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BlackRose321



Joined: 01 Apr 2004
Posts: 79
Location: In my head...

PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2004 10:25 pm Reply with quote

Witch Hunter Robin (TV)

Genres: drama, mystery, supernatural
Themes: police, superpowers

Plot Summary: Witches are individuals with special powers like ESP, telekinesis, mind control, etc. (not the typical hogwart and newt potions). Robin, a craft user, arrives from Italy to Japan to work for an organization named STN Japan Division (STN-J) as a replacement for one of STN-J's witch hunters who was recently killed. Unlike other divisions of STN, STN-J tries to capture the witches alive in order to learn why and how they became witches in the first place.
----------------------------------

Okay, I've been discussing this for a looong time now with someone and we keep looping so I thought I'd ask some others. The person I'm talking to thinks that Witch Hunter Robin has plot holes while I think that some if not all can be explained.

For example, the ones we're discussing are: Why did they wait a month to send the hunters after Robin? (I thought it had to do with 1. Amon 2. The orbo 3. Letting things settle back down. 4. Not knowing where she is 5.

The storyline, letting a month pass by makes sense plot wise. Yeah, I know a lot of speculations. LOL) Who ordered each hunt and why? (I thought the hunt on the apartment was 1. Partly a distraction so they could get the orbo 2. A hunt that was ordered by Juliano for Robin.

The hunt on the Robin in the warehouse was ordered by Zaizen, but why? The one on the STNJ was for the orbo. Correct me if I'm wrong. LOL) Also, why didn't they send the craft users right away? Why send the MIB first if she is so dangerous? Its also my belief that the Inquisitor himself played a part in the order of her hunt, not on purpose though. I thought maybe he was there to examine that other witch and check on Robin's progress. He thought she was doing well but Juliano feared she had become too strong and ordered the hunt. Tell me what you think, if I'm wrong or if you have your own ideas because I think I might not be too far off while that other person thinks they're all just plot holes.

[EDIT (7/3/14): Added the pic, encyc. entry, and all that fancy stuff, since this thread has gotten a recent revival, of sorts. -TK]
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Lone Wolf and Cub



Joined: 12 May 2004
Posts: 301
Location: tumbleweed, South Dakota

PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2004 12:14 am Reply with quote
I think a lot of what you say is speculation as you say. I do not have any problems with anything that happened in this series except for the ending. But even that was good, I don't really think there were plotholes. I loved the originality of the characters, and I loved Crispin Freeman as Amon in the dub. No complaints about anything, and this series is in my top ten Very Happy
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Haiseikoh 1973



Joined: 24 Apr 2004
Posts: 1590
Location: Waiting for the Japanese 1000 Gunieas.

PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2004 1:48 am Reply with quote
Correct me if i'm wrong:

spoiler[The main STN office probably had a issue with STNJ's practice of "Humane" Witch Hunts with the Orbo vs. outright killing witches. It could be implied that STN found out somehow about Orbo's true origins (or they began to suspect the Humane Hunts were not kosher), which was the use of witches that were "hunted" and use them in some sort of Alchemy Science, but they needed hard proof to confirm such suspicions. The whole Robin Witch Hunt was merely a distraction of sorts to gather info about the Orbo.]

Of course, how the Salem Witch and the PI fits in is beyond me.


Last edited by Haiseikoh 1973 on Thu May 27, 2004 5:11 am; edited 1 time in total
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ZahmiraV



Joined: 06 Nov 2003
Posts: 243
Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2004 10:15 pm Reply with quote
I have to agree with Haiseikoh. That sounds about right to me.

As to why they waited a month before sending in Robin? Maybe for preperation for her new job? Giving her all the information she'd be needing? And anyway, sending in a replacement right after someone has died is a little harsh.
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Haiseikoh 1973



Joined: 24 Apr 2004
Posts: 1590
Location: Waiting for the Japanese 1000 Gunieas.

PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2004 5:08 am Reply with quote
ZahmiraV wrote:
I have to agree with Haiseikoh. That sounds about right to me.

As to why they waited a month before sending in Robin? Maybe for preperation for her new job? Giving her all the information she'd be needing? And anyway, sending in a replacement right after someone has died is a little harsh.


Note i'm basing this on whatever info I can remember from the CN airings and Newtype USA.

spoiler[Amon supposedly killed the "slain" Hunter (or was it gave her the option of committing suicide?) because she was passing on info to someone. The rest of the team was told that she was killed by a witch when in reality, Amon killed her.

My guess is that the slain Hunter was a mole for the Director of STNJ/The Factory, and the death was to cover up the true identities of Dojima (aka "Miss Slacker Extrodinare") and Amon, who were working for STN, and the death also provided a good way to add Robin to the mix. Kinda like a distraction of sorts. (their's that word again, distraction). Why they waited a month is up to speculation, but I agree that it could've been a "debriefing" of STNJ. ]


spoiler[ STN Official: "Yeah, you have this hacker type dude, some woman that has psychic powers, some grunt, oh, and our operatives, the slacker, and the really scary dude dressed always in black. Oh, they have those two Metropolitain Police guys; total ---holes if you get my drift."

As to my previous comment, I realized that I didn't add a dumb reference to Orbo being the anime version of Solyent Green.

*ahem*

ORBO IS MADE FROM WITCHES!! WITCHES!!

*cough* My apologies to Charleton Hesston for that lame rip-off. ]


Last edited by Haiseikoh 1973 on Thu May 27, 2004 1:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Kazuki-san



Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 2251
Location: Houston, TX

PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2004 6:42 am Reply with quote
ZahmiraV wrote:

As to why they waited a month before sending in Robin? Maybe for preperation for her new job? Giving her all the information she'd be needing? And anyway, sending in a replacement right after someone has died is a little harsh.


I'm not certain, but I believe spoiler[the question actually refers to why they waited a month after the attack on the STNJ to finally send the hunters after her, not when she first arrived at the STNJ. Robin first arrived at STNJ 6 months after the hunt for Kate (whom she replaces).
]


BlackRose321 wrote:

Why did they wait a month to send the hunters after Robin?


spoiler[Being that they attacked the STNJ for the orbo, and not for Robin as the STNJ believed, it wasn't very important at the time to track down Robin. Also, even though she had awakened as a witch, she hadn't yet realized her true powers. Once Julianno started getting scared that would occur that's when he sent the craft users.]

BlackRose321 wrote:
Who ordered each hunt and why? (I thought the hunt on the apartment was 1. Partly a distraction so they could get the orbo 2. A hunt that was ordered by Juliano for Robin. The hunt on the Robin in the warehouse was ordered by Zaizen, but why? The one on the STNJ was for the orbo. Correct me if I'm wrong. LOL)


spoiler[


As for the attack at the warehouse, it was ordered by Zaizen, but ultimately from Solomon HQ, because Robin had been reclassified as a witch after she had awakened and killed the witch from the last hunt. The inquisitor no doubt reported that fact back to Solomon, which is why she was reclassified. The attack on the apartment was merely a continuation of the failed hunt at the warehouse.
]


BlackRose321 wrote:
Also, why didn't they send the craft users right away? Why send the MIB first if she is so dangerous?

spoiler[They didn't send craft users at first, because nobody at Solomon HQ except for Julianno and couple of others knew that she was a "super-witch". Also, the only other readily available craft users, would have been the STNJ. They most likely would have had problems with hunting Robin. If HQ had sent hunters, the STNJ could have helped Robin against them.]

As to what Haiseikoh 1973 wrote:
spoiler[Solomon HQ did want to check out what the issue with the Orbo was, which is why they sent Doujima in as a mole, Robin was at first sent in to find the secrets of the craft. The hunt for Kate occured because she had also awakened as a witch and become unable to completely control her powers. She knew that was going to be hunted fairly soon, so she leaked out secrets of the STNJ, most likely about the Orbo, which in turn is the reason that Doujima is sent in. Amon was ordered to hunt her and did so. ]

I have seen this series 3 times previously, and even rewatched some eps just to respond, so I feel pretty confident about it, but if anyone disagrees, feel free to bash me Wink
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Haiseikoh 1973



Joined: 24 Apr 2004
Posts: 1590
Location: Waiting for the Japanese 1000 Gunieas.

PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2004 2:06 pm Reply with quote
[quote="Kazuki-san"]
ZahmiraV wrote:

spoiler[Amon was ordered to hunt her and did so. ]

I have seen this series 3 times previously, and even rewatched some eps just to respond, so I feel pretty confident about it, but if anyone disagrees, feel free to bash me Wink


Actually:

spoiler[In Episode 15, when the attack on STNJ commences, Amon grabs Robin, and in the escape staircase, Amon reveals that Kate was afraid that her powers were manifesting out of control, so she opted to kill herself instead of having Amon kill her. Amon simply told everyone else that a witch killed Kate.]

Also, in that episode:

spoiler[When Amon is lying "dead" in front of Well which he had Robin escape thru, he utters that the hunt was a fraud, and it was for something else. Before that, we hear background voices where they mention a self-destruct Program, and the gathering of certain items. In Episode 16, Dojima recalls to Robin that those Tactical Men took an Orbo Gun and some info, but were unable to get into the system.]
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Kazuki-san



Joined: 21 May 2004
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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2004 4:09 pm Reply with quote
Haiseikoh 1973 wrote:


Actually:

spoiler[In Episode 15, when the attack on STNJ commences, Amon grabs Robin, and in the escape staircase, Amon reveals that Kate was afraid that her powers were manifesting out of control, so she opted to kill herself instead of having Amon kill her. Amon simply told everyone else that a witch killed Kate.]

Also, in that episode:

spoiler[When Amon is lying "dead" in front of Well which he had Robin escape thru, he utters that the hunt was a fraud, and it was for something else. Before that, we hear background voices where they mention a self-destruct Program, and the gathering of certain items. In Episode 16, Dojima recalls to Robin that those Tactical Men took an Orbo Gun and some info, but were unable to get into the system.]


spoiler[Alright, this was taken directly from the subs from WHR that I have. This is from when they were in the escape staircase

Robin: "Amon, are you the one who hunted my predecessor?"
Amon: "Yes. I hunted Kate. She was trying to steal STNJ's secret. Because of her own greed."]


spoiler[ He then goes on to say that she actually was doing it because she knew she could no longer control her craft, and that she knew she would be hunted soon, and that she chose death before that happens. He doesn't say anything about her committing suicide. He said that there wasn't trust between the 2 of them, so he did it.

Yes, Amon said the attack on the STNJ was a fraud, they had thought it was the hunt for Robin, but it was really the hunt for the Orbo. Doujima was the mole that was planted for orbo information, but they got impatient because she wasn't getting hard evidence. But they could still see that Zaisen was stepping up what he was doing, or something to that effect. ]
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Haiseikoh 1973



Joined: 24 Apr 2004
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Location: Waiting for the Japanese 1000 Gunieas.

PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2004 4:57 pm Reply with quote
Kate's death is subjective at this point. She died, and we know that she wasn't killed by a witch, so either she was killed by Amon, or she commited suicide. Remember spoiler[that Amon noted that Kate was pretty unstable mentally of her growing craft powers] so I would cater a guess that she might've taken her own life given her mental state. Because Amon spoiler[mentions later in Ep. 15 that he didn't want to hunt Robin and instead helped her escape] so that might be an indication that Amon didn't kill Kate, just maybe watched her die by her own hands.

That, or it's a plothole that has never been addressed.
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Kazuki-san



Joined: 21 May 2004
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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2004 5:10 pm Reply with quote
Haiseikoh 1973 wrote:
Because Amon spoiler[mentions later in Ep. 15 that he didn't want to hunt Robin and instead helped her escape] so that might be an indication that Amon didn't kill Kate, just maybe watched her die by her own hands.



Well what he said was that spoiler[There was no "comrade's trust" between him and kate, which allowed him to hunt her. The reason Amon doesn't hunt Robin is because, as he said "I don't think of you as a witch." Amon hates witches which is one of the reasons he could hunt Kate, but since he didn't think of Robin as one, he didn't have that hatred, to give him the ability to hunt her. Of course you are correct it's up to debate, but as far as what Amon tells us, he is the one who hunted Kate, not that she killed herself. In the end, who knows for sure? ]Smile
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BlackRose321



Joined: 01 Apr 2004
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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2004 7:59 pm Reply with quote
Thanks to everyone that replied, I got some new ways to look at it. Very Happy I don't know what I put the first time but I got someone else to answer on another site...what do you think about this? Ignore the things like "Well what about the rest of the hunters" because this was originally to someone else.

The hunt on Robin at the warehouse- This hunt was ordered by Zaizen. As you remember Zaizen doesn't trust HQ and vice versa. This hunt was to get rid of Robin because of the orbo. He wanted to get rid of her before she found out what it was.

Now I know, or think, that your response would be similar to "Well, what about the rest of the hunters?" In case it is I will answer it. LOL He didn't worry about the other hunters because they weren't searching for what the orbo was. Amon was just following orders not worrying about it. Doujima was undercover so she wasn't important and as you know Miho and Sakaki weren't interested in it either.

When they sent Robin he didn't trust her in the first place so that hunt would make sense. The next hunt, the one on her apartment- It was for Robin. It was ordered because the Inquisitor reported back to Juliano of her progress. Even if the Inquisitor was pleased that doesn't mean Juliano would be given the circumstances. They sent in the MIB because they made a mistake. They knew she was strong but even though they knew that they underestimated her which resulted in a failed capture.

The next hunt, the one in the STNJ- It was for the orbo and Robin's capture was a side note kind of. If they could get her, fine. That was even stated by Amon himself. This will probably result in you asking something like "Why did they leave such a dangerous witch behind and go for the green jello?" Answer- This story is about Robin finding out what she is and finding out what the orbo is. Robin's past not coming into it until after the attack on the STNJ, well, not coming into it as the main plot.

The hunts after that- They waited a month because they didn't know where she was. They knew she was in Japan, not where they could find her though. And again, they were focusing on orbo, it was like a race to the finish. Zaizen trying to get rid of the need for hunters and HQ trying to find out what orbo was in the first place. Robin wasn't focusing on the orbo, she was focusing on her past which leaves her capture unattended to. They sent them after her a month later because she helped Doujima which gave away her position. That gave them an opportunity to strike.
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Kazuki-san



Joined: 21 May 2004
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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2004 11:11 pm Reply with quote
spoiler[ The hunt on the warehouse, I believe was through HQ since they reclassified her as a witch. If you recall, after the warehouse incident, we see Amon disposing of the spent "anti-witch" shells, which ties him to the firing of them. The only problem with that is Zaisen doesn't tell him that Robin has been reclassified until AFTER the warehouse incident, so it's speculation as to whether he actually fired, or someone else did and he merely disposed of the shells. Robin was not trying to find out about orbo, she was their to find the secrets of the craft. Doujima was the one sent in to find out about orbo, but Zaizen didn't know that.]

spoiler[ As I said before I believe the attack on her apartment was a continuation of the warehouse attack, especially since the same "anti-witch" shells were used. If you put the facts together, then you will see that since Amon is the only one who could have used the AW shells, then it was him at the warehouse and him at the apartment, so it must be the same hunt. A hunt which would have been ordered by HQ because Robin had just been classified as a witch.]

spoiler[ The attack on STNJ was only for the orbo, not for Robin. When we see Amon after he has been wounded he says, "It wasn't a hunt?", because they weren't concerned with Robin getting away. They waited a month, because as I said by this time Julianno is getting a great deal more scared when it comes to Robin. Helping Doujima didn't give away her position because nobody would have informed HQ, unless it was Doujima herself (the mole), which makes no sense. They also would not have put anything in their reports to HQ about Robin helping. Even when they sent hunters in they didn't know where to find her, they had to lure her out or track her down.]
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BlackRose321



Joined: 01 Apr 2004
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PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2004 12:05 am Reply with quote
See, I haven't seen it for a long time and I only saw it once. The way it presented everything was different, it made you think, and it caught me off guard. LOL I forgot about the anti-witch bullets...they came from HQ right? Zaizen didn't have access to them...hey wait, the only one that could use them was dead right? Leaving Amon? Sooo, it had to of been him. I thought that Zaizen was behind the warehouse hunt because of the orbo, not that she was looking for it though. I thought that because he was paranoid over not trusting HQ so HQ sending Robin over suspiciously got him all tense. Laughing He suspected HQ was up to something but obviously was off...even though they were up to something. Wink But I had forgotten about when Zaizen told Amon of Robin's classification, I thought it happened before the warehouse hunt, which caused that specific hunt.

I also don't think that she had been classified as one by HQ yet, I think she was after the Inquisitor came back from the inquisition of that other witch. I don't think the attack on Robin in her apartment had to do with Zaizen because he didn't know what was going on as he said on the phone in his car...pretty sure he did anyways. He also didn't have access to those men that attacked, I'm pretty sure they were from HQ...the other men with the blue-ish outfits towards the end are FACTORY workers...right? LOL I also think it was ordered by HQ, Juliano specifically, not only because of that but also because of the letter.

The letter Juliano sent to Robin confessing everything. It wasn't Amon at the apartment remember? I however don't know how to explain why he was there, OR why Sakaki and Miho were there just in time. It couldn't have been Amon because there were more than one person there and that ended up getting Touko shot. Something he wouldn't have done. If he had tied her up she wouldn't have been that upset at the thought of not seeing him again. I also think that HQ can also classify craft users as witches, especially in Robin's case. I agree with you on the STNJ hunt, it was for the orbo.

I don't really think that Juliano was afraid of her, like terrified though. I think it had to do with his confusion over whether or not he should hunt her. Also, like I said before I think Robin's hunt, at that time, was less important than the orbo thing. When I said about her revealing her postion I meant that when she used her powers someone could have seen her. I mean, Amon did follow her, how easy would it be for someone else to?
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Kazuki-san



Joined: 21 May 2004
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PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2004 1:13 am Reply with quote
spoiler[It was easy for Amon to find her, because he sent her to Nagura, so it wouldn't be hard for him to follow her. HQ had no idea where she was except that she was in Japan. Yes there was more than one person in the attack on the apartment, but there were anti-witch shells used there also, and it was determined that Amon was the only one left who could use them. Yes, there were other people there, I don't think Amon shot Touko, it may have been one of the other attackers, but in any case I'm pretty sure Amon was there using the anti-witch bullets. After all, right after the attack they repel down the ropes, Robin runs down the stairs, and out of nowhere comes Amon running up the stairs, with a not so happy look on his face.]

spoiler[ Later, when he goes to the hospital to see Touko he says "I'm sorry" no doubt because he was involved in what happened to her. I just did some more checking by rewatching some eps, so Zaizen DID tell Amon about Robin being reclassified before the warehouse attack, you're right Smile also, I just watched the end of ep 14 again and I forgot that after Robin goes to stay at STNJ. Amon goes to the apartment, where he meets Zaizen, who beats the crap out of Amon, saying "Why did you disobey my orders? If you did what I told you Touko wouldn't have been..." So we know that Zaizen was involved in the hunt, but most likely because HQ ordered it, which also means Amon was involved]
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BlackRose321



Joined: 01 Apr 2004
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PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2004 1:32 am Reply with quote
No big, I forgot some too, like the anti-witch bullets thing because like I said, only saw it once so I'm going on memory. I never thought of it that way, the part about how Amon was there. What if he wasn't one of the ones shooting though, I do think he was involed though...now. LOL I don't think he was shooting because he appeared before her pretty quickly considering they had uniforms on (or whatever you want to call them...) that isn't possible. Maybe he provided the ammo. He he he... But that still doesn't make sense as to why Zaizen, or how for that matter, would order that. He didn't call HQ to get her, I still think HQ had to of done it...Zaizen doesn't have that much power So the warehouse attack was ordered by Zaizen but the apartment one was...hmm...that makes sense that Amon and Zaizen were involved but I think he didn't know what was going on...hey, could you check out when he made that phone call? He made one in his car sometime after the STNJ attack...or was it the apartment attack? LOL I can't remember but he made one where he said something about not knowing what was going on....
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