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The reason there was a big time gap between the second and third seasons of Shakugan no Shana is because the second season caught up to the Light Novels, so they had to wait for the novel series to finish before they could make a third season.

The novel series is over now, so I think it's safe to say that this will be the final Shakugan no Shana anime, unless they want to completely break away from the Light Novels, which seems unlikely. Well, I think there are still a few side stories and one huge flashback novel they never animated, so maybe we'll see some additional OVAs.

Incidentally, one of the main reasons the second season dragged on so much was because of the fact that it was based on far fewer light novels. The first season was roughly based on novels 1 through 9, I believe. With some changes of course, and an ending arc that was anime original but incorporated some elements that happened elsewhere in the novels.

Novel number 10 was a big flashback that was never animated for some reason. Maybe because it involved the previous Flaming Hair Blazing Eyes hunter, so it didn't have Shana or Yuji in it. As I said above, I could potentially see them doing this as a new OVA if the third season does well enough.

The second season was thus based on novels 11 through 15 only, though they also animated one side story from a Shakugan no Shana S novel in it. (The Margery flashback.) So there was a LOT more anime original stuff in the second season, including the entire thing with Konoe. Oh, and the first two episodes of the second season are based on a Shana video game. So the first 9 or so episodes of the second season is mostly stuff not from the Light Novels. Not sure if that was really the smart choice to make, but that's what they did.

Last edited by dtm42 on Fri Jan 20, 2012 4:58 pm; edited 1 time in total

LOL, you've got three complete fans of Moretsu Pirates together and they act like blind diehard fanboys (or fangirl, in the case of Bamboo). Really, it came across as three Gundam fanboys defending Zeta, I could only chuckle at how oblivious they were to the behaviour they were displaying.

My complaints about the skirts are legitimate. They aren't worn on the ISS and they wouldn't be used in the future. Their problems are inherent, and no amount of weights, velcro or stiff fabric is going to change it. The only way skirts would be accepted in space is if social norms regarding showing your underwear have changed to the point where you can walk down the street with your panties showing and no-one thinks twice about it. But did we see that in the shots of the city? No, so that argument don't fly my boy.

So anyway, when I'm being taken out of the episode because of such an obvious fault, that isn't nitpicking, that is a sign that these people haven't thought at all about the dynamics of skirts in space. Or else they did, and threw them in anyway. It doesn't matter either way, as the show is negatively impacting its own believability and by extension my enjoyment.

I will give them props for not showing anything to the audience, but that's a trivially minor consolation. Heck, if they're going to go that far and use them, not showing panty shots is actually strange. Prime opportunities for viewing were lost in episode two. I say if you're going to harm your characters by making them show off their underwear without a second thought, at least indulge the audience. Going halfway doesn't make either side happy.

Oh, and am I really one of those fans who complain when you rag on about "dumb, fanservice crap"? I love it when you do that.

Oh, and Bamboo, here's a thought: don't use skirts at all, wear trousers instead. You really think that girls have to skirts? Even the high school I went to let girls of all ages wear trousers and shorts as part of the official uniform. This isn't a case of, "Oh, the girls had to wear skirts, therefore it's great that they didn't show any panty shots that episode." Instead, it is more like, "No school would make the girls wear skirts in micro-gravity, there's always trousers and shorts." Try to take your fangirl goggles off and actually think.

As far as the mini-shows, I count them as 0.1 shows, so that's 17.3 total.

I do agree with the whole idea of reviewing as soon as possible, mainly because that's when you have the most details frsh in your head. As for the whole "Show, Don't Tell" ideaology, I do think that it is important and preferable to simply telling, but sometimes there is just info that needs to be told and there just isn't quite enough time to properly show it off. Granted, that could end up being simply bad writing and composition, but I do think that there are times where "Tell, Don't Show" does work. It's not an ideal method, though.

In relation to DMP's handling of Barbara, I really do think that someone should try using Kickstarter for some niche animes. There are certainly some genres & specific titles that could more than likely work in this style. For example, considering how mech anime isn't something that we get a lot of nowadays, I'm sure that mech fans would be willing to "pitch in" and help out in bringing over more mecha. Also, you never know... Kickstarter could be the way North America can get Legend of the Galactic Heroes in the end.

You'd think that after all this time I would no longer find dtm42 losing his shit over skirts in space amusing, but I guess there are still a few "guffawing at him not with him" molecules left.

dtm42 wrote:

LOL, you've got three complete fans of Moretsu Pirates together and they act like blind diehard fanboys (or fangirl, in the case of Bamboo). Really, it came across as three Gundam fanboys defending Zeta, I could only chuckle at how oblivious they were to the behaviour they were displaying.

My complaints about the skirts are legitimate. They aren't worn on the ISS and they wouldn't be used in the future. Their problems are inherent, and no amount of weights, velcro or stiff fabric is going to change it. The only way skirts would be accepted in space is if social norms regarding showing your underwear have changed to the point where you can walk down the street with your panties showing and no-one thinks twice about it. But did we see that in the shots of the city? No, so that argument don't fly my boy.

So anyway, when I'm being taken out of the episode because of such an obvious fault, that isn't nitpicking, that is a sign that these people haven't thought at all about the dynamics of skirts in space. Or else they did, and threw them in anyway. It doesn't matter either way, as the show is negatively impacting its own believability and by extension my enjoyment.

I will give them props for not showing anything to the audience, but that's a trivially minor consolation. Heck, if they're going to go that far and use them, not showing panty shots is actually strange. Prime opportunities for viewing were lost in episode two. I say if you're going to harm your characters by making them show off their underwear without a second thought, at least indulge the audience. Going halfway doesn't make either side happy.

Oh, and am I really one of those fans who complain when you rag on about "dumb, fanservice crap"? I love it when you do that.

Oh, and Bamboo, here's a thought: don't use skirts at all, wear trousers instead. You really think that girls have to skirts? Even the high school I went to let girls of all ages wear trousers and shorts as part of the official uniform. This isn't a case of, "Oh, the girls had to wear skirts, therefore it's great that they didn't show any panty shots that episode." Instead, it is more like, "No school would make the girls wear skirts in micro-gravity, there's always trousers and shorts." Try to take your fangirl goggles off and actually think.

You totally proved their point about nitpicking. Whether the skirts work with gravity or not is not a vital plot point, the narrative still makes sense.

Also I didn't think they were being fanboys or whatever either. They just said they liked it. What's wrong with that? And what's wrong with being a fanboy/girl anyway? Just means you're enthusiastic about something.

And Zac expressly said, you like what you like, I like what I like. No big deal, when talking about fanservice shows. But you seem to have taken offence at that?

(Anyway, I'm off to listen to the rest of the show and do some washing up. 40mins left!)

Last edited by DmonHiro on Fri Jan 20, 2012 5:52 pm; edited 2 times in total

OK, usually I don't really mind anything you guys say, but Zac and Banboo were really being pricks this time. I understand you don't like fanservice shows, but it's a little annoying when a show actually has story, but you don't care. Let's take Lotte no Omocha. The "suck dick to live" part didn't even HAPPEN, wasn't mentioned past episode 1, and maybe one more time in episode 10 or 11, and was actually a story about a little girl longing for her mother, but all you talk about is the "suck dick to live" part THAT NEVER EVEN HAPPENED. What, because they maybe implied it one time over 13 episode invalidates absolutely everything? Also, the condesending tone got really annoying as well.

For someone who complains that people get defensive, you sure try your best to attack it every chance you get. It's your podcast, and you can say whatever you want, but attacking a show and then complaining that people get defensive, and then say that people should enjoy it if they have fun with it, you guys are VERY hypocritical.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7IDEzma4zQ

Wow, that really does sound like something out of a Disney movie Shocked

dtm42 wrote:

LOL

Something in common, as this was my thought after reading your post, dtm42.

I stand by my words: you are entertaining to read.

*shifts into 2nd gear.

I've not listened to the podcast yet, but I'm excited over it. Two of my favorite reviewers talking about anime.

In the spirit of Bamboo's last review on Shelf Life (not as a sub)...

*grabs a box of tissue.

dtm42 wrote:

... My complaints about the skirts are legitimate. They aren't worn on the ISS and they wouldn't be used in the future. ...

There is a difference between the point being valid and people laughing at people who get their knickers in a twist over the fact that the miniskrts in space is a bit silly.

I think this is my second post here, and I kind of just wanted to offer a possible explanation as to why fans like that Type-Moon kind of storytelling; and similarly dislike Redline.

I think it has to do less with a rejection of the ‘show-don’t tell’ rule and more of fans projecting their expectations onto something that was never going to please them in the first place (so yeah, I’m not really disagreeing with Zac; more shifting/tying the argument to other points made in the podcast).

I think Zac said something like this in his review, but Redline is entertainment, possibly the most entertaining anime ever made. And I think at its inception, Koike never intended it to be anything other than that. However, entertainment doesn’t in any way mean brainless, and once again, like both of the reviews state, the story is economical and completely complements the type of movie that Redline is.

I think it is important to recognize that Redline is almost entirely a self-contained narrative. It doesn’t ask a lot out of the viewer other than making you realize that it is a perfectly executed and that it plays to strengths of the medium (or maybe wants to be a standard for the medium, who knows).

It is a film that has a lot of emotional resonance, and some commentary, but it never makes that commentary the driving purpose behind the film. It is exhilarating, and funny, and cool, and has great characters. But it wants you to say “that was awesome!” rather than ponder the mysteries of the universe or whatever. And in that sense Redline shares a lot more in common with something like Indiana Jones than films with more subtext.

No one is going to tell you that Raiders of the Lost Ark is stupid or needs more story, so why Redline then?

That is where the plot dump style of storytelling comes in. The large amount of information and droves of dialogue gives an illusion that a story is somehow substantial. And fans think that makes the show they are watching more important, or possibly even validates what they are viewing. It is not a great method of storytelling, but fans think their time isn’t being wasted if “it all means something”, which I actually saw a lot of in the forum for the Redline review.

Redline never does that, because it doesn’t make sense within the context of its own story, and that is established in the first race. The people that are complaining about that are EXACTLY the same people who tell you “The manga/book is always better.”

They can’t make value judgments, or evaluate the film based on its own merits because that is not what they wanted. They can’t go in to Redline without already having that checklist in their mind, “How much pseudo-intellectual BS is in here? Does it have all my favorite character archetypes and story tropes? Nope? No sorry it sucks.” This is really a case of people not attempting to understand or think about what they are watching. If whatever they wanted isn’t in the movie, they will hate it.

(Anyway, I could be completely off base here, feel free to take a stab! Also, great show!)

Holy shit, dtm, no one else cares about the skirts. It'd be like if I suddenly started complaining about that episode of Planetes where Yuri sees into the dead astronaut's coffin and notices the picture in it, spoiler[as that should be impossible because having no light source inside the coffin would cause the window to reflect light rather than transmit it,] except my example is plot relevant and yours is trivia most people don't even consider. It's an insignificant flaw that you should just shut up about.

Poor Theron, all sports anime well forever be compared to Cross Game.

Yorozuya wrote:

You totally proved their point about nitpicking. Whether the skirts work with gravity or not is not a vital plot point, the narrative still makes sense.

Believe what you want, but it isn't nitpicking when my enjoyment is adversely affected. The writers don't appear to have a basic idea of how physics works, and they also haven't thought out social norms of the society they are depicting. Therefore the characters are not believable because they don't act like real people because the writing is making them do such incredibly weird and stupid things (like wearing skirts instead of trousers in space). But hey, maybe I'm just used to normal girls doing normal things like holding their skirts down when the wind blows them up.

They're likely wearing bloomers under their skirts.

dtm42 wrote:

snip

I think there's medication for that.

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