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ANNCast Holiday Special The Third: Part Deux


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qollocust



Joined: 31 Jul 2003
Posts: 182
Location: Philadelphia
PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 5:05 pm Reply with quote
A note about your Dazed & Confused conversation - Jason London is in Dazed & Confused, his twin brother Jeremy London is in Mallrats. Different people, same acting style that you dislike haha.
I love that movie though despite its flaws. It is one of the few movies my Dad and I can agree on, according to him it perfectly represents his high school days.
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JacobC
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 5:47 pm Reply with quote
SoandSo wrote:

One final point: I completely disagree with the notion of cutting Darcia to put more focus on Jagura, Zac. Kinda always felt the opposite. I mean, they reference her from the very beginning and she causes a lot of bad shit to go down, but I dunno, she's just too distant, too removed from the story for her role to have any weight. She's sorta like a far weaker Johan; you have this vaguely mythic-feeling villian whose mentioned regularly in fearful whispers but only in passing, her shadow casts a threatening pall over the world and plot, clearly has significant influence and power, but for the most part it's all just faceless thugs in armor smacking people down. She herself doesn't really do much even indirectly and when we finally see her, her motivation is revealed too quickly and is honestly too pithy to paint her as a legitimate threat or interesting figure(and the whole 1984 thing she has going is just a tad cliche.)

Whereas from the get go, you have this other villian whom you see immediately, spend far more time watching and delving into his backstory, is way creepier and oddly charismatic, does far more horrible, nasty shit directly to the protagonists, wolf and human, and lest we forget, basically caused the entire apocalypse. Jagura(accidentally) set it into motion, but Darcia shoved the jalopy down a cliff smilin like a boss, and she probably could've been cut out entirely if a few details were reworked.


Yeah, I didn't mention it but as somebody who ate up that show like some people eat up Evangelion and Utena (okay, I ate up Utena too...but never mind EVA, seen it three times, soon to be a fourth, and it's still more interesting as a creator study than a functional story with anything at all to say,) anyway! Jaguara is the villain they should have cut, not Darcia. You *could* combine them into one villain, I guess, but they're so different that it would be better to just nix Jaguara. The reason she's there is the TV ending and needing a climax for it. Darcia, however, is absolutely necessary for the ending to happen the way it does, and carry a lot of the core themes of the show, so yeah, despite Jaguara being a more active threat, while Darcia is completely passive before he goes insane...she's actually the less important villain.
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Charred Knight



Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 3085
PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 6:45 pm Reply with quote
If you remove a major character such as Jaguara or Darcia, you obviously change the story. If Jaguara didn't exist than Darcia would be a different character, if Darcia didn't exist than Jagura would be a completely different character.

The Sars epedemic might have changed the timing of Jaguara's defeat, but I am sure that the character of Jaguara would still exist.

If I think an anime could be improved by massive changes in story than that generally means I didn't like the path it took. To use Fullmetal Alchemist as an example spoiler[I wish they took out the idea about Amestris taking place on an alternate Earth, as it really just added a bunch of plot holes.] This would get rid of a movie I didn't like, radically change the theme (which I thought was cynical), and make it so that the tv ending spends all of it's time wrapping up the Dante plot. I see these as all improvements.

How would removing Darcia improve Jaguara, and how would removing Jaguara improve Darcia? I don't see an improvement in either case. The Jaguara and Darcia storyline was certainly interesting, it doesn't need to be removed.


Last edited by Charred Knight on Thu Dec 29, 2011 6:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
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JacobC
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 6:49 pm Reply with quote
Charred Knight wrote:
If you remove a major character such as Jaguara or Darcia, you obviously change the story. If Jaguara didn't exist than Darcia would be a different character, if Darcia didn't exist than Jagura would be a completely different character.

The Sars epedemic might have changed the timing of Jaguara's defeat, but I am sure that the character of Jaguara would still exist.


Well, *yeah* but I'm just saying if you *have* to get rid of a villain, it would be Jaguara rather than Darcia. I think the story works just fine with both of them playing the roles they play, anyhow, as I like the story beginning to end. I never really found it boring or "being fillery," hell, I even like the giant walrus episode. So maybe I am not the one to ask. ^^;

EDIT: While I'm at it, I think the walrus episode does have a point: it's great character development for Toboe in an entertaining way. I would link to the fight on youtube, there are MANY copies (so it must be memorable...?) but I'm pretty sure that's against forum regulations. Look it up yourself, it's not spoilery, but it is fun to watch, out of context of the series even. It's totally worth four minutes of screentime! Anime hyper
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Charred Knight



Joined: 29 Sep 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 6:59 pm Reply with quote
JesuOtaku wrote:

Well, *yeah* but I'm just saying if you *have* to get rid of a villain, it would be Jaguara rather than Darcia. I think the story works just fine with both of them playing the roles they play, anyhow, as I like the story beginning to end. I never really found it boring or "being fillery," hell, I even like the giant walrus episode. So maybe I am not the one to ask. Anime hyper


Thanks for clearing that up, way too many times it appears that the relationship between anime and anime fan resembles Stockholm syndrome. I remember one guy saying that a new anime was his favorite, and a perfect 10 than stating that he hated half the characters.
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reanimator





PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 7:19 pm Reply with quote
As everyone knows, Keiko Nobumoto is a great writer. Too bad that most fans don't know about her achievement in anime. It seems like she is not writing screenplay actively, both live and animated, so I do miss her talent. I wonder if she got burned out....

Regular fans are just being content with getting entertained which is perfectly normal. I could be wrong, but I think North American fans in general don't have high regard whatsoever to anime creators like European fans, notably French.

Right now, the hottest anime screenwriter is Mari Okada. So let's hope that she continues write great original stories that make anime great.
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JacobC
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 7:28 pm Reply with quote
reanimator wrote:

Right now, the hottest anime screenwriter is Mari Okada. So let's hope that she continues write great original stories that make anime great.


Wasn't sure who this was but she's been mentioned two or three times now, so I looked her up...I've...seen...*many* of her works, adaptive and original, and if she's the hottest thing right now, mark me a sad panda. Schmaltz and melodrama and total mediocrity with a few bright spots that aren't really due to her great writing, but other factors. Mmmmmmmeh. Confused She overwrites, is the problem. Even when she has good ideas, she runs them into the ground and has her characters REALLY MAKE SURE that you know exactly what they're thinking and why they're thinking it and--bleh. Sophomoric stuff. I'll take the aforementioned Yoji Enokido, Ikuhara, Konaka, and definitely Nobumoto over her.
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penguintruth



Joined: 08 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 7:39 pm Reply with quote
I'm more of a Dai Sato person, myself. Minoru Onoya and Kazunori Ito, too.
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SoandSo



Joined: 13 Feb 2010
Posts: 204
PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 8:27 pm Reply with quote
JesuOtaku wrote:
I'll take the aforementioned Yoji Enokido, Ikuhara, Konaka, and definitely Nobumoto over her.


Hey, JO, off topic but as long as I've got your ear, what did you think of Star Driver after all was said and done? Assuming you saw the conclusion?

And on that note, when can we expect the review of the first Blu-Ray, ANN? Cause if it hasn't been scheduled for anyone(and isn't due to legal reasons), I'll gladly throw my hat in for a volunteer review.
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JacobC
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 8:53 pm Reply with quote
SoandSo wrote:
JesuOtaku wrote:
I'll take the aforementioned Yoji Enokido, Ikuhara, Konaka, and definitely Nobumoto over her.


Hey, JO, off topic but as long as I've got your ear, what did you think of Star Driver after all was said and done? Assuming you saw the conclusion?


Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeah, I eventually wrote down my thoughts on it at one point, lemme find 'em...sorry for any typos:

"Star Driver really dropped the ball on its big toe hard, sadly. I'm still glad I watched it, it still had some marvelous moments of insight and visual genius, but...it didn't deliver on what it kept foreshadowing and promising, and I can't help but wonder if the tsunami had something to do with it. If it did, well that is too bad, but priorities, it was just a TV show.

So yeah, I enjoyed it, I would probably watch it again (with an English dub for giggles, I guess,) but its attempts at deconstructing the super-robot genre, right down to some [expletive] fantastic Utena parallels, ultimately collapsed due probably to internal production issues and a poorly-written "indomitable main character." I get what they were going for, but they went way too far and made him a Gary Stu leaving the rest of the characters very little to play off of. At least it was consistently good-looking and entertaining. I was never ever bored.

I mostly feel bad that I recommended it so highly after just 3 episodes, ASSUMING it would deliver on these terrifically subversive seeds it was planting, and being pretty darn mortified about...3/4 through? When I realized they'd written themselves into a corner and we were in for a disappointment on the depth end of things. Which just goes to show I should ONLY review completed series and movies and whatnot, because my judgment on portions of shows only has been consistently pretty gawky. Anime hyper"

[/offtopic]
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dewlwieldthedarpachief



Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 751
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 9:01 pm Reply with quote
In one sense, your show is a convenient way to 'keep up' with anime whatnot despite a growing apathy on my part. But what I think keeps me listening every week is the commentary you add to the material. If this is what I can expect for the next couple (final?) years, then I think we're lucky to have you. Just promise me you guys don't disappear into an anime plot hole when you're done?
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Zump



Joined: 30 Oct 2010
Posts: 131
PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 9:06 pm Reply with quote
penguintruth wrote:
I'm more of a Dai Sato person, myself. Minoru Onoya and Kazunori Ito, too.


Now that you mentioned him, I need to ask: whatever happened to Kazunori Ito? I know he wrote those excellent Gamera movies from the late 90s, and the last thing I remember him working on was the .hack franchise. Is he still active in the industry?
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SoandSo



Joined: 13 Feb 2010
Posts: 204
PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 9:10 pm Reply with quote
JesuOtaku wrote:
SoandSo wrote:
JesuOtaku wrote:
I'll take the aforementioned Yoji Enokido, Ikuhara, Konaka, and definitely Nobumoto over her.


Hey, JO, off topic but as long as I've got your ear, what did you think of Star Driver after all was said and done? Assuming you saw the conclusion?


Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeah, I eventually wrote down my thoughts on it at one point, lemme find 'em...sorry for any typos:

"Star Driver really dropped the ball on its big toe hard, sadly. I'm still glad I watched it, it still had some marvelous moments of insight and visual genius, but...it didn't deliver on what it kept foreshadowing and promising, and I can't help but wonder if the tsunami had something to do with it. If it did, well that is too bad, but priorities, it was just a TV show.

So yeah, I enjoyed it, I would probably watch it again (with an English dub for giggles, I guess,) but its attempts at deconstructing the super-robot genre, right down to some [expletive] fantastic Utena parallels, ultimately collapsed due probably to internal production issues and a poorly-written "indomitable main character." I get what they were going for, but they went way too far and made him a Gary Stu leaving the rest of the characters very little to play off of. At least it was consistently good-looking and entertaining. I was never ever bored.

I mostly feel bad that I recommended it so highly after just 3 episodes, ASSUMING it would deliver on these terrifically subversive seeds it was planting, and being pretty darn mortified about...3/4 through? When I realized they'd written themselves into a corner and we were in for a disappointment on the depth end of things. Which just goes to show I should ONLY review completed series and movies and whatnot, because my judgment on portions of shows only has been consistently pretty gawky. Anime hyper"

[/offtopic]


Yep, that sounds about right. Still a fascinating show and I enjoyed most of it for what it was.

Just a word of warning; I ordered the dvd, and it's a sub-only affair, I'm afraid. And a bare-bones one, at that.
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CG-LOVER



Joined: 22 Mar 2010
Posts: 355
Location: East Lansing, MI
PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 9:19 pm Reply with quote
I literally just started watching Wolf's Rain myself. I bought it this month after I had heard it was going out of print. I knew it was a classic so I just couldn't pass up getting it while it was still available. I've only seen one episode, but from what I heard in the podcast (didn't listen to the whole segment, cause I didn't want to hear spoilers, though one of two might have accidentally been heard, or read, considering what was written in the forums) I expect that I'm in for a real treat. And I think that I will still watch those recap episodes when I get to them anyway, because I'm kind of just a completionist and that's how I roll.
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penguintruth



Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 8461
Location: Penguinopolis
PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 9:20 pm Reply with quote
Zump wrote:
penguintruth wrote:
I'm more of a Dai Sato person, myself. Minoru Onoya and Kazunori Ito, too.


Now that you mentioned him, I need to ask: whatever happened to Kazunori Ito? I know he wrote those excellent Gamera movies from the late 90s, and the last thing I remember him working on was the .hack franchise. Is he still active in the industry?


He just wrote the screenplay for the .hack// movie. He did most of the .hack// franchise. But I never liked that franchise. I mostly like Ito because of the first two Patlabor movies.
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