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NEWS: 4Kids' Yu-Gi-Oh! License Is Still in Force, Court Rules


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kaiser11492



Joined: 19 Feb 2011
Posts: 159
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 2:20 am Reply with quote
agila61 wrote:
luisedgarf wrote:
... More than the U.S. judges will almost always decides towards an American company when Japanese (and East Asian) companies are dealed. ...
Using this case to argue that US courts discriminate against East Asian companies does more to undermine than support the claim. It makes it sound like a face saving excuse for their own lawyers.


If the reason why 4kids won was because of racial bias, then I am going to be supremely mad.
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kaiser11492



Joined: 19 Feb 2011
Posts: 159
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 2:33 am Reply with quote
This victory for 4kids is overall a pyrrhic one. Think about it. They are bankrupt and the value of their assets have been constantly decreasing. They probably even lost some faith among their creditors. Now they have to pay all the lawyers and processing fees for defending them in the court case. How are they going to afford that?
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TitanXL



Joined: 08 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 2:47 am Reply with quote
Top Gun wrote:
I watched enough of the original series when it originally aired on Kids' WB and


In other words: no, you haven't watch it. You watched some weird 4Kids' travesty that shares the same name.

Also the fact you used the Abridged series as some kind of arguing point to support your side is extremely questionable since most of the jokes on it (before it went down the crapper of pop-culture and self-referencing) stemmed from how ham-fistedly hilarious the dub is with it's editing and changes. I have to question if you even realize what you're saying when you're quoting something that is on the opposite side of your claim.

Mad_Scientist wrote:
From what I understand, the Digimon anime franchise has generally been pretty lucky in its US TV airings, in terms of censoring and voice acting quality. This is especially surprising for Digimon Tamers considering how dark it gets, and how disturbing some of the imagery gets.


Digimon's dub may not have been as bad as Yu-Gi-Oh, but it was still terrible. The fact they gave Impmon/Beelzebumon an Al Capone-imitation voice pretty much prevents any scene with him in it from being taken seriously or have any successful drama (which is unfortunate, since he's a fairly tragic character), not to mention his main weapon is a gun, which got edited out a lot. To say nothing of the IceDevimon who spoke like Christopher Walken, the Jureimon who sounded like The Godfather, and other stupid 'celebrity sound-alikes' would be for the best (though admittedly probably better than the Mike Tyson sound-alike they gave one character in Yu-Gi-Oh. I honestly have no clue why these dubs are so obsessed with stupid celebrity sound-alikes) Otherwise, yeah, they edited death, sake, sex, and other things as usual. Also those terrible one-liners which always killed the mood. Biggest travesty was the music, though. YGO and Digimon have some of the best anime soundtracks out there.
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Shenl742



Joined: 11 Feb 2010
Posts: 1505
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 3:27 am Reply with quote
TitanXL wrote:
Top Gun wrote:
I watched enough of the original series when it originally aired on Kids' WB and


In other words: no, you haven't watch it. You watched some weird 4Kids' travesty that shares the same name.

Also the fact you used the Abridged series as some kind of arguing point to support your side is extremely questionable since most of the jokes on it (before it went down the crapper of pop-culture and self-referencing) stemmed from how ham-fistedly hilarious the dub is with it's editing and changes. I have to question if you even realize what you're saying when you're quoting something that is on the opposite side of your claim.


This is totally a wrong and unfair assumption to make.


Last edited by Shenl742 on Mon Jan 02, 2012 11:56 am; edited 1 time in total
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Mad_Scientist
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 3:49 am Reply with quote
Now you're just being needlessly ridiculous. Believe it or not, not all shows fall into one of two categories: kiddie crap that has nothing interesting and thus can be chopped up and butchered with no loss to anyone because it's already just kiddie crap, and the greatest masterpiece ever that is so awesome it is too much for mortal minds to comprehend. Some things fall in between those two levels of quality. Actually... nearly everything is between those two levels of quality.
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Shenl742



Joined: 11 Feb 2010
Posts: 1505
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 11:26 am Reply with quote
Mad_Scientist wrote:
Now you're just being needlessly ridiculous. Believe it or not, not all shows fall into one of two categories: kiddie crap that has nothing interesting and thus can be chopped up and butchered with no loss to anyone because it's already just kiddie crap, and the greatest masterpiece ever that is so awesome it is too much for mortal minds to comprehend. Some things fall in between those two levels of quality. Actually... nearly everything is between those two levels of quality.


Well I apologize, TitanXL's comment that basically said, "Oh you didn't see the REAL Yugioh so you have no right to cast judgment on it, because the original is totally, 100% differant!" (it's not really, I'll give you 25% and be generous) pissed me off to no end.
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kaiser11492



Joined: 19 Feb 2011
Posts: 159
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 1:06 pm Reply with quote
TitanXL wrote:
Top Gun wrote:
I watched enough of the original series when it originally aired on Kids' WB and


In other words: no, you haven't watch it. You watched some weird 4Kids' travesty that shares the same name.

Also the fact you used the Abridged series as some kind of arguing point to support your side is extremely questionable since most of the jokes on it (before it went down the crapper of pop-culture and self-referencing) stemmed from how ham-fistedly hilarious the dub is with it's editing and changes. I have to question if you even realize what you're saying when you're quoting something that is on the opposite side of your claim.

Mad_Scientist wrote:
From what I understand, the Digimon anime franchise has generally been pretty lucky in its US TV airings, in terms of censoring and voice acting quality. This is especially surprising for Digimon Tamers considering how dark it gets, and how disturbing some of the imagery gets.


Digimon's dub may not have been as bad as Yu-Gi-Oh, but it was still terrible. The fact they gave Impmon/Beelzebumon an Al Capone-imitation voice pretty much prevents any scene with him in it from being taken seriously or have any successful drama (which is unfortunate, since he's a fairly tragic character), not to mention his main weapon is a gun, which got edited out a lot. To say nothing of the IceDevimon who spoke like Christopher Walken, the Jureimon who sounded like The Godfather, and other stupid 'celebrity sound-alikes' would be for the best (though admittedly probably better than the Mike Tyson sound-alike they gave one character in Yu-Gi-Oh. I honestly have no clue why these dubs are so obsessed with stupid celebrity sound-alikes) Otherwise, yeah, they edited death, sake, sex, and other things as usual. Also those terrible one-liners which always killed the mood. Biggest travesty was the music, though. YGO and Digimon have some of the best anime soundtracks out there.


The Digimon dub wasn't as good as the Fullmetal Alchemist and Code Geass dubs, but it was a lot better than the Yugioh dub. Digimon actually acknowledged death and allowed text (which was translated) to be shown. Digimon also in my opinion had a wider cast of voice actors. Heck, i remember in Digimon Season 2 a monster called Deputymon (Revolmon in Japanese) who basically was a living, talking revolver with arms and legs. They showed him on broadcast tv in the morning! Such a thing would never exist in 4kids' world.
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TitanXL



Joined: 08 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 3:07 pm Reply with quote
Shenl742 wrote:
Well I apologize, TitanXL's comment that basically said, "Oh you didn't see the REAL Yugioh so you have no right to cast judgment on it, because the original is totally, 100% differant!" (it's not really, I'll give you 25% and be generous) pissed me off to no end.


What would you say to someone who only watched 4Kids One Piece and said the show sucked? If you've only seen the dub then you haven't seen the show, simple as that. (At least Luffy's crew got to keep their dreams and stuff, the YGO cast were all gutted of their dreams and everyone's personality was rewritten) The fact 4Kids doesn't even finish their Yu-Gi-Oh series and cuts off the last 30+ episodes alone should give you a warning sign not to trust their handling of it. GX and 5Ds both ended on cliffhangers because 4Kids was in a hurry to skip to the next series, so the confrontation with the final boss was ignored and dropped.

kaiser11492 wrote:
The Digimon dub wasn't as good as the Fullmetal Alchemist and Code Geass dubs, but it was a lot better than the Yugioh dub. Digimon actually acknowledged death and allowed text (which was translated) to be shown. Digimon also in my opinion had a wider cast of voice actors. Heck, i remember in Digimon Season 2 a monster called Deputymon (Revolmon in Japanese) who basically was a living, talking revolver with arms and legs. They showed him on broadcast tv in the morning! Such a thing would never exist in 4kids' world.


I can recall tons of times they censored out death (Gotsumon and Pumpmon being "condemned to the dungeon"), Japanese ("It's written in Digicode!" and guns (Beelzebumon + Pinocchimon's entire arc was cut down to 5 minutes since the entire episode was him chasing Takeru with a revolver and tormenting him by shooting Digimon in the face to kill them and trying to do the same to Takeru) Revolmon actually got censored quite a bit and they didn't allow him to shoot anyone like in the original.
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Shenl742



Joined: 11 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 3:30 pm Reply with quote
TitanXL wrote:
Shenl742 wrote:
Well I apologize, TitanXL's comment that basically said, "Oh you didn't see the REAL Yugioh so you have no right to cast judgment on it, because the original is totally, 100% differant!" (it's not really, I'll give you 25% and be generous) pissed me off to no end.


What would you say to someone who only watched 4Kids One Piece and said the show sucked? If you've only seen the dub then you haven't seen the show, simple as that. (At least Luffy's crew got to keep their dreams and stuff, the YGO cast were all gutted of their dreams and everyone's personality was rewritten) The fact 4Kids doesn't even finish their Yu-Gi-Oh series and cuts off the last 30+ episodes alone should give you a warning sign not to trust their handling of it. GX and 5Ds both ended on cliffhangers because 4Kids was in a hurry to skip to the next series, so the confrontation with the final boss was ignored and dropped.



I'd still say it's absolute bull****

You'd have to be an absolute and total imbecile if you can't understand the general story or premise behind those shows just because of some edits and bad dialogue. Especially Yugioh
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Primus



Joined: 01 Mar 2006
Posts: 2507
Location: Toronto
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 6:12 pm Reply with quote
GATSU wrote:
Dude, the only thing 4Kids has done for anime was make Pokemon and YuGiOh into hits. And it's doubtful that it had anything to do with them. They just landed the next collectable craze fad, and the target audience ate it up.


Every show they license has aired on a (somewhat) mainstream television channel. The fact that they got even heavily westernized Japanese animation on TV makes it so that some kid can get into anime for the very first time. Their Saturday morning TV block even advertises itself as the place "where epic anime lives".

GATSU wrote:
Yeah, but what about, say, Ultimate Muscle and Tokyo Mew Mew uncut on DVD?


The licenses to those shows have expired, and while 4Kids could potentially relicense them for streaming and broadcast they don't have a good history with DVD releases, uncut or otherwise.

GATSU wrote:
Not sure where DBKai got cancelled, 'cus it was a hit in both countries. And moe gets multiple seasons, 'cus it fits empty late-night slots. And as for all anime being produced to sell crap, then explain Mindgame. Rolling Eyes


Kai failed in Japan. The show was supposedly a manga-true adaptation using Z's footage, yet it ended 2/3rds of the way into the story. This was despite being one of the highest rated anime series on television in Japan. The reason the show didn't continue onwards is because the related merchandise (which was just rebranded Z stuff kids in Japan already owned) didn't sell. If the merch didn't sell, the ratings didn't matter.

It isn't false that the large majority of anime is produced to sell something. Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood was only made so Square Enix could boost manga sales. Heck, Hayao Miyazaki was denied funding for Nausicaa because there was no associated manga, or products for the film to advertise. So Miyazaki went on to create a Nausicaa manga series.

For something like Mindgame, obviously that is a different case of a vanity project on the behalf of Studio 4C, which they hoped would recoup costs via theatrical release and DVD sales.

Haterater wrote:
Its not really nostalgia if some kids never had the experience, which is possible as time goes by. What you're also saying is that low income kids shouldn't be bothered to be entertained. We have basic TV for all, there should be at least something for the young demographic to watch. If 4Kids go, the only option is PBS and hope they keep their cartoons going along with the funding to keep the channel up.


PBS Kids' ratings are hugely up year-over-year. IIRC 4Kids' Toonzai actually has seen year-over-year increases as well.
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Haterater



Joined: 30 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 7:19 pm Reply with quote
@ Primus

That pleasing to know, thank you. Glad there will be something for the younger set to watch on basic TV for a good long while, at least for PBS. Not sure for 4Kids if they keep getting deep into legal trouble and lose. Hate to see Toozai go if they can't keep things afloat within their operations.
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Mike Hazama



Joined: 13 Dec 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 8:08 pm Reply with quote
Shenl742 wrote:
You'd have to be an absolute and total imbecile if you can't understand the general story or premise behind those shows just because of some edits and bad dialogue. Especially Yugioh


I hope I'm not the only one who sees the irony of this post Razz

Never judge a show by a 4Kids dub, bro. Anime rule 101. Come back after you watch the original One Piece, Yugioh, and etc. Hope you also don't judge Super Sentai on the awful Power Rangers shows.
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Shenl742



Joined: 11 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 8:25 pm Reply with quote
Mike Hazama wrote:
Shenl742 wrote:
You'd have to be an absolute and total imbecile if you can't understand the general story or premise behind those shows just because of some edits and bad dialogue. Especially Yugioh


I hope I'm not the only one who sees the irony of this post Razz

Never judge a show by a 4Kids dub, bro. Anime rule 101. Come back after you watch the original One Piece, Yugioh, and etc. Hope you also don't judge Super Sentai on the awful Power Rangers shows.


What, you think I'm lying? And I'm not familiar with any of the originals? Good, that's good, you just keep doing that. Why don't you dig up some proof whle you're at it.

I mean, I'm not arguing that all the edits and such weren't awful.

I'm just pissed off that certain people are elevating beyond what it was.

But you know what? I'm tired of arguing over stuff I really don't care about anymore. Not gonna post in this thread anymore.

You all keep hermorraging over this stuff.
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TitanXL



Joined: 08 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 8:59 pm Reply with quote
Shenl742 wrote:
I'm just pissed off that certain people are elevating beyond what it was.


So you're upset entirely because people like stuff you don't.

Fair enough, I suppose. You don't like it, but plenty people do. Don't see the big deal on why you get so upset over it. Just like some people don't like ninjas and some don't like pirates. Your entire argument is "it's about cards, so there". Well, Cardcaptors was about "cards" so, what, that show deserved what it got? Let's take it a step further. One Piece is about pirates, so there, and everyone knows pirates are worse than cards, so that makes it even worse.

Since when was "it's about X" any kind of numerical value of quality and what a show deserves? It's not, let's be honest, it has nothing to do with that, and trying to dumb it down to being as such is, quite frankly, ignorant
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Mike Hazama



Joined: 13 Dec 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 9:53 pm Reply with quote
Shenl742 wrote:
You all keep hermorraging over this stuff.


You seem to be the only one hemorrhaging, dude.
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