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ikillchicken



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 7272
Location: Vancouver
PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 5:08 am Reply with quote
Okay...

Firstly, you can hardly judge the merit of a single game based on the overall success of it's system. By that logic NRA Gun Club is just great.

I'm sorry but your augment seems to boil down to the following: You're attacking N64 as a whole but that's flawed. A console's success may have a big effect on a game's success but not it's quality. A game could still be amazing even if it's console otherwise is awful. Secondly, you just plain seem to not like M64 for your own personal reasons. You simply didn't personally care for it that much. That's fine but just because you don't really like M64 hardly makes it a bad game.

I'll concur about Sunshine though. I really liked it. I would still say M64 is my favorite but Sunshine is as good as Galaxy at least in my opinion.
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GATSU



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 15279
PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 8:56 am Reply with quote
ikillchicken: I don't like Mario 64 precisely because it embodies the flaws of its namesake system: full of potential, but lacking in depth.
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Top Gun



Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 4566
PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 11:18 am Reply with quote
The fact that just about every serious game critic out there holds up M64 as a watershed moment (at least for consoles) in 3D gaming makes me suspect that your viewpoint is decidedly in the minority. I've (sadly) never even played it myself, but when just about every gamer I know discusses it in terms of "it was amazing," I begin to suspect they're on to something. And I'm curious...what Majora's Mask framerate issues? I've gone through that title at least two or three times, and I've never had a single problem with its mechanics. I mean, if you had somehow tweaked your 64 to attempt to get it to play without an expansion pack, I could see that causing issues, but other than that...

But hey, what do I know? I've barely recognized a single game mentioned in this entire column so far, much less played any of them. The picture alt-texts remain hilarious, though.

(Oh, and for anyone keeping score, the Sonic series reached its pinnacle at Sonic & Knuckles. It's all been downhill from there, often quite steeply.)
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vtnwesley



Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Posts: 171
Location: Natrona Heights, PA
PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 11:36 am Reply with quote
Top Gun wrote:
The fact that just about every serious game critic out there holds up M64 as a watershed moment (at least for consoles) in 3D gaming makes me suspect that your viewpoint is decidedly in the minority. I've (sadly) never even played it myself, but when just about every gamer I know discusses it in terms of "it was amazing," I begin to suspect they're on to something. And I'm curious...what Majora's Mask framerate issues? I've gone through that title at least two or three times, and I've never had a single problem with its mechanics. I mean, if you had somehow tweaked your 64 to attempt to get it to play without an expansion pack, I could see that causing issues, but other than that...

But hey, what do I know? I've barely recognized a single game mentioned in this entire column so far, much less played any of them. The picture alt-texts remain hilarious, though.

(Oh, and for anyone keeping score, the Sonic series reached its pinnacle at Sonic & Knuckles. It's all been downhill from there, often quite steeply.)


In regards to Majora's Mask, everytime I play it it seems to have a very low frame rate (especially in crowded areas). Once you start going so low, it starts to bother me. I haven't played through Majora's Mask yet. Maybe the real thing is better. I've really only played it on the Gamecube compilation disc, which may have broken the game. Who knows. I guess it can't be THAT bad because it didn't stop most people from playing it. Maybe it's in my head.

I think you are probably right. Sonic & Knuckles is probably the pinnacle of Sonic, particularly when you combine it with Sonic 3. It pretty much doubles the length of the game, and adds some cool things to it. I find it ironic S&K is remembered so fondly concidering it's just a patch to their unfinished Sonic 3 release.

Hasn't quite been the same since. I liked most of my Dreamcast Sonics, but they certainly don't have the same staying power of the Genesis titles.
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Top Gun



Joined: 28 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 1:17 pm Reply with quote
I don't think I've seen the GC port of MM in action, but I do know that I've never experienced any issues back on the original hardware. It certainly doesn't run at 120 FPS or anything, which is more a function of its size pushing the 64's hardware than anything else, but it's definitely well above the level that I'd deem "playable."

I honestly always feel a bit funny calling myself a Sonic fan, since I've never so much as played five minutes of any of the 3D titles (and for that matter, the majority of S&K, but at least I've seen enough of that to know that it's quite awesome). However, the original games had such a massive impact on my early gaming life that I can't help but use that label on myself. To this day, I've never seen a game pull off the pure feeling of speed quite as nicely as they did.
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ikillchicken



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
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Location: Vancouver
PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 9:28 pm Reply with quote
Back when MM came out, I didn't even know what frame rate was so it's tough for me to say. I don't recall any problems though. My only complaint were some of it's slightly annoying mechanics. Losing all your stock items was a real nuisance and there were a few things I with wouldn't have reset.

GATSU:

Sorry, I don't really know what you expect. If anything I would say M64 had tremendous depth especially for it's time. It was a massive game with a huge variety of levels and objectives. Numerous little activities and hidden levels. Especially by platformer standards it was never repetitive. What exactly would you have liked to see from it to give it depth?
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GATSU



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 15279
PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 10:30 pm Reply with quote
ikillchicken: I would've liked to see bosses you don't just throw things at, for one thing. I would've liked actual challenges, other than just looking for stars. And I would've liked new enemies and powers. That's what they did in the other games which they eschewed in '64.
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GATSU



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 15279
PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 11:56 pm Reply with quote
Anyway, good news for yaoi fans. Cho Aniki will be on the VC! [Thanks to some user on toastyfrog.] Looks my "prediction" was sort of right.
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ikillchicken



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 7272
Location: Vancouver
PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 5:08 pm Reply with quote
GATSU wrote:
ikillchicken: I would've liked to see bosses you don't just throw things at, for one thing. I would've liked actual challenges, other than just looking for stars. And I would've liked new enemies and powers. That's what they did in the other games which they eschewed in '64.


We are still talking about the same game here correct? What boss did you have to throw things at? I can't think of any but I can think of several that required a variety of tactics. There was a huge variety of enemies including at least a few new ones. There were also 3 power ups to unlock (the same as Mario Sunshine and that's counting Yoshi), all of which were new to the series as I recall. Most importantly, I don't see how you can dismiss the whole game as "just looking for stars." Yeah, that was the end result but it was achieved through a variety of challenges. That was one of the games strengths. You didn't just find all the stars sitting around somewhere in the level. There were red coin stars, 100 coin stars, slides, bosses, and numerous other challenges.
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GATSU



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 15279
PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 6:08 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
What boss did you have to throw things at? I can't think of any but I can think of several that required a variety of tactics.


Ok, throw and punch.

And no, other than the enemies being super-sized, there wasn't anything new about them.

As for the power-ups, you didn't really use them, like in other games, since they were mostly for show.
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ikillchicken



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 7272
Location: Vancouver
PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 4:22 am Reply with quote
Oh come on. You're making very unfair simplifications. The only bosses you had to throw were the Bomb-omb King, and Bowser which considering that the prior was the first boss and the latter can hardly just be summarized as "just throw him" is pretty good. As for the ones you punch, again there was Big Boo who you did at least vanish if you faced him, and the Big Bullies who you had to knock off the edge. You're ignoring the numerous others too.

I'm pretty sure the Whomps, Bullies, the bugs from the cave level, the bugs that float on the water, those purple guys that throw you, the big eyes, haunted furniture, and bats were all new. There was also that one boss from the Sand Level. Also, while not traditional enemies, the Eel, those big metal boxes, that damn Rabbit, the monkey or the vulture who steal your hat, the sea monster...Not to mention, the change to 3D changed the dynamic of what most enemies did. All in all, I just don't see how you can complain.

The powers may not have been as commonly used as something like Sunshine, but I would still say they come up quite a bit.
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dangerwhat



Joined: 22 Jul 2007
Posts: 187
Location: Central Florida
PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 5:03 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
It may seem odd to choose a character from a series Capcom hasn't touched since 2000, yet the Legends versions of Mega Man and Roll were also the ones picked for Namco X Capcom. Perhaps Capcom's trying to tell us something.


yeah, maybe they like those games xD Maybe there is a new game on the way, who knows. It'd be about time for it >.>

Alisia Dragoon I had heard of but not played. Looks cool. I'm also glad about Ys Book I & II. I need to get that soon.

I like Super Mario 64. Its Mario and its a launch title so I forgive most flaws anyway. Its fun, if nothing else. What I DIDN'T like was how after it everyone thought they could do 3D games - which resulted in a whole mess of crappy 3D adventure/action titles.
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