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NEWS: 5 Anime Studios Sue 4 'Heavy Downloaders' in Singapore

Greed/Quark: More likely potential value. Agreed that if someone continues to download and watch it must have some value to them. Whether they would have bought it otherwise is another matter. Many people end up buying things they never would have taken a chance on if they had to pay up-front. Even if you were to buy everything you downloaded once it became available in your region, of course, it wouldn't protect you from prosecution.

A lot of people seem to think everyone's neatly split into "downloaders" and "customers". People like in Daimao Raki should keep in mind that, had they been jailed or slapped with a $50,000 fine earlier on, they may not be the loyal customers they are today. The percentage of anime fans who download /some/ fansubs is far from insignificant, and though preventing downloading would cause some to buy more, actually crushing them all would simply take money away from the industry.

Daimao Raki wrote:

I don't download anime(can't say I didn't in the past), but I'm all for the anime companies suing and getting their money.

A lot of people seem to think everyone's neatly split into "downloaders" and "customers". People like in Daimao Raki should keep in mind that, had they been jailed or slapped with a $50,000 fine earlier on, they may not be the loyal customers they are today. The percentage of anime fans who download /some/ fansubs is far from insignificant, and though preventing downloading would cause some to buy more, actually crushing them all would simply take money away from the industry.

Sven Viking wrote:

A lot of people seem to think everyone's neatly split into "downloaders" and "customers". People like in Daimao Raki should keep in mind that, had they been jailed or slapped with a $50,000 fine earlier on, they may not be the loyal customers they are today. The percentage of anime fans who download /some/ fansubs is far from insignificant, and though preventing downloading would cause some to buy more, actually crushing them all would simply take money away from the industry.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I fully understand that some people will buy stuff after they've downloaded and watched it. I admit to downloading series from time to time (usually out of print or unlicensed stuff though) however, the difference is, I don't view the downloads as a replacement for a legit copy. I do eventually get around to buying DVDs of shows that I've downloaded and watched a good chunk of.
For me, the line isn't split so much between 'downloaders' and 'customers' it's more like 'those who pay for what they like' and 'those who think they can just get stuff for free'
And to be honest, I don't think they should crush the average downloader. If a person is downloading a few shows here and there, and is still buying DVDs, then I've got no problem with them. It's the serial downloaders, who never put a nickel back into the hobby that they claim they love and 'need' that bug me.

naruhodo569 wrote:

DmonHiro wrote: Here we go again. It's "Let's stop anime downloads with force - Part II: The New Enemy" The important thing to remember, kids, is that this really will never stop. Crack down and sue, and people will continue to share and download anyway.

So downloading joins all the alleged "victimless" crimes like prostitution & drugs where the law will keep chipping away.

DmonHiro wrote:

Here we go again. It's "Let's stop anime downloads with force - Part II: The New Enemy"

Alternitive? If you don't mind me asking.

The thing is that it isn't "another matter.".

So downloading joins all the alleged "victimless" crimes like prostitution & drugs where the law will keep chipping away. Some will continue to do the illegal activity, but others will stop because they don't really care to have their lives disrupted by being locked up, paying fines or having a criminal record haunt them if they're snagged under a criminal code.

One of the problems with Singapore is probably the lack of anime available on DVD. Sure, there's a lot of stuff on VCD, but it's a really poor video format. Also importing is a pain with the Singapore government rating everything which comes into the country and charging those who have imported DVDs the fees from the censorship board. I know this no real defence for what they did, but I'm just glad I don't live in that country. They are pretty stupid to continue doing what they did, and for not settling out of court. It's also odd that a lot of the copyright enforcement of anime seems to centring on Singapore. Anyone know why? I mean surely most fansubs aren't downloaded from there. I would have thought the majority of downloaders would be from the US. ...

edzieba wrote:

Kireek wrote: DmonHiro wrote: Here we go again. It's "Let's stop anime downloads with force - Part II: The New Enemy" Alternitive? If you don't mind me asking. Alternative? How about producing a product people want to pay for.

My theory is, if you liked a series enough to download and watch it all the way through, then you liked it enough that you should be paying for it. Obviously it was worth something, otherwise, why waste time downloading it?

Kireek wrote:

DmonHiro wrote: Here we go again. It's "Let's stop anime downloads with force - Part II: The New Enemy" Alternitive? If you don't mind me asking.

In all seriousness, there really isn't a alternitive. If the company doesn't do anything, more and more money will be lost. Despite what some fans think, anime isn't exactly cheap to make.

Kudo's to the company's suing the pirates.

Well yeah, except prostitution and drugs are actually serious issues that don't expectantly occur in a sentence that also contains the word fansub. On a side note Amsterdam is still standing, and as far as I know so is Las Vegas; it is my humble opinion that you should correct yourself in a manner in which you tightly roll the Sunday edition of the New York Times and then strike your head with it whilst verbally reprimanding yourself.

If you decide to follow through with my suggestion, I would be willing to offer further counseling.

As far as suing "heavy downloaders" go,well,they might as well start throwing lawsuits at ANN. I mean,how else do you think they've been doing the anime preview guides for each season since like '04? These people talk big Sh*t like,"oh boy,doing this is really gonna stop em". But,I know that there is no other way do deal wih the problem. If you people have more effective techniques,than lets hear them!!! My thing is... STOP UPLOADERS!!! That's the root of the "problem".

Quark wrote:

edzieba wrote: Kireek wrote: DmonHiro wrote: Here we go again. It's "Let's stop anime downloads with force - Part II: The New Enemy" Alternitive? If you don't mind me asking. Alternative? How about producing a product people want to pay for. My theory is, if you liked a series enough to download and watch it all the way through, then you liked it enough that you should be paying for it. Obviously it was worth something, otherwise, why waste time downloading it?

That's actually a really dumb comeback, and rather pointless too. See, that's like saying that every single possible TV show you ever watched, especially right through, you should be paying for. Should I be sending you a bill for reimbursing that childhood of yours? Or any of the series you watch now on TV? How about everyone else? Should they be paying for what's on TV just because they happened to watch it right through? No. We watch it because it's available. That's why. If it wasn't there, then the temptation wouldn't be there. Why do we watch what's on TV? Do we like it? Maybe, but not necessarily. We watch it because it's on. Sometimes it's because it's the best of the worst that's on during that time slot. And in before all the "well it's licensed, and the commercials help pay for it" blah blah blah. So? It's still just a matter of it being there. Just because it's licensed doesn't mean that the commercials are going to pay for the terrible ratings it's geting if no one's watching it.

I admit that I download anime. Why? Because of other people's recommendations. Do I still buy anime? Sure I do, but only the ones that are really good in my books. Others may not agree with my opinion on what's good, and what's not, but it's my nonetheless. So if I want to side with the person that said "How about producing a product people want to pay for", I will. Why? Because I've probably dropped close to 200 anime after watching just the first 3-7 episodes because it SO wasn't for me. And that's the thing. A lot of series out there are not for all of us. Just because one person like Girls Bravo and Eiken, doesn't mean everyone will. I know I sure didn't, but I know people who'd crucify me if they knew I didn't enjoy it on the same plain as them.

And no, nothing good comes from suing people. Just look at Napster and Metallica, and how many fans dropped them. Then look at mp3 downloads and Limp Bizkit, and how many fans they gained.

Greed1914 wrote:

The thing is that it isn't "another matter.".

"Another question", then -- my point was that one does not decide the other. Still, many were talking specifically of the industry's profitability, and in my opinion actual control of their intellectual property regardless of financial loss or benefit is, if not another matter, at least a separate discussion.


In general, though: Sorry Greed and Quark, I mistook your meanings, and you're probably right in this case. I just hope they don't go the way of the RIAA, where two songs is enough for prosecution (it sure has stopped illegal music sharing, though). I feel it unlikely that the size of 'heavy downloaders' DVD collections (or VCD, in this case?) will be considered in court.

On the other side, things have been looking promising for legal methods of downloading anime, lately. Despite my sarcastic remark about music sharing above, it probably has been knocked back considerably by services like iTunes (keeping in mind that Internet usage and computer literacy is growing constantly). Hopefully we'll see a similar effect with anime (and film in general) over the next few years.