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NEWS: Ponyo, Sky Crawlers Passed Over at Venice Film Fest




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GATSU



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:59 pm Reply with quote
I dunno. Is a movie about wrestling done Fight Club/Red Belt style really any different from the biopics like Beyond the Mat? Or is just favoritism, because of Aronofsky's indie roots...? In addition, "The Wrestler" is the second highest rated flick after TDK, so have critics and IMDB'ers suddenly lost it, by ranking genre films above art films? I remember them giving similar scores to Advent Children, so maybe that's the case.
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Proman



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 8:23 pm Reply with quote
Fight Club has about as much in common with Red Belt as, well, Palahniuk has in common with Mamet.

Anyway, big congrats to Darren who's "The Fountain" was a misunderstood masterpiece (and my favorite movie of 06). It'd so great to see him on top again after the critical lynching he received for that flick.

Both Sky Crawlers and Ponyo have received strong reviews at the festival and while they didn't win I feel their appearances there will give them a boost.
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Kagemusha



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 8:41 pm Reply with quote
GATSU wrote:
I dunno. Is a movie about wrestling done Fight Club/Red Belt style really any different from the biopics like Beyond the Mat? Or is just favoritism, because of Aronofsky's indie roots...? In addition, "The Wrestler" is the second highest rated flick after TDK, so have critics and IMDB'ers suddenly lost it, by ranking genre films above art films? I remember them giving similar scores to Advent Children, so maybe that's the case.


How do you know it was done in the "Fight Club/Red Belt" style (and for that matter, how the hell does Mamet's style equal FC?) And what IMDB are you looking at? The Wrestler has a grand total of 13 votes.

Quote:
Anyway, big congrats to Darren who's "The Fountain" was a misunderstood masterpiece (and my favorite movie of 06).


I liked the historical/futaristic sequences but the glue that held everything together (the modern sequences) was too melodramatic and predictable (the scientific male who can't let go, the artsy female who is one with the universe, etc.) A good film and much better than the graphic novel, but still underwhelming on the substance end of things.

As for the festival, Venice is pretty consistent in how it picks winners (at least compared to Cannes) and based on the plot description it isn't a huge shock that this won.
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GATSU



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 12:10 am Reply with quote
Proman:
Quote:
Fight Club has about as much in common with Red Belt as, well, Palahniuk has in common with Mamet.


Well, they're both "indie" takes on mainstream events, so...

Kagemusha:
Quote:
(and for that matter, how the hell does Mamet's style equal FC?)


Underground fighting rings? I know that a cliche not even FC pioneered, but it's funny that all these other "artsy" directors are now getting into this MMA stuff after Fincher, when it'd be considered "beneath" them if it they were offered the work a decade ago. I guess people got bored with films with gangsters who don't do anything for two hours...
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Brack



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 11:21 am Reply with quote
GATSU wrote:
Proman:
Quote:
Fight Club has about as much in common with Red Belt as, well, Palahniuk has in common with Mamet.


Well, they're both "indie" takes on mainstream events, so...

Kagemusha:
Quote:
(and for that matter, how the hell does Mamet's style equal FC?)


Underground fighting rings? I know that a cliche not even FC pioneered, but it's funny that all these other "artsy" directors are now getting into this MMA stuff after Fincher, when it'd be considered "beneath" them if it they were offered the work a decade ago. I guess people got bored with films with gangsters who don't do anything for two hours...


Mamet has been doing Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu for years, Red Belt comes out of that rather than "getting into this MMA stuff after Fincher".

And Fight Club has next to nothing to do with MMA. It probably has more in common with "Any Which Way But Loose".

But with Meatloaf instead of an Orang-Utan.
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GATSU



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 4:21 pm Reply with quote
Brack:
Quote:
Mamet has been doing Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu for years, Red Belt comes out of that rather than "getting into this MMA stuff after Fincher".


Even if that's the case, that wasn't his style of film until after Fight Club. So he obviously wouldn't be doing Redbelt, if it wasn't for the Fincher flick.

Quote:
And Fight Club has next to nothing to do with MMA.


Well, you could say the same thing about a lot of fighting games, too...
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Proman



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 4:06 pm Reply with quote
GATSU wrote:
Brack:
Quote:
Mamet has been doing Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu for years, Red Belt comes out of that rather than "getting into this MMA stuff after Fincher".


Even if that's the case, that wasn't his style of film until after Fight Club. So he obviously wouldn't be doing Redbelt, if it wasn't for the Fincher flick.


Gatsu, your attempts at sarcasm (?) are pathetic. By the way, do yourself a favor and actually watch Red Belt.
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GATSU



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:46 pm Reply with quote
Proman: I wasn't being sarcastic this time. I mean it. There used to be a time when wrestling and MMA was considered lowbrow to the movie-going crowd which would watch an Aranofsky or Fincher film. So, obviously, Fight Club changed the stigma of the "sport".
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Proman



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 1:01 am Reply with quote
Gatsu: Fincher's movie has absolutely nothing to do with this nor did it really change anything.

I can tell you this: when it was announced that David Mamet, a Pulitzer Prize winning playwright and director was going to be doing a "fight flick", most people's reaction was "why is he lowering himself to this level". Of course they never actually bothered to figure out his real intentions. And it still bombed (part of this had to do with how the movie was advertised but I don't want to go into this).

The reason I told you to actually watch "Red Belt" for yourself is because what you and other "fans" didn't realize, is that MMA was mostly a setting, a backdrop (albeit a fascinating one) for Mamet's newest con study. Sure, he's interested in the martial arts aspect too (as mentioned he's pretty advanced at martial arts), which is why he chose that particular setting but, a "fight movie" it is not.

And that's not what people wanted from that kind of picture. People mostly want to see to guys kicking the $hit out of each other which is why "Never Back Down" made money and "Red Belt" did not. The fact that most wrestling fans, don't even know what MMA is (despite the fact that it's popularity has been growing in the past couple of years) is beside the point.

Also, the fact that "The Wrestler" won the "Golden Lion" has little to do with it's subject matter but, rather with the movie's quality and the stength of it's leading performance. Aronofsky knows how to push his actors, so I'm personally very excited to see what he got out of Mickey Rourke.

P.S. What sport? Have you actually seen/read "Fight Club"?


Last edited by Proman on Tue Sep 09, 2008 12:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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GATSU



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 1:49 am Reply with quote
Quote:

I can tell you this: when it was announced that David Mamet, a Pulitzer Prize winning playwright and director was going to be doing a "fight flick", most people's reaction was "why is he lowering himself to this level". Of course they never actually bothered to figure out his real intentions. And it still bombed (part of this had to do with how the movie was advertised but I don't want to go into this).


That's weird, because I never heard anyone suggest he was "slumming". In fact, the film currently has a 72% RT score.

Quote:
The reason I told you to actually watch "Red Belt" for yourself is because what you and other "fans" didn't realize, is that MMA was mostly a setting, a backdrop (albeit a fascinating one) for Mamet's newest con study. Sure, he's interested in the martial arts aspect too (as mentioned he's pretty advanced at martial arts), which is why he chose that particular setting but, a "fight movie" it is not.


But it's obviously relying on some of the same cliches of those fight movies.

Quote:
And that's not what people wanted from that kind of picture. People mostly want to see to guys kicking the $hit out of each other which is why "Never Back Down" made money and "Red Belt" did not. The fact that most wrestling fans, don't even know what MMA is (despite the fact that it's popularity has been growing in the past couple of years) is beside the point.


I'm guessing Never Back Down made money because it was PG-13, and wasn't competing with Iron Man.

Quote:

P.S. What sport? Have you actually seen/read "Fight Club"?


Seen the film, not read the book. As for sport, I meant its twisted variation of MMA. There's definitely a method to that madness which people didn't really appreciate until they saw FC.
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Kagemusha



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 1:54 am Reply with quote
Quote:


Well, they're both "indie" takes on mainstream events, so...


Oh come on.

Quote:


Even if that's the case, that wasn't his style of film until after Fight Club. So he obviously wouldn't be doing Redbelt, if it wasn't for the Fincher flick.


"Underground fighting ring" is not a style, its a genre (or rather sub-genre). If your trying to insinuate that the making of Redbelt was made possible by Fight Club's success, then I could see that. But considering how little promotion it got other than a cameo appearance by Couture I doubt this was a studio-run project designed to cash in on the MMA-boom. Mamet probably just decided to use his hobby as the background for his latest story. I'm just going to end it there because I have no idea what this discussion is about anymore.

Proman: Nice analysis on Mamet but just to nitpick:

Quote:
Also, the fact that "The Wrestler" won the "Golden Palm"


You mean Golden Lion.
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