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NEWS: 4Kids' Yu-Gi-Oh! License Is Still in Force, Court Rules


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enurtsol



Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 13723
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 10:42 pm Reply with quote
Yeah, for instance, plenty of people like the Pokemon dub. Nothing to be upset over, guys, just because ya don't like something. Smile
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Sunday Silence



Joined: 22 Jun 2010
Posts: 2047
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 3:22 am Reply with quote
kaiser11492 wrote:
agila61 wrote:
luisedgarf wrote:
... More than the U.S. judges will almost always decides towards an American company when Japanese (and East Asian) companies are dealed. ...
Using this case to argue that US courts discriminate against East Asian companies does more to undermine than support the claim. It makes it sound like a face saving excuse for their own lawyers.


If the reason why 4kids won was because of racial bias, then I am going to be supremely mad.


Don't look into it that hard.

Sure, Kahn had made comments in the past where he's argued that for Anime to "prosper" in the USA, it needs a blatant whitewash for it to succeed, and had dismal hopes for Manga as a whole stating it's an outdated medium. But he could've justified such stupidity business wise, which is scary enough.

You could make a correlation in this ruling with Facebook and Twitter comments after the 2011 Tohoku Earthquake, Whale Wars, and Japanese Internment and War Propaganda during WWII. But thats stretching it.
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kaiser11492



Joined: 19 Feb 2011
Posts: 159
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 4:10 am Reply with quote
Sunday Silence wrote:
kaiser11492 wrote:
agila61 wrote:
luisedgarf wrote:
... More than the U.S. judges will almost always decides towards an American company when Japanese (and East Asian) companies are dealed. ...
Using this case to argue that US courts discriminate against East Asian companies does more to undermine than support the claim. It makes it sound like a face saving excuse for their own lawyers.


If the reason why 4kids won was because of racial bias, then I am going to be supremely mad.


Don't look into it that hard.

Sure, Kahn had made comments in the past where he's argued that for Anime to "prosper" in the USA, it needs a blatant whitewash for it to succeed, and had dismal hopes for Manga as a whole stating it's an outdated medium. But he could've justified such stupidity business wise, which is scary enough.

You could make a correlation in this ruling with Facebook and Twitter comments after the 2011 Tohoku Earthquake, Whale Wars, and Japanese Internment and War Propaganda during WWII. But thats stretching it.


Kahn's comments to me is just a precedent for future isolation of other cultures. In my opinion, it seemed to be just a sweet way of saying Japanese culture is dangerous and America needs blinders on because American culture is the only culture that matters. If it wasn't sweetened, then it would sound more racist, which doesn't go well with the public.

I'm not Japanese, but I was born in another country which has a different culture than the U.S. So if Kahn and others are allowed to shield people from "dangerous" Japanese culture by saying they need to make severe edits to make it work, then what's stopping them from stopping other cultures?

What do you mean by the earthquake? Wouldn't that theoretically shift the court's sympathy towards Japan? Also, how's is the rest possibly related to the court's decision? (I know you said that would be stretching it, but if it played even a minor role, how would it tip the scale exactly?)
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kaiser11492



Joined: 19 Feb 2011
Posts: 159
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 4:14 am Reply with quote
TitanXL wrote:
I can recall tons of times they censored out death (Gotsumon and Pumpmon being "condemned to the dungeon"), Japanese ("It's written in Digicode!" and guns (Beelzebumon + Pinocchimon's entire arc was cut down to 5 minutes since the entire episode was him chasing Takeru with a revolver and tormenting him by shooting Digimon in the face to kill them and trying to do the same to Takeru) Revolmon actually got censored quite a bit and they didn't allow him to shoot anyone like in the original.


Still, Digimon dub way better done than anything 4kids has done. Revolmon wouldn't possible be on screen if 4kids was in charge. Death is still acknowledged (Ken's brother, Oikawa, Cody's father, etc.). 4kids refuses to admit the concept.
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Sunday Silence



Joined: 22 Jun 2010
Posts: 2047
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 5:30 am Reply with quote
kaiser11492 wrote:
What do you mean by the earthquake?


Seeing that Sankaku Complex isn't quite a NSFW site, I had to compensate with this:

http://www.japanprobe.com/2011/07/16/world-cup-facebook-status-updates-remember-pearl-harbor-bomb-japan-here-comes-another-tsunami/
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TheSwedishElf



Joined: 21 May 2011
Posts: 300
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 11:55 am Reply with quote
It's not even just Japanese culture 4Kids tried to hide, it was pretty much EVERY culture that wasn't American or British. Hell, on Shaman King, we were told a guy from Ireland was from the North Pole, Len and Jun were turned British, and Karlsruhe was only referred to as "Faust's home village".
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Chagen46



Joined: 27 Jun 2010
Posts: 4377
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 3:38 pm Reply with quote
Remember, racist/ignorant white viewers (including kids) are still a large demographic. Those edits are there to keep them in. You could see the same thing in that old "Black Guy in a horror film dies first" trope--include a black character to not appear racist, then kill him off first to satisfy the racist white portion of your viewership.

These edits are under the same principle. I'm not endorsing 4kids nor racism, but business is business.
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Sunday Silence



Joined: 22 Jun 2010
Posts: 2047
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 8:59 pm Reply with quote
Chagen46 wrote:
Remember, racist/ignorant white viewers (including kids) are still a large demographic. Those edits are there to keep them in. You could see the same thing in that old "Black Guy in a horror film dies first" trope--include a black character to not appear racist, then kill him off first to satisfy the racist white portion of your viewership.

These edits are under the same principle. I'm not endorsing 4kids nor racism, but business is business.


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PurpleWarrior13



Joined: 05 Sep 2009
Posts: 1829
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 1:03 am Reply with quote
kaiser11492 wrote:
TitanXL wrote:
I can recall tons of times they censored out death (Gotsumon and Pumpmon being "condemned to the dungeon"), Japanese ("It's written in Digicode!" and guns (Beelzebumon + Pinocchimon's entire arc was cut down to 5 minutes since the entire episode was him chasing Takeru with a revolver and tormenting him by shooting Digimon in the face to kill them and trying to do the same to Takeru) Revolmon actually got censored quite a bit and they didn't allow him to shoot anyone like in the original.


Still, Digimon dub way better done than anything 4kids has done. Revolmon wouldn't possible be on screen if 4kids was in charge. Death is still acknowledged (Ken's brother, Oikawa, Cody's father, etc.). 4kids refuses to admit the concept.


Actually, their version of Tai Chi Chasers keep's spoiler[ Rai's mother's death perfectly intact].
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TitanXL



Joined: 08 Jun 2010
Posts: 4036
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 1:32 am Reply with quote
Sunday Silence wrote:
kaiser11492 wrote:
What do you mean by the earthquake?


Seeing that Sankaku Complex isn't quite a NSFW site, I had to compensate with this:

http://www.japanprobe.com/2011/07/16/world-cup-facebook-status-updates-remember-pearl-harbor-bomb-japan-here-comes-another-tsunami/


Not sure what's worse, the comments or the fact a disturbing number of people seem to think Pearl Harbor was an American victory. What exactly is school teaching these people?
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kaiser11492



Joined: 19 Feb 2011
Posts: 159
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 2:45 am Reply with quote
TheSwedishElf wrote:
It's not even just Japanese culture 4Kids tried to hide, it was pretty much EVERY culture that wasn't American or British. Hell, on Shaman King, we were told a guy from Ireland was from the North Pole, Len and Jun were turned British, and Karlsruhe was only referred to as "Faust's home village".


Wait, British culture is tolerate by 4kids? That's pretty hypocritical for 4kids. British culture has many differences from American culture (Britain has nobility, strict gun-control, a history of health care, cricket, etc.). I also remember 4kids letting in French (ex. Sherry from 5Ds) and German (ex. Franz from GX and Siegfried von Schroeder from DM) culture/references. They even referenced Hispanic culture by giving the character Frost in GX a Hispanic accent. What exactly is 4kids' issues? I ask because they are constantly being inconsistent and contradictory
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kaiser11492



Joined: 19 Feb 2011
Posts: 159
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 2:52 am Reply with quote
TitanXL wrote:
Sunday Silence wrote:
kaiser11492 wrote:
What do you mean by the earthquake?


Seeing that Sankaku Complex isn't quite a NSFW site, I had to compensate with this:

http://www.japanprobe.com/2011/07/16/world-cup-facebook-status-updates-remember-pearl-harbor-bomb-japan-here-comes-another-tsunami/


Not sure what's worse, the comments or the fact a disturbing number of people seem to think Pearl Harbor was an American victory. What exactly is school teaching these people?


How come people aren't getting this riled up when we face Britain in something? I mean, we freed ourselves from their grasp when we grew tired of their rule. The British also burned down the capital also. And what about Spain? Nobody seems to mention or get heated up about Spain and the USS Maine (I know the sinking of the Maine was accidental, but Americans didn't know that at the time).
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TitanXL



Joined: 08 Jun 2010
Posts: 4036
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 4:45 am Reply with quote
kaiser11492 wrote:
Wait, British culture is tolerate by 4kids? That's pretty hypocritical for 4kids. British culture has many differences from American culture (Britain has nobility, strict gun-control, a history of health care, cricket, etc.). I also remember 4kids letting in French (ex. Sherry from 5Ds) and German (ex. Franz from GX and Siegfried von Schroeder from DM) culture/references. They even referenced Hispanic culture by giving the character Frost in GX a Hispanic accent. What exactly is 4kids' issues? I ask because they are constantly being inconsistent and contradictory


There's not really any consistency or anything to these changes and practices from what I can tell. Other cultures only seem to be tolerated when they can make a stereotypical joke out of it. It's funny because they'll change random Japanese people into other cultures for the sake of it a lot of the time.. like making Ryou Bakura British. GX had a lot of stereotypical accents in the dub from what I remember of it, as you mentioned.
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TheSwedishElf



Joined: 21 May 2011
Posts: 300
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 2:38 pm Reply with quote
Using Shaman King as an example again, how about their changing of Ryu to Rio, a stereotypical flirtatious Mexican with an obnoxious accent? And I recall Len, who was originally Chinese, spouting off tons of British slang and making references to British stereotypes, then Lyserg, and actual British character comes in, and he's not British anymore. Note also that I don't think it was ever mentioned that Faust is German--probably cause they couldn't find any Schwartzenegger references they could make using him. They did, however, make him sound very female for some reason and refuse to call Eliza his wife.

Actually, now I can see why Fighting Foodons and Ultimate Muscle were the only anime dubbed by 4Kids where culture was allowed--they're already jam-packed with stereotypes.
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kaiser11492



Joined: 19 Feb 2011
Posts: 159
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:05 pm Reply with quote
TheSwedishElf wrote:
Using Shaman King as an example again, how about their changing of Ryu to Rio, a stereotypical flirtatious Mexican with an obnoxious accent? And I recall Len, who was originally Chinese, spouting off tons of British slang and making references to British stereotypes, then Lyserg, and actual British character comes in, and he's not British anymore. Note also that I don't think it was ever mentioned that Faust is German--probably cause they couldn't find any Schwartzenegger references they could make using him. They did, however, make him sound very female for some reason and refuse to call Eliza his wife.

Actually, now I can see why Fighting Foodons and Ultimate Muscle were the only anime dubbed by 4Kids where culture was allowed--they're already jam-packed with stereotypes.


So this proves that 4kids is simultaneously xenophobic and hypocritical. They state they want to make their shows more in line with American culture, which they do by removing any references to foreign cultures. But, at the same time, they will allow British/European references.

After watching various 4kids shows, the foreign cultures they tend to reference or keep are:

British
French
German
Russian
Hispanic
Australian

why are these cultures treated with respect by them?
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