Forum - View topic

Title translations, or lack thereof (rant).

The title is likely the only thing apart from characters' names that I'll say out loud or even pronounce mentally, and to have the quasi-gibberish soundtrack interrupted by something that I can sound out and understand, leaves me somewhat jarred. I guess my perfect title would be english in text but japanese in sound? This sounds crazy even to me, again perhaps I'm alone in this regard.

Personally, I'm one of those that hates seeing Zero no Tsukaima as "Familiar of Zero".

"Mushshi" is much cleaner than "Mushi Master". It just sounds much weaker as a title.

"Seirei no Moribito" is much better than "Guardian of the Spirit". I prefer "Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuuutsu" over "The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya", although I refer to both as simply "Haruhi" in passing. I prefer "Naruto Shippuden" to "Naruto: Hurricane Chronicles". I also do like the sound of Hagane no Renkinjutsushi, but I do tend to call it "FMA" anyways.

I think a lot of the problem lies in the English name, properly translated, often comes across as a very weak title for a show. They just lack any punch in English. Maybe they lacked punch in Japanese to Japanese speakers as well, but I don't need to know that sort of thing.

Also, if you take the stance that all titles should be translated, then ALL titles should be translated. Zero no Tsukaima should instead become "Familiar of Rei". Bleach should become "Hyohakuzai". "Fairy Tail" would become "Yousei Shippo".

I really think that US anime companies would be much better served leaving the titles of shows alone, but employing the book industry practice of using huge font to emphasize key words, so for example the cover to "Zero no Tsukaima", the "Zero" could be huge, with the "no Tsukaima" beneath it in a much smaller font, so that the longer word takes up the same horizontal space.

And what about titles like "Kyouran Kazoku Nikki"? Which word deserves more attention there?

and wouldn't fansub groups be happier to get 50,000 downloads from people who understand an English title than only 5,000 downloads from people who understand the Japanese title?

But why are any of these inherently better, other than "it sounds cooler to me" and the foreign/exotic appeal?

I guess my perfect title would be english in text but japanese in sound? This sounds crazy even to me, again perhaps I'm alone in this regard.

Rurouni Kenshin/ Samurai X. I wouldn't mind Kenshin:Wandering Samurai or something similar. Samurai X just sounds to much like a bad video game title.

Detective Conan/ Case Closed. Seems a little odd as well.

If already-non-Japanese titles aren't a problem, then why are translated titles so jarring?

I didn't have any problems with Funimation's choice to leave that one as-is, since both "Mushi" and "Mushi-shi" are series-specific concepts that get defined over the course of the show.

But why are any of these inherently better, other than "it sounds cooler to me" and the foreign/exotic appeal?

Would Adult Swim ever have put "Code Geass Hangyaku no Lelouch" on their schedules?

It works when all the words are in English to begin with, but emphasizing the "Zero" in "Zero no Tsukaima" doesn't convey any additional information to a viewer who's not already familiar with the show through the light novels, the fansubs, or their Rie Kugimiya shrines.

And what about titles like "Kyouran Kazoku Nikki"? Which word deserves more attention there?

"Library War" sounds kind of cool.

It's not really a different thing though. Ginko's a Mushi-shi, Ed Elrich is a Renkenjutstu-shi, and yet that series title was changed. And the alchemy in FMA really wasn't terribly similar to western alchemy anyways (since FMA alchemy didn't actually transmute elements, merely reformed them).

They'd probably just go with "Code Geass". Do they keep the "Lelouch of the Rebellion" part in as it is?

Most of the titles mentioned in this thread fall into that category, where they MIGHT make sense to someone who's already experienced the series, but would give no useful information to people who don't know the series yet. I mean, as a new anime viewer, making my decision, for some godaweful reason, entirely on the title of the series, does "The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya REALLY convey that much more useful information than "Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuutsu"?

One, Suzumiya Haruhi sounds better and is more accurate than Haruhi Suzumiya, and rings better at the begining of the title than at the end.

Two, "The Melancholy of" anyone is just a soft title, and at best sounds like an emo arthouse film destined for anemic box office and perhaps an Oscar nod of they're lucky, not a hillariously strange comedy series. It just sounds better in Japanese, an the lack of English meaning in the title is actually an improvement over it having meaning in the English title.

One, Suzumiya Haruhi sounds better and is more accurate than Haruhi Suzumiya, and rings better at the begining of the title than at the end. Two, "The Melancholy of" anyone is just a soft title, and at best sounds like an emo arthouse film destined for anemic box office and perhaps an Oscar nod of they're lucky, not a hilariously strange comedy series. It just sounds better in Japanese, and the lack of English meaning in the title is actually an improvement over it having meaning in the English title.

So what should we do? Call it "Frenzy Family Diary"? I'd rather watch a show with a title I don't understand a word of than "Frenzy Family Diary" or any equivalent (no translation of that sounds even remotely good).

Zalis116 wrote:

and wouldn't fansub groups be happier to get 50,000 downloads from people who understand an English title than only 5,000 downloads from people who understand the Japanese title?

What? Are you saying that 10 times as many people will download any given file from a fansubber if they translate the title into English?

Like, I would be appalled if Kyoran Kazoku Nikki were ever renamed to "Frenzy Family Diary".

But this is a matter of personal preference. A title you insist should be translated into English I might think would sound ridiculous if translated. Vice Versa. How do we decide what to translate and what not to if we don't have clear precedents on what should and shouldn't be translated?

Longer titles often cause problems, as has already been pointed out with Kiminozo - "Rumbling Hearts" is so infelicitous as to be just stupid. "The Eternity you Wish For" is better, but what exactly was wrong with just "Kiminozo"? It's what a lot of people in Japan called it.

Similarly, what about Saishuu Heiki Kanojo? "My Girlfriend is the Ultimate Weapon"? "Final Weapon Girlfriend"? I'm really glad Viz opted to go with the Japanese abbreviation, "Saikano", which again is what it was commonly called in Japan.

Still though with any title you really gotta research it first. Going on title alone is never going to tell you enough to make a reasonable decision on whether to check out a particular anime series or not.

With rare exceptions, newcomers are less likely to try a series on a lark whose title isn't in English than one that is.

Besides, I find "The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya" to be plenty descriptive, as it gives the instant impression that the main character is a very moody girl (which she is).

We'll never agree on this point. For an English translation, "Haruhi Suzumiya" is more accurate because that's how English naming conventions work. (Frankly, I've always found giving names in Japanese order while speaking in English to sound very weird.)

When it comes to titles like "Elf wo karu monotachi," "Those Who Hunt Elves" is far less awkward and more "fantasy" in nature than "Elf Hunter People."

Even casual fans who pick up the box off the shelves might look at it and think, "Gee, it says 'Melancholy' on here but there's all these pictures of smiling girls in bunny outfits. This must be one crazy show!" Whereas "Yuuutsu" doesn't invoke any reaction but confusion.

But we're not in Japan, nor are we Japanese.

Importing them unquestioningly over here would be like exporting a product called "ST: TNG" to non-English-speaking markets and expecting the title to work because "that's how American fans refer to it."

But the initial interest has to start somewhere, right? If someone's going to do further investigation, don't you'd think that eye- or ear-catching titles would be first on the list?

"My Girlfriend is the Ultimate Weapon"? "Final Weapon Girlfriend"? I'm really glad Viz opted to go with the Japanese abbreviation, "Saikano", which again is what it was commonly called in Japan.

Quote:

With rare exceptions, newcomers are less likely to try a series on a lark whose title isn't in English than one that is.

I don't see why. If neither title has any meaning to them, then why choose the English title over the Japanese?

Quote:

Besides, I find "The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya" to be plenty descriptive, as it gives the instant impression that the main character is a very moody girl (which she is).

Really?

Really?

You really find that title to be descriptive of the series? You'd actually pick up the DVD expecting what the title promises, a moody series about an emo little girl named Haruhi and her emo angst, and at the end of the first DVD yuo'd have felt that your choice was made wisely? The significant amount of comedy and ridiculousness present in the series wouldn't seem "out of left field" when compared to the title to you?

Japanese names should never be reversed, it just gets confusing. Until you learn which words tend to be first names and which tend to be last, it's often very difficult to tell which name is meant to be the first name and which the last, since sometimes they're flipped, and sometimes they're left alone. Better to leave them all alone, then it's perfectly simple. American people's names are never flipped in Japanese dialog, why should Japanese people's names be flipped in English dialog? Are we just that stupid as a nation?