Forum - View topicNEWS: Anime Freaks
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Tempest
 I Run this place.ANN Publisher  Posts: 10420 Location: Do not message me for support. |
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A few more examples of English words with roots in other languages, but different meanings:
The examples I'm going to give are are French -> English (post-conquest) because 1) I speak both languages fluently so its easy for me to make an educated comparison, and 2) There is a huge amount of French influence on English vocabulary, so there's lots of examples (apparently there are close to 1500 French words in the average English dictionary (common words)). Entrée, in English we use this to refer to the main course of a meal, but in French the word refers to an appetizer (Entrée comes from "to enter"). The word "sport" comes from the French term "des sports" which referred to jousting tournaments. Ironically, "des sports" is no longer used in French. "Rif Raf" comes from a French term "rifle et rafle", another term no longer used in the French language. "Rifle et rafle" meant to plunder dead bodies after a battle. The same term, "rafle" form the verb "rafler" has also been absorbed into English in several other forms. "Rafler" literally means "to graze or snatch" and was used at some point to refer to a game of dice because winners would "snatch up" their winnings. Well, it made its way into English and is now used to refer to games of random chance, raffles. "Rifle" comes from ther verb "rifler," which means to "quickly search through," this word has also been imported into English, but it has kepts it original French meaning. Anyways, that being said, I could spend hours researching and writing up examples, but lets get back to Japan and Otaku. "Otaku" you say is a derogatory term? Well, this was true for a certain period, and is sometimes true right now, but it wasn't always true. Otaku literally means "house" and it was also a rather archaic and polite way of saying "you." A bit like "thou" in English ("thou shalt not..."). It wasn't until the "Otaku Murderer" that the term took on a negative connotation. However, in the large scale of things, this may have only been a temporary change in Japanese society's use of the word. Of late, it is becoming more and more common to hear the term "Otaku" in Japan being used in a completely non-derogatory way. When I interviewed Mitsuhisa Ishikawa in 2000, he referred to anime fans (in Japanese) as Otaku. He then went back to state that he meant "Otaku" in a completely non-derogatory way, and that he wasn't referring to obsessive fans with bad hygiene or anything, just fans. Given his studies in linguistics, I'm sure Cookie could add much more... -t Last edited by Tempest on Wed Jul 14, 2004 12:40 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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the_soultaker
 Posts: 685 |
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OUCH!!  well, all i can say is my definition of Otaku would be of non-derogatory sentiment.  But i guess when it boils down, it's a matter of personal preference and one's own take on the definition. some may find it an insult and there are those who deem it complimentary.
The Japanese definition has no bearing on me since i do have a social life outside of Anime, and i deem such a medium as another recreational hobby I.E.Martial arts, Videogames & Movies. The one term i and many of you are familiar with is "Fanboy" (diehard fans of certain mediums that are so quick to insult,bemoan or belittle an individual because s/he may make inappropiate or "unfounded" remarks like "Dragon ball Z SUKS Becuz the stories an fight scenes are too repetitive" or Batman could kick spiderman's ass becuz he has his utility belt."  I'm a little OT here but i made for an funny segue nontheless.
Thanks for the insight/explanation. 
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ANN_Bamboo
ANN Contributor
 Posts: 3904 Location: CO |
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As we can gather even from Tempest's post, there's a lot of interpretations for the word "otaku." So... I guess it really does just depend on the person using the word. Although your segue brings up a good point, lol. I've always considered the word "otaku" to be a more extreme version of fanboy, but like we've already said, I guess that can be up for interpretation. I'd rather be a "Freak" than a "fangirl" though. |
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Andromeda
Posts: 119 Location: Florida |
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I refer to myself as an "otaku"... but then again, I very nearly fit the description of the word's somewhat derogatory meaning, too. ^^;;
OK, so the only time I leave the house ISN'T to go to anime cons... but I do spend a good chunk of my money on DVDs, manga, posters, games and figurines. I won't buy a DVD of an anime unless it's got a subtitled track - but then again, if the dub is good enough, I'll still watch it dubbed. Of course, I'm also trying to produce my own anime (Japanese usage of the word, here; it'll be mostly in English and I'm an American... though the animation and storytelling will indeed have the "anime feel"). ^^ You know, I still associate "anime" with Japanese animation (though if something looks and feels like J-anime, and has a good story and good acting, I might be inclined to call it anime anyway)... but I've adjusted my definition of manga to encompass any "comic book" that still has the vision, quality or spirit of many Japanese titles. Tokyopop already uses the term like this - their "Rising Stars of Manga" competition is open only to people in the US! If it's a good "comic book" I'll call it a manga, if it sucks, I'll call it a comic book ("comic book" is much more derogatory in my experience - I've even met DC or Marvel enthusiasts who prefer to call them "sequential arts"). Now there's an interesting linguistic bit for you: comic book. I guess they were all originally humorous or something, since otherwise, it wouldn't make sense, right? I've never even heard of the "Otaku Murderer" bit O_O. Interesting though... know of anywhere I can read up on that (in English)? "Freak" is a very... um, variable word. If you say it the wrong way, it's definately an insult, even if you're saying they're an "anime freak" or something. On it's own, it IS derogatory, though, far moreso than Geek or Nerd, which have connotations of intelligence - freak means literally "not normal" on it's own. I would rather be a "fangirl" than a "freak", let's put it that way. Even fanboy adn fangirl have some negative connoations, though - most people I know would associate the words with screaming groupies ^_^. Of course, if you ARE a screaming groupie and don't care, then I guess it's fine. :P I don't consider the "O-Word" to be derogatory in English, mostly because I've seen so many people use it to mean "anime fan". But I do feel like you have to have more thana passing interest in it to call yourself "Otaku". If you have read less than 4 manga titles, own or have rented less than 5 DVDs or VHS of J-anime, have never even heard of "Evangelion", "Utena" or "Ghost In The Shell", don't know any words in Japanese other than "hentai" and "baka" (ie; you don't even know "mecha"), don't know the difference between CLAMP and a surgical tool, have no clue what "yaoi" or "yuri" are, and positively refuse to watch to watch subtitles... you're probably not an "otaku". In my opinion (again, an opinion), you have to really love Japanese animation and manga, and maybe not be an expert, but know quite a bit about it (ie; you've made an effort to watch or read the manga and anime that are ever-so-talked-about, you know the various connotations of "Yaoi" and "Yuri", you know the names of some of the more prominent manga-ka and anime directors or actors in Japan, etc.), then you can start calling yourself "otaku". That reminds me - yaoi and yuri. I recall reading in Animerica and elsewhere that Yaoi, Yuri, Shounen-ai and Shoujo-ai all have variable meanings even in the original Japanese. This true? Because I know they certainly do in English... though granted, if you search for "shoujo-ai" you're more liekly to get lovey-dovey stuff, and if you search for "yuri" you're more likely to get porn. Ever notice that? -Andromeda --@~> |
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the_soultaker
Posts: 685 |
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Good point Andromeda.
One thing i just have to mention because it was so funny albiet cynical, was on a recent airing of X-play,where both Adam and Morgan attended a few conventions (Comic/Anime) those who were interviewed were dressed up as their favorite characters.needless to say there were inside jokes remarks a plenty in regards to the cosplayers.  but the clincher went to the ending of the show.A skit where at an "X-Con" this Fanboy walks up to Adam in a semi confrontational manner "You said that Son Gouku only has 3 spikes of hair when he becomes a super saiyan, but it's really 6"! Sessler then sinks his head out of anguish and disdain for the Fanboy. 
I knew exactly where he was coming from,as i have witnessed simular fanatical behaviors from previous conventions. It's a bit too much, don'tcha think?
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ANN_Bamboo
ANN Contributor
Posts: 3904 Location: CO |
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Yes. That's because generally, "shoujo-ai" and "shounen-ai" mean girl-love, and boy-love, respectively. For example, if you see a Gundam Wing doujinshi where Heero has a crush on Duo and they maybe kiss or something, it's shounen-ai. It's just romance between two people of the same gender. Yaoi is gay porn, and yuri is lesbian porn. That's pretty much it in a nutshell. Although some people do use those words to mean generally, guy x guy or girl x girl. Like if you buy yaoi doujinshi, it could range from shounen-ai to hardcore yaoi. |
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Emerje
 Posts: 7338 Location: Maine |
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You can probaby thank Otaku no Video for that one. The word was used both positivly and negativly depending on how you were watching it. The animated segments glorified the word, while the LA segments were quite a bit more negative (the obsesive video otaku, the cell theif, etc.). Emerje |
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littlegreenwolf
 Posts: 4796 Location: Seattle, WA |
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Otaku No Video is actually rather new when you compare it to how long anime fans have been using the word. I don't remember when I first heard the word, but I think it might of been a couple years back in that chapter of Ah! My Goddess where they stay with the otaku for a while. |
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Andromeda
Posts: 119 Location: Florida |
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Yeah, I noticed all that... it's just that I see "Yuri" used so often to describe stuff that's really just shoujo-ai. ^^ And Shoujo-ai.com has some fanfiction that's more Yuri that Shoujo-ai, too. Your definition fits exactly to mine; Yuri is lesbian porn, Shoujo-ai is just girl/girl romance, that's the way it's always been with me... but it's odd how many people use them interchangeably, especially with "yuri" (ie; a lot of stuff gets labeled Yuri when it's really just Shoujo-ai... and a lot of Shoujo-ai and Yuri are labeled - mis-labeled maybe? - as Yaoi, but I guess that could just be the way it's evolving in American English?)... I guess I was mainly just wondering if it was the same way in Japan, because I could swear I read that it was sometimes... Must go dig that Animerica Shoujo Spectacular issue up (I'm 99% sure it was in that issue)... when I'm home, at least. -Andromeda --@~> |
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Emerje
Posts: 7338 Location: Maine |
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Err, AMG manga is from, what, 1992 (I'm guessing, I can't find a source)? And the OAV is from 1993 while OnV is from 1981/82 and I know people have been importing and doing fan translations longer than that. So, yes, I'm going to stick with saying that OnV was what popularized the phrase unless someone can come up with a more relevent suggestion. Emerje |
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Godaistudios
Posts: 2075 Location: Albuquerque, NM (the land of entrapment) |
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Hmm.. although I can't find the specifics for the term breaking down to the concept of yaoi, there is apparently a literal definition for that too. Yaoi = no plot. |
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