Forum - View topicRIGHT TURN ONLY!! - TP Attack
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lianncoop
Past ANN Contributor
 Posts: 1705 Location: Indiana |
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I really don't see the oversaturation of "crap" titles. I would argue that Tokyopop has more good than bad out right now.
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
 Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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What's amusing to me is that you all confuse your personal opinion of something with the public's perception of it. "Tokyopop releases only crap!". It's crap to YOU, folks, there are still loads of people out there buying these titles. Battle Vixens sells really well. In fact, MOST of Tokyopop's titles sell pretty damn well. Look at the bestselling manga titles. Of those 50 titles, 24 of the top 25 are manga and 45 or so of the 50 are manga. It amazes me how you can think that just because you don't like something, that means it isn't selling and that you somehow know how to 'fix Tokyopop's problem', which is to say they don't seem to have one aside from finding a place to put all that cash money they're raking in.
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pikapii
Posts: 1 |
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The statement about Tokyopop's "saturation of crap titles" may not be the most factual statement... But if someone wants to slam a company for releasing titles that they see as uncultivated, I doubt sales data will calm the objection.
Last edited by pikapii on Sun Jun 13, 2004 2:23 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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littlegreenwolf
 Posts: 4796 Location: Seattle, WA |
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I really like lianncoop's manga reviews, and don't really see where you get that she only reads the back of a cover. Sometimes a manga can cover a lot of ground in a volume, sometimes it can stretch out one little incident. She gives you a nice idea of what's going on in the manga, and then tells you why or why not you should get it. Isn't that the mission of the column? I think she's doing a fantastic job, even more for someone who's just started.
p.s. Yay to covering a wide selection to titles, and not just sticking to a couple. With the manga market growing bigger every month with titles I've never heard of before, it's a big help. |
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RabbitRevolution
 Posts: 218 |
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Sure Tokyopop releases a lot of bad stuff, but for every awful title there's a decent or even excellent title in their catalogue. With the large number of manga that TP produces it's bound to be a mixed bag, and frankly I don't mind it that way. After all, I don't actually have to buy the crap, I'll just get the good stuff. To all the people who are getting PO'd: this is what this column is actually for! You read lianncoop's complaints and decide whether you want to risk buying a so-so title or not (and if you didn't enjoy it, you were warned, so it's your own damn fault
 )
I'm also sad that so many people aren't giving TP enough credit for what they've actually done for the manga industry. They standardized the cheap, small book format (curse you Viz, for all those $16 manga I had to buy!  ) and were the first company to start regularly publishing their manga unflopped (Viz and others had only published a select few titles unflopped). While I think there were many factors that contributed to the current boom in American-published manga, the features pioneered by Tokyopop were certainly one of them.
Well, sorry to rant, but I just feel a lot of loyalty toward TP. I purchased my first manga from them, and even today most of my titles are from TP. They're a company that went from publishing mostly shoujo stuff (under the Mixx label) to churning out titles like Battle Vixens (regardless of my feelings about this manga  ) - they've really come a long way. So despite their mistakes, show some appreciation, you guys!
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Vekou
 Posts: 329 |
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I don't recall ever speaking for anybody else. I never do. Everything I post is my opinion alone and nothing more. And as for "fixing their problem," it doesn't matter to me at all how much money they're making or how successful they are. There are things that I'd like changed, regardless. Are you suggesting that just because they're making money, I shouldn't be objecting to or having qualms with their products? |
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Kagemusha
 Posts: 2783 Location: Boston |
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im not saying that Tokyopop releases crap. its true that i dont like most of their titles, but i recoginze that many people do. im attacking Tokyopop's marketing strategy. in the early 1990, the comic book industry, under the recent wave of success, tried to take advantage of the reader and get them to buy everything they put out (variant covers for instance). big mistake. while TP isn't doing exacly the same thing, they still are under the assumption that their mangas are always going to sell well no matter what, so they get greedy and put out tons and tons of new titles.
personally, i think Viz has the best strategy in the buisness. they seperate their mangas into several categories and have fairly high profile titles in each of these. these lines cover almost every person whos into manga, be it shojo fans, action fans or mature fans (by that i mean complex, thought provoking stories, not hentai) when they want to start a new Sonen Jump graphic novel, they give it heavy coverage in Shonen Jump, which reaches a signifigant portion of all manga readers. because of this, almost every shonen jump graphic novel has been a huge hit. |
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jfrog
 Posts: 925 Location: Seattle |
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I didn't say it wasn't selling, and I didn't say they didn't have good comics (Lupin III and Planetes come to mind). And it's not just Battle Vixens: Love Hina, Chobits, etc are some of the worst comics I've ever read, and those sold very well. Just because something is popular doesn't make it good. Everyone loved hair metal for God knows what reason back in the 80's, but then they all woke up and realized how bad it was. Hopefully that'll happen soon with the fanservicey crap that's clogging up bookstore shelves. And I agree with Kagemusha's comparison to the early 90's comic industry in America. There was a huge boom spearheaded by terrible, terrible artists like Rob Liefeld and then everything collapsed a couple years later. That isn't saying there weren't good comics in the early 90's (Sin City is classic), but most of it was bad. Especially the popular ones. Kinda like the American manga industry now. Last edited by jfrog on Sun Jun 13, 2004 8:39 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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lianncoop
Past ANN Contributor
Posts: 1705 Location: Indiana |
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I don't understand... How is going off the fact that their product is selling well, therefore causing them to put out lots of titles...being greedy? No one assumes that their product is going to sell well forever, so why sell yourself short if business if booming? Regarding the fanservic-y titles. Those who don't like fanservice are in the minority, I'm afraid. If the demand for your product is there, you're gonna jump at it. That's not greed, that's just economics. As for Viz...they may have a good strategy with separating their titles into categories, but they are incredibly slow at getting those titles out. |
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Kagemusha
Posts: 2783 Location: Boston |
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to answer lianncoop's question, they are expanding too rapidly. eventually the expansion will slow down and stop, and Tokyopop isn't preparing for this. if the rate of titles they release continues to rise like it has been, they number of hit titles will probobly decline. they will lose alot of money if this occurs.they will have so many titles out that they will have to rely on the small profits of each of these titles. this is not a very good strategy, and one that cant last. if they put out too much matterial and the number of hits doesn't rise, the bubble of prosperity that TP has created could burst. thats not even getting into the fact that bookstores won't want to expand their manga sections and will stick only to hit titles.
of course this may not happen. im really hoping that it wont happen, as im sure everyone is. but it has happened to other industries. even if this "bust" does occur, manga will still be available in the US, but not as much. of course, with Japanese culture taking hold of america, its always possible that manga could become an accepted part of our culture (imagine, manga on kids summer reading lists) |
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The Ramblin' Wreck
 Posts: 924 Location: Teaching Robot Women How To Love |
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Love Hina and Chobits, two of my favorite series.
I'm sure that both series made Tokyopop a small fortune. Your personal taste doesn't necessarily match what the prevailing demand will be. Nowadays, there is a rapid rise in the amount of shojo that is being licensed. Demands change, the manga that is brought over will shift as well. |
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littlegreenwolf
Posts: 4796 Location: Seattle, WA |
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Not to mention VIZ's quality in the presentation of certian titles and the translations of other's are questionable at times. I really don't see how VIZ is superior to Tokyopop. I liked Viz a lot at first, but a lot of the recently released stuff has put them on a lower level for me when compared to Tokyopop. Tokyopop has a giant selection of titles, yes, but I think some of your are over reacting when you say they're oversaturating the market. I'm buying pretty much two thirds of their shoujo manga because they're personal faves, and NOT crap. They have lots of major shoujo titles which pretty much all have a giant fan basis to support the releases. Their shonen manga is the problem because most of it just isn't worth looking at. If you want to complain about someone oversaturating the market go complain about ADV manga and their buying manga licensing in giant groups at a time, manga they haven't really looked at. |
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The Ramblin' Wreck
Posts: 924 Location: Teaching Robot Women How To Love |
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And another thing that always makes me wonder, do people take Tokyopop, Viz and ADV Magna for fools.
These people are in the publishing business, some for 10 years or more. Do people really don't think that have some sort of business plan? What happened to the Comics industry in the early 90's is pretty much common knowledge, or at least thats what some people on this board try to project. I can't seem to picture their board meetings going something like: "Well, Bob, I guess it's time to destroy our livelyhood, and probably get ourselves fired..." |
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lianncoop
Past ANN Contributor
Posts: 1705 Location: Indiana |
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....I really just don't understand how this thread deteriorated into a "TP is teh evil of the manga industry" topic.
Tokyopop is doing what they should. They are meeting the demand with the quantity it desires. I'm sure all of the manga industries have marketing people who have a firm grasp of economics. They know how the market works, they are striking while the iron is hot...there is no fault in that. |
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Kagemusha
Posts: 2783 Location: Boston |
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hey i didn't think up of the idea, it was Toren Smith, a man who was key in mangas introduction to america. for those of you who dont know, Toren Smith was the founder and head of Studio Proteus, who translated many titles that helped manga gain a foothold in the US, such as Oh! My Goddess, Blade of the Immortal, and Ghost in the Shell. he knows how the buisness works, and is simply pointing out that booms are usually followed by busts. the only way that manga to keep expanding like it has been is for it to be accepted into our culture. i think alot of people who have read this forum think that the attacks on TP are because of the majority of its works are shojo. i dont read shojo (well not most of the time
 ) but im glad that its being published and bringing in a new demographic. in fact, if anything will help manga to continue growing and remain successful, its gonna be shojo
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