Forum - View topic

NEWS: 4Kids Announces One Piece

if you honestly think that having a shit company dubbing a good show is a good thing, then you're entitled to your (wrong) opinion.

If you think all fansubs are crapper than the worst dubs, you're entitled to your (wrong) opinion.

Lupus wrote:

if you honestly think that having a shit company dubbing a good show is a good thing, then you're entitled to your (wrong) opinion. If you think all fansubs are crapper than the worst dubs, you're entitled to your (wrong) opinion.

Hah, You really showed us, great way to prove your point!

Let me just summerize this for you. Kids show, done by a kids company, for a kids block, at a kid friendly time. Yet you don't understand why they'd edit them. You, my friend, are a lost cause. The more people there are like you the more I fear for the fandom.

Emerje

Economically, editing it is fine, however - if you actually want a good show, then it is not, and why should only the shows aimed at an older audience have a decent dub?

Lupus wrote:

Economically, editing it is fine, however - if you actually want a good show, then it is not, and why should only the shows aimed at an older audience have a decent dub?

And I'm sure 4Kids would LOVE to do less work and save more money, but these are the hard facts of showing stuff on TV. It's going to happen, it's always going to happen. If you think the dubs are crap, blame the FCC, the companies are just trying to comply. As for making their own shows, they do. For example 4Kids made the current Ninja Turtles series.

Emerje

I think it's safe to say that if they just show the episodes in the early evening they'd be able to have a decent, uncut dub and not piss off the FCC. I'm assuming that it works quite similarly to how the equivilent does over here, except they can't ban anything totally.

I wasn't aware that they made their own shows, but ... well, new episodes of existing series or remakes of old shows don't really count - and I can't be arsed to look to see if they actually have made any original shows, because I, to be frank, don't care enough. If I don't bother to look stuff up for most political, scientific or religious arguments/debates (depending on how civil it is) - I'm sure as hell not going to for a debate on an anime series, when I'm not sure exactly what point the other side is trying to make.

I am against 4Kids dubbing One Piece, because I believe that it will be crap, and even if they release DVDs, they won't reach Europe. You, seemingly, for some bizarre reason, want 4Kids to dub a good series to show it on Saturday mornings.

yeah, but toothpicks are much smaller than ciggarettes.

Quote:

I think it's safe to say that if they just show the episodes in the early evening they'd be able to have a decent, uncut dub and not piss off the FCC. I'm assuming that it works quite similarly to how the equivilent does over here, except they can't ban anything totally.

Please explain how showing them in the evening would allow them to do a "decent dub" and "not piss off the FCC". Adults want to watch their shows in the evenings, so Kids cartoons would get smashed. Obviosuly, it works different to where you come from.

Quote:

I wasn't aware that they made their own shows, but ... well, new episodes of existing series or remakes of old shows don't really count - and I can't be arsed to look to see if they actually have made any original shows, because I, to be frank, don't care enough. If I don't bother to look stuff up for most political, scientific or religious arguments/debates (depending on how civil it is) - I'm sure as hell not going to for a debate on an anime series, when I'm not sure exactly what point the other side is trying to make.

Remakes, extended episodes and what not DO count, because 4kids pony up the cash and what not for said series. They also invest time in writng talent, directors, etc. The point Emrje (I think) is trying to make is that you shouldn't be so quick to pull punches, and that nothing at all has been confirmed, so stop complaining.

Quote:

I am against 4Kids dubbing One Piece, because I believe that it will be crap, and even if they release DVDs, they won't reach Europe. You, seemingly, for some bizarre reason, want 4Kids to dub a good series to show it on Saturday mornings.

however, it has not been confirmed it will be crap, atleast not from the whole 30 seconds of dialouge on a promo video. Maybe they will reach europe, but maybe they wont. Import from the US. I don't mind it going on a Saturday morning slot because-

1. I've enjoyed Pokemon's and Ultimate Muscle's Dubs (because I think they're highly enjoyable), so I won't mind One Piece's dub more than likely.

2. If it prooves to be a success, then merchandise, toys, crap knows what else will be produced. I'd like that.

3. Kids and what not will be able to enjoy it at a timeslot where no one else will be able to interfere (it's mainly kids who do watch morning TV programming).

So anyway, yeah, drop it :/

Please explain how showing them in the evening would allow them to do a "decent dub" and "not piss off the FCC". Adults want to watch their shows in the evenings, so Kids cartoons would get smashed. Obviosuly, it works different to where you come from.

Putting a show in the early evening, or maybe late afternoon would allow more to be shown - unless there is no watershed there, or anything else. In addition, maybe they could, y'know, maybe aim it for an older kid's audience? Like the kind of people that watched One Piece in Japan - if it was a kid's show and succeeded in a Sunday evening over there, why should it not in America?

Remakes and extended episodes are by no means counted as seperate series in my book, sure, they have to pay for writers and directors, but they did not think up the series or anything else, to me it just seems like uncreative altering of a series that could have been used elsewhere.

It has not been confirmed to be crap, but I know how to follow a pattern - Pokemon, altered this show a fair bit, despite it being inoffensive anyway - Yu-Gi-Oh, removed an entire series, changed all referances to dying to "going to the shadow realm", unlike Pokemon, this one did have some mature content in it, such as once, someone being burned to death by vodka ignited in fire, but still, a little extreme: yes, it's had uncut DVDs, but if they don't do well... - Shaman King, well, I actually don't know what this one is like, I haven't seen it; supposedly it's passable, but not that great etc. etc.

And judging by the way that Sanji no longer smokes, I'd say One Piece is in for the same treatment.

And why would I want to import from the US? I haven't imported the Invader Zim DVDs from the US and I actually do want to buy those anyway.

Besides, if the Yu-Gi-Oh and Shaman King's DVDs do badly One Piece WILL NOT GET ONE. You have never replied to this point, you're chewing off my ear because I assume the dub will be crap, but you're assuming there will be uncut DVDs, when there is by no means a guarantee that there will be.

1) Each to their own, however, most people who have watched One Piece subbed, did not enjoy Pokemon's dub (I personally did at the time, but I was 8 at the time) nor Ultimate Muscle's dub (blegh, the fact that a channel that used to show Cowboy Bebop and Spawn is now showing this and Dragonball Z, almost exclusively, makes me sick) - myself included. Let's just drop this point, this argument is an opinionfest as it is.

2) That would be nice, yes - but still, I would rather have an accurate dub (I don't care about things like "hurry" being changed to "come on", however I do care about things like, fight scenes being removed, or the blood digitally cut out) that isn't cut. It would be nice if they made a Hawk Eyes Mihawk doll.

3) One Piece was designed for 12-16 year olds, a very different market to the 6-11 year old market that Fox Box and 4Kids targets. 12-16 year olds do not watch Saturday morning cartoons so much, and I see quite a lot of One Piece as being quite unalterable for 6-11 year olds. Granted, I see the earlier episodes as being good for a younger audience, but the Don Krieg, Arlong, Whiskey Peak and Alabasta arcs really are not so appropriate for kids. Even the Kuro arc might not be in some scenes, by sheer coincidence, these are the best arcs.

I'm tempted to drop this argument, because this is pointless, because I know that I will not convince you, and there is not a snowball's chance in hell that you'll even approach convincing me, and I actually have a reasonably open mind about this - I'm just following a pattern to see what is likely, and judging my opinions of what is crap on the opinions I see most expressed on the web.

I personally didn't mind Pokemon's dub although I found Ultimate Muscle to be the worst show I've ever seen (he was fighting a giant mobile phone, that called a number ... then ... OMG A CLIFFHANGAR1!!!1111 - I mean, there's nothing bad about cliffhangers, as long as that singular fight is over two episodes later - but they need to be done stylishly...) - however, most people do.

As for Yu-Gi-Oh, decent voices, butchered show. Totally.

Lupus wrote:

Putting a show in the early evening, or maybe late afternoon would allow more to be shown - unless there is no watershed there, or anything else. In addition, maybe they could, y'know, maybe aim it for an older kid's audience? Like the kind of people that watched One Piece in Japan - if it was a kid's show and succeeded in a Sunday evening over there, why should it not in America?

Doesn't work that way, not in this situation. 4kids IS the Fox Box, it's their block. Aside from doing Pokemon and Yugioh for Kids WB, all of their shows go directly to Fox Box, they really don't have any other options, I'm pretty sure part of their contract is that all of their new properties go to Fox first (or atleast that's how I remember it from the press release). And who says they aren't going to be aiming it at older kids? You're just assuming they wont, but admit you haven't seen most of their shows so how can you really say that? They could even show it at 11:30 (the last block of the morning) to make the most out of it as young kids are usually out of the house by then and older kids tend to be hanging around the TV more.

Quote:

Remakes and extended episodes are by no means counted as seperate series in my book, sure, they have to pay for writers and directors, but they did not think up the series or anything else, to me it just seems like uncreative altering of a series that could have been used elsewhere.

You're trying so hard to squirm out of this and it's not working. It doesn't matter if they were already existing stories, they still were the ones that made them. What are you going to say next, that anime isn't original because most of it is based on existing manga? It's the same thing, a studio pics up a story and they animate it. Also I know the guy that used to be incharge of 4Kids marketing of Ninja Turtles (Joshua Izzo), he was everywhere getting bad word on what fans wanted out of the show and anyone who knows the story will tell you that they delivered. So call it what you want it's still THEIR show.

Quote:

It has not been confirmed to be crap, but I know how to follow a pattern - Pokemon, altered this show a fair bit, despite it being inoffensive anyway - Yu-Gi-Oh, removed an entire series, changed all referances to dying to "going to the shadow realm", unlike Pokemon, this one did have some mature content in it, such as once, someone being burned to death by vodka ignited in fire, but still, a little extreme: yes, it's had uncut DVDs, but if they don't do well... - Shaman King, well, I actually don't know what this one is like, I haven't seen it; supposedly it's passable, but not that great etc. etc.

Now your'e just not listening. 4kids didn't remove the first seasons, they didn't BUY the first season. It isn't theirs to cut out because they don't own it. The first season is right there for anyone to pick up if they want it. They can't cut out something they don't' have the rights to in the first place. Don't know any way of making that any clearer to you.

Quote:

And judging by the way that Sanji no longer smokes, I'd say One Piece is in for the same treatment.

The only thing you can blame that on is America itself and nothing else. Smoking is banned from most public places, there're millions spent on anti-smoking ad campaigns every year, Cigarettes are banned from TV advertising, and you really think they're going to leave it in a kids show over here? And it's not just 4Kids doing it, all cartoons broadcast at kid friendly times edit out smoking. That's not an indicator of the level of editing that One Piece will recieve in any way.

Quote:

And why would I want to import from the US? I haven't imported the Invader Zim DVDs from the US and I actually do want to buy those anyway.

Then what do you care what 4kids is doing if you're interested in watching their shows uncut in the first place?

Quote:

Besides, if the Yu-Gi-Oh and Shaman King's DVDs do badly One Piece WILL NOT GET ONE. You have never replied to this point, you're chewing off my ear because I assume the dub will be crap, but you're assuming there will be uncut DVDs, when there is by no means a guarantee that there will be.

And on the flip side there are no guarantees that their failure will impact any other releases, you're just assuming it will. You can go ahead and prove me wrong by showing me the press release from FUNi or 4Kids where they said if those DVDs sell well they'll do others. Doesn't exist. All we have to go by is a con report from one website which could be interpreted in any number of ways without actually hearing it from the rep themself.

Quote:

1) Each to their own, however, most people who have watched One Piece subbed, did not enjoy Pokemon's dub (I personally did at the time, but I was 8 at the time) nor Ultimate Muscle's dub (blegh, the fact that a channel that used to show Cowboy Bebop and Spawn is now showing this and Dragonball Z, almost exclusively, makes me sick) - myself included. Let's just drop this point, this argument is an opinionfest as it is.

Most people who like One Piece don't like Pokemon PERIOD! Hell, most people over the age of 12 don't like Pokemon, what are you trying to prove here? (You were 8 when Pokemon first came out, that makes you, about 15 now then... no wonder you're like talking to a brick wall...) Not to mention that the networks over here don't show the same things as the networks over there so you're point is totally lost on me.

Quote:

2) That would be nice, yes - but still, I would rather have an accurate dub (I don't care about things like "hurry" being changed to "come on", however I do care about things like, fight scenes being removed, or the blood digitally cut out) that isn't cut. It would be nice if they made a Hawk Eyes Mihawk doll.

And again you have no way of telling how the dub will turn out, you're just assuming it'll be bad without anything to base it on than Pokemon and Yugioh, neither of which are shown on Fox Box over here.

Quote:

3) One Piece was designed for 12-16 year olds, a very different market to the 6-11 year old market that Fox Box and 4Kids targets. 12-16 year olds do not watch Saturday morning cartoons so much, and I see quite a lot of One Piece as being quite unalterable for 6-11 year olds. Granted, I see the earlier episodes as being good for a younger audience, but the Don Krieg, Arlong, Whiskey Peak and Alabasta arcs really are not so appropriate for kids. Even the Kuro arc might not be in some scenes, by sheer coincidence, these are the best arcs.

I'll hummor you for a minute, let's say that the series is solely intended for a young teen demographic, nothing more and nothing less. You also say that people of that age don't watch Saturday morning cartoons. So the question is, what's the problem? If they're not going to watch it and are already watching the fansubs why are they making sucha big deal out of this?

Quote:

I'm tempted to drop this argument, because this is pointless, because I know that I will not convince you, and there is not a snowball's chance in hell that you'll even approach convincing me, and I actually have a reasonably open mind about this - I'm just following a pattern to see what is likely, and judging my opinions of what is crap on the opinions I see most expressed on the web.

You're so-called patern doesn't exist, not at the extreme you're making it out to be. A) You're only capable of coming up with two examples out of 20+ shows 4Kids does. B)Neither of your examples are shown on the same network as One Piece will be. C) 4Kids has proven in the past that they can get away with more things on Fox Box than they have in the past, exmaples include heavy toilet hummor in Ultimate Muscle, non-candy coating of death and murder in Shaman King, and lots of violence in Ninja Turtles. Not really sure how you think you're argument holds any water.

Quote:

I personally didn't mind Pokemon's dub although I found Ultimate Muscle to be the worst show I've ever seen (he was fighting a giant mobile phone, that called a number ... then ... OMG A CLIFFHANGAR1!!!1111 - I mean, there's nothing bad about cliffhangers, as long as that singular fight is over two episodes later - but they need to be done stylishly...) - however, most people do.

All that tells me is that you don't like the show, that doesn't say anything about how 4Kids did with it.

Quote:

As for Yu-Gi-Oh, decent voices, butchered show. Totally.

Which wasn't shown on Fox Box.

Emerje

Their new properties go to Fox first, that's not to say that they have to be restricted to a certain timeframe. And I'm sure that they're not aiming it at older kids because of their track record.

They're picking it directly off a series based on the same medium, by your logic, a doujin is just as original as a manga.

You want to cut something out of a series, that happens to include the first series of a show, do you buy that first series? Think it through.

No, it is a level of editing, smoking is being looked down on more and more in society, but is that any reason to edit something out of a show? Unless the FCC doesn't allow anyone smoking before a certain time on TV, they damn well can show Sanji smoking - and if they edited that out because he's just smoking (I personally feel it's a disgusting habit too, but still...), what the hell are they going to do when someone gets slashed across the chest several times and then their wound later bursts open?

... what the sam hill are you going on about here? I simply state that I don't want to pay an extra ten pounds for something which will probably not make it to my country (I'm pretty sure that a different company dubbed DBZ over here, I'm not sure if FUNi exists nyar) and if I import I will not be able to play on my TV? I, to date, have only imported one thing, ever - and I don't intend to do it again, because it ended up almost doubling the cost.

How many people have seen a Pokemon sub? So how would they know if they'd like the sub? My understanding of it is that the original is a half-decent show.

And, seriously, you are also like talking to a brick wall - I actually admit it when I am wrong on some things, you do not.

Also, I'm not exactly going to put much effort into putting together the best argument in the world about how crap a dubbing company is, am I?

I do have more of a life than that. And that wasn't a point, it was a rant not related to the topic at hand. Kindly ignore that like you have ignored some things that actually are points.

And how does it matter if they're not shown on Fox Box? They are both done by the same company that's going to do One Piece, they're also aimed for the same target that Fox Box is going for.

I'm basing it off those, because those are the only two which I have seen more than a little of, and know exactly what has been cut - I HAVE seen other 4Kids dubs, they seem to be similarly cut, but as I don't really care enough to go and check to actually see if they are done similarly...

and again, WHY does it matter what channel they're shown on, Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh are on WB Kids, correct? Everything else is on an equivilent channel on a different network, correct? Why does it matter which one it is on then?

I know perfectly well that a responsible parent would not let a 7 year old watch One Piece - have you even seen the show?

Anyway, let's assume that every young teen is not going to watch it dubbed before seeing it subbed and draw a bad conclusion from that and has a fast enough internet connection and a large enough hard drive to download 100 fansubbed episodes - maybe some people, GASP, like to have a good dub?

a) Those two examples are the two which I have detailed knowledge on what exactly was cut, I also have not seen every 4Kids show, but if I were, I think it's safe to say that every one of them would be pretty similar with regards to the quality of the dubbing - I'm tempted to actually go and look all of these up so you'd shut up about the "you only have 2 examples!" thing.

b) So? It's not like we're comparing two vastly different channels here, they're two equivilent channels owned by two different companies.

c) AH, finally, a decent point. This was becoming about as inane as, say, discussing shipping ... well, Shaman King was slightly cut, as is my knowledge - I'll have to look this up - but I'm assuming that Ninja Turtles violence was bloodless, One Piece's is not always. They're still editing quite a lot, as shown by the recent Hollywood Mew Mew thing ... to even consider changing the location of a show doesn't really make me assume there'll be a reasonably uncut dub of One Piece.

And I'm assuming that if sales are bad that they will not release DVDs because of simple economics.

Bad sales of a product means that it's unlikely that similar or followthrough products will be released. It almost, but not quite, rules out the chance of similar products being released in the near future. I'm not assuming that these DVDs are going to sell badly, I'm just making the (not too outrageous) assumption that if they sell badly, that no more will be on the way, unless 4Kids puts a list of exactly what they cut at the end of each episode ¬_¬, which I somewhat doubt.

Lupus wrote:

Their new properties go to Fox first, that's not to say that they have to be restricted to a certain timeframe. And I'm sure that they're not aiming it at older kids because of their track record.

Fox would never allow it, they have a horrible track record when it comes to prime time animation, they've only ever had 3 successes in the last 14 or so years, those only being stricly comedy. Not to mention Fox wouldn't allow them to show a show of that demographic in prime time, can't say I blame the, they aren't Cartoon Network afterall.

Quote:

They're picking it directly off a series based on the same medium, by your logic, a doujin is just as original as a manga.

Who said anythign about originality? I'm saying the series was made by 4Kids, I can't believe you're actually trying to dispute that fact. And how is comparing an unofficial doujinshi to an official cartoon supposed to prove anything?

Quote:

You want to cut something out of a series, that happens to include the first series of a show, do you buy that first series? Think it through.

It's not up to them to decide if it needs to be cut or not, but not buying it they left it open for anyone else to pick up. Would you prefer they bought it and never showed it rather than leave it in Japan where it's open for another company to pick up?

Quote:

No, it is a level of editing, smoking is being looked down on more and more in society, but is that any reason to edit something out of a show? Unless the FCC doesn't allow anyone smoking before a certain time on TV, they damn well can show Sanji smoking - and if they edited that out because he's just smoking (I personally feel it's a disgusting habit too, but still...), what the hell are they going to do when someone gets slashed across the chest several times and then their wound later bursts open?

You've made it very clear that you have 0 understanding of how edits work.

Quote:

... what the sam hill are you going on about here? I simply state that I don't want to pay an extra ten pounds for something which will probably not make it to my country (I'm pretty sure that a different company dubbed DBZ over here, I'm not sure if FUNi exists nyar) and if I import I will not be able to play on my TV? I, to date, have only imported one thing, ever - and I don't intend to do it again, because it ended up almost doubling the cost.

Sorry, left out a word. I mean what do you care if you're NOT interested in the first place. Why are you so worked up over whether or not they're doing an uncut release if you don't plan on watching it anyway?

Quote:

How many people have seen a Pokemon sub? So how would they know if they'd like the sub? My understanding of it is that the original is a half-decent show.

It's a little kids show, there aren't enough people out there who care if it's a halfway decent show.

Quote:

And, seriously, you are also like talking to a brick wall - I actually admit it when I am wrong on some things, you do not.

Believe me, if I was saying anything wrong there would be plenty of people jumping on me about it. You have noticed that no one is backing you up right?

Quote:

Also, I'm not exactly going to put much effort into putting together the best argument in the world about how crap a dubbing company is, am I?

You haven't yet...

Quote:

I do have more of a life than that. And that wasn't a point, it was a rant not related to the topic at hand. Kindly ignore that like you have ignored some things that actually are points.

If they were worth commenting on I would.

Quote:

And how does it matter if they're not shown on Fox Box? They are both done by the same company that's going to do One Piece, they're also aimed for the same target that Fox Box is going for.

Because different networks let different things slip. If the FCC catches something they don't like they aren't going to go after 4Kids, they're going to go after the network for broadcasting it. There's a good chance that Fox is letting things slip that WB wouldn't. Also didn't you yourself comment that Yugioh has been getting better?

Quote:

I'm basing it off those, because those are the only two which I have seen more than a little of, and know exactly what has been cut - I HAVE seen other 4Kids dubs, they seem to be similarly cut, but as I don't really care enough to go and check to actually see if they are done similarly...

Every time you say "I don't care" and "I can't be bothered" and "I'm not going to" the less credability you're giving to your argument. Thanks.

Quote:

and again, WHY does it matter what channel they're shown on, Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh are on WB Kids, correct? Everything else is on an equivilent channel on a different network, correct? Why does it matter which one it is on then?

Just explained that.

Quote:

I know perfectly well that a responsible parent would not let a 7 year old watch One Piece - have you even seen the show?

You'd be surprised what parents let their kids watch nowadays.

Quote:

Anyway, let's assume that every young teen is not going to watch it dubbed before seeing it subbed and draw a bad conclusion from that and has a fast enough internet connection and a large enough hard drive to download 100 fansubbed episodes - maybe some people, GASP, like to have a good dub?

And they'll get it when the uncut DVD comes out.

Quote:

a) Those two examples are the two which I have detailed knowledge on what exactly was cut, I also have not seen every 4Kids show, but if I were, I think it's safe to say that every one of them would be pretty similar with regards to the quality of the dubbing - I'm tempted to actually go and look all of these up so you'd shut up about the "you only have 2 examples!" thing.

Let me know when you do, you're not getting very far with you're limited understanding.

Quote:

b) So? It's not like we're comparing two vastly different channels here, they're two equivilent channels owned by two different companies.

OK, how about I add in that Pokemon and Yugioh were 4Kids' first attempts at shounen titles and that a lot can change over time. We are talking nearlly 7 years since Pokemon debuted right?

Quote:

c) AH, finally, a decent point. This was becoming about as inane as, say, discussing shipping ... well, Shaman King was slightly cut, as is my knowledge - I'll have to look this up - but I'm assuming that Ninja Turtles violence was bloodless, One Piece's is not always. They're still editing quite a lot, as shown by the recent Hollywood Mew Mew thing ... to even consider changing the location of a show doesn't really make me assume there'll be a reasonably uncut dub of One Piece.

Blood is minor, it's another thing you're just not going to see in children shows like this. Again, this is an industry wide issue that they take up every time an anime comes to television. The only shows to really get away with it are those on Adult Swim as that's not a kids friendly time slot. And even then it hadn't always been that way for them.

And the Hollywood Mew Mew name change didn't take place. Yet another example of 4Kids actually paying more attention to it's fans than people are willing to believe.

Quote:

And I'm assuming that if sales are bad that they will not release DVDs because of simple economics. Bad sales of a product means that it's unlikely that similar or followthrough products will be released. It almost, but not quite, rules out the chance of similar products being released in the near future. I'm not assuming that these DVDs are going to sell badly, I'm just making the (not too outrageous) assumption that if they sell badly, that no more will be on the way, unless 4Kids puts a list of exactly what they cut at the end of each episode ¬_¬, which I somewhat doubt.

I don't disagree with the notion, I simply want to make sure people realise they're only assuming this and that it isn't something that was actually said by either company involved. We can argue either way all we want on that, but the truth is no one knows what they're planning.

Emerje