Forum - View topicNEWS: Oregon Man Says Son Borrowed Mature Manga from Library
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Nom_Anor
 Posts: 246 |
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People keep mentioning the fact minors can't see R-rated movies or buy M-rated games, but they are missing the fact these restrictions are only imposed by the store owners themselves. Legally, there is no problem with selling an M-rated movie to a 12-year-old kid; Target and Wal-Mart simply avoid it because they believe it will be bad for business. So long as material is not obscene--and in the legal US definition of obscene--it would be legally more troubling to deny minors access to "mature" manga than to allow it. I don't know enough about the said manga, but unless they depict sexual acts--which they might but probably don't, since they aren't really H-manga--and don't have significant literary or artistic merit, which is also difficult to judge, the state has no business in denying access to it. The reason stores and movie theaters can block out minors is because they are private entities: they don't have to respect the free speech of the creators. The reason porn shops and whatnot MUST block out minors is because the material is obscene, in the legal sense, and the government can impose laws against its distribution to minors(but not to adults). It may be irritating, even painful for children to be able to purchase borderline content like Battle Club and Battle Vixens, but at the same time those laws also keep children from being "protected" from such literature as Die Blechtrommel and Song of Solomon
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Akukaze
 Posts: 185 Location: Stony Brook, NY |
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Nom_Anor touched on this already, but let me clarify a little more. MPAA ratings, ESRB ratings, "parental advisory" stickers, and manga ratings (-especially- manga ratings) are all guidelines put in place by private, independent organizations to inform consumers and parents. With the exception of MPAA-rated NC-17 movies (I -think- though I'm not 100% sure) which are restricted by law, it is fully legal to allow a child of any age to see any movie they want. If a movie theater lets a 5-year-old see an R-rated movie, they are well within their rights. Now, most movie theaters enforce strict ID policies to keep parents happy, and some retail outlets do the same (around here they mostly don't bother) but like I said, they are under no legal obligation to do so. And then when you start talking about manga, which is rated by each individual company, not even by an independent board, the ratings become very subjective. One of my favorites is King of Bandit Jing being rated E, when in the first volume alone Jing flips the bird about three times. And then you look at BL manga like Only The Ring Finger Knows, which is rated 16+ for absolutely no obvious reason other than that two boys make googly eyes at each other. I would never want any child of mine to read Battle Vixens because the way I see it, it has no artistic value whatsoever (but that's mostly me being a snob). However, I would have no problem with them getting their hands on Watchmen, for example which has considerable merit. In fact, I would be quite upset if my twelve-year-old sun was stopped from reading it by someone other than myself. Art should not be restricted, and though Battle Vixens is very, very low on the art-trash scale, who am I or anyone else to say that it isn't art? |
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sunflower
 Posts: 1080 |
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It seems like a compromise would be a relatively easy thing to take care of. My library always had children's library cards and adult's cards. The library could simply incorporate into their barcode system something that blocks children from checking out anything self-designated Mature, including games, movies, and manga unless they had parental permission do to so.
That could simply be a flag that turns on/off the ability for that child to check out whatever he or she wished. This could even be a feature that was only turned on at a parent's request. Anything that didn't come with a rating already on it would be for all ages. Seem like it would just be a matter of slapping barcodes from a different set on a small subset of library acquisitions each week. Should a library have to do this? No. But I think if a library is willing to carry items that have been already been designated as inappropriate for minors, then they should consider paying attention to that. |
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melonbread
Posts: 317 Location: UK (London) |
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Parents. When will they grow up?
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Gilles Poitras
Posts: 476 Location: Oakland California |
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What if the kid checked out other adult material such a War and Peace, Catcher in the Rye, Tale of Genji...
Or would it be best of the library did not allow kids to check out such materials at all. Libraries are usually highly understaffed and the persons checking books out just do not have the time or training to evaluate what each kid is brining to the counter. And taht assumes there is not a self checkout system |
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miggie
 Posts: 30 |
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As someone who used to work in a library we have a ton of adult graph novel for people to read. Black Hole, Priest and and others. I tell the parent if they are with the child that it is mature and suggest something else. I'm only one at the library that knew about manga or graphic novels. The rest of the staff don't know and some of them think the books shouldn't be there because they're comic books. I got fired from my job because the town decide to cut funds to the library. The best thing to do is to educate the staff so this kind of thing doesn't happen. I've told kids that they could read something and my coworker told me we can't censor the patrons but i look at it as stopping a lawsuit.
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Omega13
 Posts: 78 |
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This one pretty much describes the whole thing (mature web sites, books, same difference): http://www.unshelved.com/archive.aspx?strip=20021029 |
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herbkir
Posts: 251 Location: Michigan |
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As a previous poster mentioned, I think the father got upset because it was a "comic book" and all comics should be "safe" for children. It's part of the general public's ignorance about the existence of comic books (manga) and cartoons (anime) aimed at older teens and adults.
Yes, papa did overreact. Unless he's one of those who believe that it's a citizen's duty to deny everyone access to materials he himself thinks are offensive. More than likely, though, he scented an opportunity to make money at the city's expense. But trial lawyers generally don't take on cases like this one where there's no chance of winning or being bought off. Particularly since the book wasn't something obscene and the library almost certainly offered parents means for restricting the kinds of material their kid can check out. (^_*) |
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beastman1975
Posts: 4 |
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oh my god how dare they suggest that parents should monitor their children isnt it tv's and video games job to do that? these same idiots are the type to try and ban novels in librarys because of thier mature and/or different natures . ever read tomyknockers by steven King? Or Tom sawyer ? Some people would ban these books because of subjects brought up in them. Its about time lazy parents started paying attention to their kids and OMG maybe
Parenting? but no some people start calling lawyers and want to make a quick buck cause they feel they or their children were wronged somehow. |
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beastman1975
Posts: 4 |
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On the flip side. whats to stop other parents from sueing a library because they refused to let kids borrow a book .not all parents deem certain things as innapropriate. bottom line is to many people do not pay attention to what thier kids are doing, or dont care (unless it can make them a quick buck in court). I worked at a ebgames for a few years and they started their poicy of not selling M rated games to minors which i followed cause i was paid too. but cant tell you how many times parents bought thier little snot nose's M rated games even after it was spelled out completly what was in it. Bottom line is good parents try to be involved in what their kids are doin as much as possible (everyone knows it cant be done 100%) and lazy parents blame everyone else . I was reading Steven King when i was around 11 years old and do not think any book should be banned for any reason anyone who suggest so can go join the nazi party and goosestep their way to the nearest book burning.
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fighterholic
Posts: 9193 |
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Umm, yes. He has obviously failed to take a look at the Sin City or 300 graphic novels, which could be and probably are considered, "comics." 
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Hon'ya-chan
 Posts: 973 |
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I found the guys work address, who wants to boycott and picket his workplace?
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Mohawk52
 Posts: 8202 Location: England, UK |
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This might answer the question as to why there isn't very many people populating the state of Origon. Very few know about sex, and those that do don't want to talk about it to their offspring when they want to know. Just think what would happen if that library had KnJ on the shelf and that boy had taken it home. (shudders at the thought.) 
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iceflame_uk
 Posts: 1 Location: Scotland, UK |
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I don't know how much the library system differs between the US and the UK but as the daughter of a librarian i think that the responsibility lies with the parent.
At least here in the UK libraries provide a wide range of services CDs, DVDs, internet, local information, local history ... not just books. The librarians have to look after all of these sections and as a result actually have a lot of work to do. Our entire local library is split into three sections with one person (my Mum) in charge of the whole adult section including any Manga (when they actually have it) which she knows nothing about. With so many different books of different genres (among other things) to look after librarians cannot be expected to keep an eye on what people are looking at and cannot be expected to actually know the content of every single book. If the parent doesn't want their child to read a certain book it is up to them to enforce that and at twelve it's not exactly out of the question that the kid knew what he was taking out. |
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Vampireseal
 Posts: 14 |
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I worked at Best Buy. We only carded for video games, never for movies. Apparently (at least in the state of Washington), a law was passed where and M-rated game could not be sold to minors. Why R-rated movies and TV series were exempt is beyond me, for some reason only games generated any uproar, generating a grass-roots movement of some kind that passed a law. That being said, I saw plenty of parents during the Christmas holidays (mostly fathers for some reason) buy M-rated games for their children. A few fathers actually got quite upset at me for having to show ID so their sons or daughters could have this brand spankin' new M-rated game they always wanted. Again, I think the vid game law was state-level only. If anyone has any further knowledge about it, I'm all ears. |
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