335 Location: Your Mother's Bedroom |
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You know, I'm not sure if they tackle this issue in Library Wars.
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Faceman
 Posts: 300 Location: Boston |
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They do cover issues like this in Unshelved, the best webcomic about librarians EVER (not scientifically proven). These two stripds both touch on the underlying issues: http://www.unshelved.com/archive.aspx?strip=20080729 http://www.unshelved.com/archive.aspx?strip=20080811 But if you've never read the comic, you should from the start. It's good, and on Sundays they have full-color panels summarizing and recommending books to read!! |
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Kyogissun
 Posts: 676 |
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Look, can we all agree here on one topic?
Chances are the kid knew what he was doing, much like any little kid with a violent video game (You know, the ones who either got an older kid to buy or one they stole), he got caught and probably said, "BUT DA LIBARY LET ME CHECK IT OUT!" or something close, as to avoid being grounded. We're all making too much out of this issue. Nothing will happen, the manga industry isn't going to be 'shaken' up and we'll be FINE. |
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Eos
 Posts: 168 Location: Jersey |
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I'm glad someone took the time to point that out, the label of "adult" for the library's section is rather misleading when applied to this story
Having worked in a library, I can say the majority of the collection is intended for adults (as in, not Green Eggs and Ham). I think Rezabek believes the library operates the same as a video game or DVD store, with material classified in ratings. Most books don't have content ratings. It's not library policy to inspect books before children check them out. How many copies of The Scarlet Letter come with "PG-13" branded on them? Last edited by Eos on Thu Aug 21, 2008 9:18 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Vampireseal
 Posts: 14 |
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Once again, someone wants to sue a library. I have seen materials in inappropriate places before. Just last week, I saw the manga for Battle Royale in the teen section of my library, a manga that has some rather explicit sex scenes (why the manga felt it had to have them when the novel did not I don't know, but that's another topic).
However, this same library also carries Anne Rice's Beauty series which is pure smut, and I've seen it (no joke) for sale next to the kids books in the book sale section. That being said, I don't blame the library. Those people work hard, and they can't read every novel to find which content is NC-17 and which isn't, nor should they.It's up to the parent to go through their child's books, same as it is in a video store. Speaking of video stores, I remember one time watching a mommy complain to a Blockbuster employee that their kid saw horrible scenes in that deceptive cartoon, Heavy Metal 
Of course the fact that the movie has an obvious R-rating she could have checked herself, completely eluded her. Perhaps were not being fair, though. I think the reason comics and cartoons come under fire so much is because to many Americans, comics and animation are still "children's" things. Some parents seem to have not caught on to the idea of adult animation or graphic novels, and feel more offended than if the child had picked up a copy of the aforementioned Rice's erotica. |
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-gecko-
 Posts: 285 Location: Near Seattle, WA |
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I can tell you that the Library shouldn't have to do what the parent of that kid should be doing; Parenting. I have a twelve year old daughter and we go to the Library all the time. I get manga from the Adult Graphic Novel section as well as the Young Adult section and she gets to read the latter. She asks me from time to time for her own Library card which I deny on the basis that, if she can't go to the Library by herself, she doesn't need her own card.
My Library doesn't have Librarians checking out books for you. There are kiosks for that that you scan your card and your books and you are on your way. Any parent in my area should either go with thier kids or trust that they taught thier kids the right way; not rely on a public servant to do thier job for them. I remember quite well back when I was that young, I would go to the Library on a weekend, riding 20 or so blocks on my bike to go look at the Heavy Metal magazines in the Library where I lived. I won't be letting my girls do as I did without proper guidance on what they can and cannot look at or check out. |
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fighterholic
Posts: 9193 |
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That's because the kids are supposed to be sweet "innocent" angels, and therefore are not held accountable. And that's the problem I have seen over and over again with parents. Parents these days don't have the common sense to discipline their children or teach them how to think on integrity. Heck, a lot of parents probably leave their children at the library just to get them off their own hands for a while. Since there is a very wide variety of subjects found in the many books in the library, you don't know what the kids are going to find. And whether it's good or bad for them, they don't know because their parents aren't telling them. If the kid involved in this incident knew what he was doing in renting a mature title to look at panties, then the parent is most definetly at fault. Why? Because that parent did not tell the child that he probably shouldn't be looking at that kind of material. |
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ikillchicken
 Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
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I know it's the standard knee jerk reaction whenever somebody complains about something like this to just blow it off and tell them to do some parenting. Now much of the time that's valid. Yeah, if you let your kid watch an R rated movie, rent an M rated game, etc. don't whine because it has inappropriate content. However, the key there is that they let them do that because kids can't see R rated movies, rent M rated games, etc on their own. Even a good parent can't watch their kids 100% time, especially as they get older. It's just not always feasible. That's why such things as ratings on movies and games exist. I mean, should we just get rid of that kind of thing? While we're at it, lets stop asking for I.D. on cigarettes too. Let's let kids buy porn and alcohol and get into bars and strip clubs too.
Yeah, parents need to keep an eye on their kids and be aware of what they are reading/watching/etc. Maybe this guy was negligent. Maybe not. I don't know the details so I'm not going to jump to a conclusion (shocking, I know). However, there are cases where kids get into stuff you wouldn't want them too and there's nothing short of chaining them to a post that you can do about that. That's why there should be systems in place to help restrict kids access to this stuff. We have it for movies, TV, games. Why should books, and especially comics be different? |
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Murasakisuishou
 Posts: 1469 Location: NE Ohio |
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I wouldn't expect the parent to be looking over their kid's shoulder all the time; that's impossible. However, there should be clear limits in place so the child knows what they're allowed to watch and what they aren't, and they should be trusted to police themseves and feel comfortable asking their parents about any 'adult' material they come across. It doesn't apply to me so much anymore, but my brother (who just turned eleven) knows what our parents approve of him seeing and what they don't, and if he's watching a movie on TV or something or looking at a website and all of a sudden there's a really violent scene or graphic nudity or something like that, he knows to turn it off or go ask Mom or Dad if it's okay to watch. My parents have always been very open with us and good about answering whatever questions we have about the world. I think good communication from the beginning is necessary if parents want to express to their children that some things are off limits and expect them to stick to those rules. |
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GrdAdmiral
 Posts: 101 Location: Tokyo, Japan |
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The problem with today's society, is everyone is looking for hand out. The whole reason he is consulting a lawyer, is because he wants to see if he can sue the City, (Because its a public library) for an undisclosed amount of money. It happens all the time, but I say go ahead and try!
 In this case, he won't get a dime!
Oh, if this helps.
Board of Education v. Pico (1982) Books may not be removed from school libraries simply because they may be offensive. Against the wishes of several students, including Francis Pico, the Island Trees Union Free School District decided to remove certain books from school libraries that it deemed to be offensive. The Supreme Court ruled that books cannot be removed from school libraries simply because administrators disagreed with their content. So legally, yea, its the parents fault, 100%!
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ikillchicken
Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
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Well you and your brother are obviously good kids then. It's just not that simple in most cases though. If you could count on kids to always listen to their parents this wouldn't be an issue. Kids are inevitably going to want to watch and read stuff their parents don't approve of and so some times they are going to go ahead and watch and read that stuff if they can get away with it. |
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