Forum

rankothefiremage wrote:

First this means nothing alot of bills leave committee and never go anywhere else.

Second, lets ask our selves do we really think having the goverment give big companies free legal rep is a good idea? Honestly they have enough money, they can do it themselves. Also this is targeted for Hollywood since even with them making more and more money EACH YEAR while the rest of US industry has crashed and burned, they still think that downloaders hurt their bottom line.

So who wants a police state that guards the corps over the people? not me.

-G
www.eff.org

I'm gonna have to agee. In a plain and simple, black and white deal, less government intervention is always better. Like someone else mentioned the tax payers shouldn't help pay to police copywright infringement for hollywood or even an R1 anime company for that matter, saying the companies can't afford to do it themselves is laughable since that's insinuating taking money from the common working many is more affordable.
If these companies want to crack down on illegal downloading then fine, but giving the government power in this situation just seems as if it'll do more harm than good.

Takeyo wrote:

Nom_Anor wrote:

Since the government can't go suing people without the company's will, nothing is probably going to change.

I donno. I haven't read the bill itself, but what I've gotten out of these reports is that the government can go around suing people willynilly on the company's behalf, without even asking the IP holder for approval. Someone, please correct me if I'm wrong.

Sure they CAN, but why on earth would they?

And if they did go around on their own suing random people for random copyright violations of US companies, don't you think those companies might get a bit miffed?

Now there's nothing wrong with protecting my intellectual property, but I sure as hell want to be in complete control over HOW I protect it.

Take this scenario: Disney puts out a new pixar movie and Ms. X's 12 year old daughter downloads a DVD rip of it because she spent all her allowance on ringtones.
10 days later the FBI arrive at her house, seize her computer, every other computer in the house. They find hundreds of non-public domain photographs in secret "cache" folders in her computer, mp3s of disney songs she'd ripped from CDs she borrowed from friends... etc.
A month later her mother is hit with a suit for $8 million dollars in damages from the federal government.

Of course the mother happens to be Katie Couric's cousin.

You see, as a company you have to be able to control the enforcement of your intellectual property of you can easily end up with far far more damage than the original theft in the first place. So while the law may ALLOW for the police to take independant action, I would find it implausible to the extreme that it would ever actually happen that way.

Xanas wrote:

So rather than having the industries defend themselves, we should have taxpayers paying to defend them.

Brilliant.

Well, and I hate to make this comparison, but it's like when the state prosecutes on the side of a rape victim. I am aware of the differences, but there are also striking similarities. Including the powerlessness of the plaintiff.

I am somewhat surprised that so many people are saying they even can defend themselves, when I thought it was pretty much established among the anime community that it would be impossible for the industry to enforce the law itself. This is of course due to the fact that it isn't just four or five people out there that are causing problems, but hundreds, maybe thousands(talking about actual fansubbers, not DL's).

I don't really like government intervention myself, but they are the only body capable of enforcing the law in this case. So it is either get rid of the law all together since the industry is helpless to enforce it, or actually defend the laws they make. Considering how low what these people are doing once you sit down and properly explain it, I don't think they will get rid of IP/copyright law anytime soon. So the only option is to try and enforce the law.

samuelp wrote:

It's hollywood. Hollywood plain and simple.

Well that's true they are the gorilla in the corner. And I am sure the first cases will be for them. But I am not sure even that will have zero effect on the illegal anime industry in America. Once some of these kids see what seems to be happening more and more often, I am sure it will cut down on the production side of the equation at least somewhat. Plus after a certain amount of time I am sure the rest of the entertainment industry, including anime, will get there fair share of attention. At that point I think the greatest effect will be made.

rankothefiremage wrote:

First this means nothing[,] alot of bills leave committee and never go anywhere else.

This is very true, so this is really nothing to get excited about.

@samuelp: My assumption is that law enforcement wouldn't, by and large, bring civil action without the permission of the IP holder (and I completely agree that the IP holder has the right to decide how his property is protected), but I find it troubling that this bill could allow it to happen at all. The potential for abuse is what really bothers me.

Takeyo wrote:

@samuelp: My assumption is that law enforcement wouldn't, by and large, bring civil action without the permission of the IP holder (and I completely agree that the IP holder has the right to decide how his property is protected), but I find it troubling that this bill could allow it to happen at all. The potential for abuse is what really bothers me.

Thankfully it's a self correcting situation.

If there is some abuse by the feds, then the MPAA lobby will just get a new amended bill passed.

Let's say for example that crazy homeland security people use this as some kind of excuse to start randomly raiding people's computers under the pretense of copyright infringement.

That'll look bad, very bad for the movie industry who will look like bullies and also like they are being used by the government. So as long as they are in control it shouldn't get too out of hand. This isn't warrentless wiretapping or anything.

Gilles Poitras wrote:

Many anime and manga companies, as well as most distributors of foreign films, don't have the financial resources to go after copyright violators.

News Flash: Nobody has the financial resources to do that! That includes the federal government. I guess we're just lucky that they happen to be in the business of doing things they will never be able to afford.

KarmaRocketX wrote:

For every anime licensing company employee that has to be layed off, and every company that had to downsize until they were put out of business, i'd love to see ten, stupid thoughtless kids get their equal comeuppance and see how it feels.

Don't worry, they'll get what's coming to them. Stupid kids grow up into stupid adults who make stupid decisions so they eventually end up either in jail or in poverty. It all adds up and stupidity is it's own natural consequence.

Navak wrote:

Also, it boggles my mind that people think even a significant fraction of those watching anime on youtube/veoh/whatever would be buying anime instead of just finding something else that is "free".

This is a good point. Worthless cheapskates never intend to pay for anything.

Dargonxtc wrote:

I thought it was pretty much established among the anime community that it would be impossible for the industry to enforce the law itself.

Never assume anything has been "pretty much established."

I see this as a start to trying to do something, if it goes all the way. If it does then we'll hopefully see some changes, but if it doesn't pass, then oh well. I'm sure though if it makes it to Bush he would sign it, unless he's out of the White House before that.

minakichan wrote:

Quote:

If the consumer base that is downloading isn't buying, then alienating them doesn't matter since they are not your customers in the first place.

And if a chunk of the consumer base is that is downloading ends up buying new anime based on what fansubs they liked, then alienating them loses sales. But I'm not going to argue that way because oh look! There is no concrete statistical evidence for either side.

You're assuming that the downloaders don't know what they are doing is illegal. I assume they know exactly what they are doing but continue to do so for their own personal reasons. So, getting caught means they have only themselves to blame and they should accept the consequences of their actions.

@samuelp: Katie Couric would distance herself so far from that cousin it would be amusing to watch. She wouldn't want that controversy damaging her career and paycheck. So the cousin would be toast. Laughing

I am still trying to figure out how animenewsnetwork became copyrightnewsnetwork, this could apply to anime, but until there is articles that says "(insert anime company) asks DOJ to help stop illigal distribution of their shows, this is just another copyright artical like every other 5-10 a day and has nothing directly to do with anime. This is a anime site, for anime news, and then there are sites out their that deal with copyright issues to read about this kind of thing, but until anime is involved it has no real place here, and if it does you might as well post articles every day on what( insert torrent site) is doing or happening to them, what people are trying to pass, who gets sued for whatever in whichever country even though it would have nothing to do with anime (intentional) whatsoever. I can guarantee you that the people involved in this have saving hollywood and big music lables on the mind when doing this, and if the DOJ ended up with their abilities to do this that is what they would have on their mind unless some anime company asked them to( which is when this would be "anime news).

What I'm wondering is when AnimeNewsNetwork become AnimeIndustryNewsNetwork, with a forum filled with pro-industry/anti-fan shills.

Fans owe NOTHING to the R1 companies. They have no reason to exist, no purpose to their existence, and if they survive at all it'll only by suing the very people they want as customers.

Last edited by Kireek on Fri Sep 12, 2008 2:15 pm; edited 3 times in total

nagashi wrote:

What I'm wondering is when AnimeNewsNetwork become AnimeIndustryNewsNetwork, with a forum filled with pro-industry/anti-fan shills.

Fans owe NOTHING to the R1 companies. They have no reason to exist, no purpose to their existence, and if they survive at all it'll only by suing the very people they want as customers.

I hope this is not another justification as to why you or others ilegally download. I mean sure, we have all done it but the way some people try and justify themselves is silly. I've downloaded before but I aint going to come out and call companies evil when I know for a fact what im doing is wrong.

I mean think about it dude, if you cant see why there going after people who steal there work then I dont know what to say.

Either that or your thinking is legal downloads for a fee and no R1 companys which is fair enough. I wouldnt like to see people in the R1 industery lose there jobs, but business is business.

cloud1989 wrote:

I am still trying to figure out how animenewsnetwork became copyrightnewsnetwork, this could apply to anime, but until there is articles that says "(insert anime company) asks DOJ to help stop illigal distribution of their shows, this is just another copyright artical like every other 5-10 a day and has nothing directly to do with anime.

Why are you attacking ANN? They are supposed to report on stuff and this article could very well be applying to anime. Like when they were reporting about Taro Aso possibly becoming the next PM of Japan, in a way it sure is related to anime, not directly but still related.

I sometimes think the whole thing has become horoffic at the highest level. I know there is a lot worse things going off in the world, but when its somthing I personally like then its sad to see all this.

ANN's Large Hadron Collider, ladies and gentlemen.

Dargonxtc wrote:

Well, and I hate to make this comparison, but it's like when the state prosecutes on the side of a rape victim. I am aware of the differences, but there are also striking similarities. Including the powerlessness of the plaintiff.

I am somewhat surprised that so many people are saying they even can defend themselves, when I thought it was pretty much established among the anime community that it would be impossible for the industry to enforce the law itself. This is of course due to the fact that it isn't just four or five people out there that are causing problems, but hundreds, maybe thousands(talking about actual fansubbers, not DL's).

I don't really like government intervention myself, but they are the only body capable of enforcing the law in this case. So it is either get rid of the law all together since the industry is helpless to enforce it, or actually defend the laws they make. Considering how low what these people are doing once you sit down and properly explain it, I don't think they will get rid of IP/copyright law anytime soon. So the only option is to try and enforce the law.

I almost find it repulsive that you compare this to rape victims. The US Senate is in Hollywood's pants in terms of not just money but also in terms of the influence of lobbying. Make no mistake the provision exists because of the tight relationship of key members of congress with Hollywood lobbyists. It's not because of any inherent rights copyright owners deserves, but this will save them tons of money in legal fees. Private lawyers are much more expensive than government ones.

Hollywood is more than capable of enforcing its own copyrights, and as said the Justice dept has other, more important things to do than to go after downloaders of fringe and unpopular stuff for puny amount of monetary damage. That happens to describe the far majority of non-Hollywood stuff (and some Hollywood stuff, too).

This is totally a self-serving provision that puts not only tax money and resources of the Justice Department to poor use but it opens the door for a lot of abuse. Especially the privacy ones.

Personally, if I was an American anime distributor I would probably balk at this too simply because I don't get any benefit from it, yet like the rest of Americans out there I stand to lose stuff. On top the fact that I'm sure plenty of their customers (the 18-34 male segment) are the primary target for Hollywood, yet they're not going to get a piece of the action.

Quote:

there are sites out their that deal with copyright issues to read about this kind of thing

Actually Ars Technica is a good start.

Forum - View topic
NEWS: U.S. Senate Committee Approves New Net Copyright Bill

Taste Naruto's Ichiraku Ramen in Real Life in Silverlake Ramen Campaign

Live-Action One Piece Series Wins at 2024 Writers Guild Awards

Gundam SEED FREEDOM's Rie Tanaka, Sōichiro Hoshi Share Memories at Los Angeles Premiere

Kurayukaba and Kuramerukagari Anime Movies Review

The Spring 2024 Anime Preview Guide

This Week in Games - Ask Yourself, "What Would Shadow Do?"

Forum - View topicNEWS: U.S. Senate Committee Approves New Net Copyright Bill

Forum

Forum - View topic
NEWS: U.S. Senate Committee Approves New Net Copyright Bill