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Cecilthedarkknight_234



Joined: 02 Apr 2011
Posts: 3819
Location: Louisville, KY
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:15 pm Reply with quote
Sir Amyas Leigh wrote:
encrypted12345 wrote:
Because in all honesty, the average eroge is quite terrible.


true dat brotha. True dat.

Funny how its mostly 'average' eroge that gets licensed here... fantranslators fill in the gaps but...


true enough but the best ones that are legally here i would recommend are shuffle, my girl friend is the president, snow sakura, dacapo 2, school days and demon bane. The rest are just uguu..so painful...
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GVman



Joined: 14 Jul 2010
Posts: 729
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:48 pm Reply with quote
superdry wrote:
Ojamajo LimePie wrote:

Visual novels are an evolution of old text-based adventure games. Not all VN include romance. Chunsoft has a series of mystery games; horror VN are also popular. Nobody is going to call Higurashi a dating sim. Laughing


Choose your own adventure style books are pretty much the beginnings of visual novels. "Dating sim" is more of a sub-genre of visual novels.

When people say "VNs are dumb" or whatever, I always have to ask if they have ever read choose your own adventure books (like Lone Wolf!) since they are pretty much the same, but via a different medium.


Not all of them are so big on the choice option, though. Saya no Uta comes to mind, as that one only had two questions that popped up throughout the entire game.

@Cecilthedarkknight_234: Add KiraKira and Saya no Uta to that list and I'd agree with you.
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Beatdigga



Joined: 26 Oct 2003
Posts: 4352
Location: New York
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:19 pm Reply with quote
Man, the Simpsons arcade game. I remember growing up, my parents would, once a month or so, take me to this restaurant that had 3 or 4 arcade machines in the waiting area, and the Simpsons arcade machine was one of them. Much time was wasted while waiting for our table to be called.

I hope they come out with an iOS version. It seems perfect for that simple, portable gameplay.

Oh, right Katawa Shoujo. Creepy moe game is still creepy. And visual novels tend to be fairly soulless as is.
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encrypted12345



Joined: 25 Jan 2012
Posts: 715
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:32 pm Reply with quote
Beatdigga wrote:
Oh, right Katawa Shoujo. Creepy moe game is still creepy. And visual novels tend to be fairly soulless as is.


A lot of visual novels are soulless Sad, but saying all of them are soulless is like reading Twilight and declaring all books are soulless, or watching Bokusatsu Tenshi Dokuro chan and declaring that all anime is soulless.

Give it a try because face it. Do you really think that we would be trying so hard to promote this game on the (relatively) mainstream, anti-moe, Anime News Network website otherwise?
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toddc



Joined: 23 Jul 2007
Posts: 164
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:56 pm Reply with quote
Beatdigga wrote:
I hope they come out with an iOS version. It seems perfect for that simple, portable gameplay.


There's a Simpsons Arcade game for the iPhone, but it's not quite the same.
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grooven



Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Posts: 1424
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:56 am Reply with quote
Wow reading all these absurd conceived notions of Visual Novels makes me roll my eyes. Not all visual novels even have choices nor do they have dating like simulation! They simply have a story presented with images, music and/or voices. Not all contain adult content either they cover different genres mystery, drama, horror and so forth.

To say that are dumb or stupid is just a demented generalization of stupidity/lack of knowledge. It is to say books or stories are stupid.

Moe has existed decades ago grow up and deal with it. It shouldn't prevent any person with an actual ability to appreciate a good story. If so well, your missing out and have ludicrous reason for doing so.
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superdry



Joined: 07 Jan 2012
Posts: 1309
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:47 am Reply with quote
GVman wrote:
superdry wrote:
Ojamajo LimePie wrote:

Visual novels are an evolution of old text-based adventure games. Not all VN include romance. Chunsoft has a series of mystery games; horror VN are also popular. Nobody is going to call Higurashi a dating sim. Laughing


Choose your own adventure style books are pretty much the beginnings of visual novels. "Dating sim" is more of a sub-genre of visual novels.

When people say "VNs are dumb" or whatever, I always have to ask if they have ever read choose your own adventure books (like Lone Wolf!) since they are pretty much the same, but via a different medium.


Not all of them are so big on the choice option, though. Saya no Uta comes to mind, as that one only had two questions that popped up throughout the entire game.


Well, of course...I was merely pointing out that both mediums are related to each other.
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Emerje



Joined: 10 Aug 2002
Posts: 7328
Location: Maine
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 6:24 am Reply with quote
DJcream wrote:
I've also been hesitant to pick up Soul Calibur 5 since it feels like the game has made a lot of dramatic changes in its core gameplay by adding but mostly removing most of its core cast from the previous game. This worries me since I was an Amy player.


SCV is the King of Fighters XII of the franchise. It's just so incredibly lacking compared to the previous 5 main games (starting with Soul Blade/Edge). No individual story for each character to play through leave a huge hole in the single player replay value. I love unlocking stories and linking the previous games together, but there's none of that here. There's only a story for two characters and they aren't even that interesting to begin with, but rather extremely annoying! Then there's the lack of any bonus content. No video gallery, no art gallery, no music gallery, all of that is absent. It's like an entirely new company made this game without playing any of the previous versions. Then there's the loss of many fighting styles like scythe, halberd, male Chinese sword, and various others. Character creator is OK, but not nearly as good as they made it out to be, only a certain selection of items can be altered for fit. Voice altering is entirely broken, any adjustment makes the voices sound metallic and unusable unless you're making some sort of robot.

I'm still messing around with it, but it's a major disappointment compared to previous games. I imagine they spent a lot on those high scores in the Japanese magazines.

Emerje
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toddc



Joined: 23 Jul 2007
Posts: 164
PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 7:51 pm Reply with quote
After reading some of the responses here, I'd like to elaborate a bit on how my awareness of moe affected my opinion of Katawa Shoujo. There's a good example during Hanako's birthday, where she's clutching her presents with brief and vaguely childlike happiness.

It's a naturally sympathetic cliche and a fairly realistic depiction of how people who've experienced childhood trauma can regress. It got to me. I like to think it would get to anyone who’s not a complete sociopath. But it's also true to the whole moe ideal and its tendency to present female characters as emotionally immature children in need of rescue. And knowing that damaged the scene for me.

Now, the game destroys this notion in its last act by revealing that spoiler[Hisao really isn't helping Hanako at all by treating her like a child and that their relationship can only exist if he acknowledges her as an equal], even if the story muddies the waters along the way. So I don't blame Katawa Shoujo as much as I blame a larger trend that influences a lot of anime-related fields and, consequently, colors my perceptions of them.

This is also why I now think that anyone even mildly intrigued should try Katawa Shojo. It provokes interesting views.


Last edited by toddc on Sat Feb 04, 2012 9:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Konopan



Joined: 06 Oct 2011
Posts: 396
PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 8:52 pm Reply with quote
On the topic of Megaman, and especially in reference to the "gritty realism no good" attitude, all I'll say is that infusing the series with some Orwellian concepts certainly hasn't hurt a certain Kentucky-based rock group.
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Mad_Scientist
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Joined: 08 Apr 2008
Posts: 3011
PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 10:45 pm Reply with quote
toddc wrote:
After reading some of the responses here, I'd like to elaborate a bit on how my awareness of moe affected my opinion of Katawa Shoujo. There's a good example during Hanako's birthday, where she's clutching her presents with brief and vaguely childlike happiness.

It's a naturally sympathetic cliche and a fairly realistic depiction of how people who've experienced childhood trauma can regress. It got to me. I like to think it would get to anyone who’s not a complete sociopath. But it's also true to the whole moe ideal and its tendency to present female characters as emotionally immature children in need of rescue. And knowing that damaged the scene for me.

Now, the game destroys this notion in its last act by revealing that spoiler[Hisao really isn't helping Hanako at all by treating her like a child and that their relationship can only exist if he acknowledges her as an equal], even if the story muddies the waters along the way. So I don't blame Katawa Shoujo as much as I blame a larger trend that influences a lot of anime-related fields and, consequently, colors my perceptions of them.

This is also why I now think that anyone even mildly intrigued should try Katawa Shojo. It provokes interesting views.


I guess I can understand that, but I still think it's a little unfair. Regardless of your reasons, in this case your judgement of something is not being based entirely on that thing's own merits, but is being colored by your distaste for certain trends. I suppose that is always somewhat the case for everyone (at least everyone who is even mildly bothered by the unoriginal use of cliches), but it's clear that your dislike for moe elements goes way behind a normal dislike for typical cliched elements, to the point where it seems like you consider them downright offensive.

But the problem is, there are a whole bunch of plot elements and situations that could be considered "moe," and many of them can be used effectively and tastefully as part of a larger framework in order to tell a good story. And the impression I get is that these elements can't be used at all without bothering you some, no matter how well done they are. That must make for a very frustrating viewing/playing experience at times.
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Heatth



Joined: 07 Feb 2008
Posts: 4
PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 1:36 am Reply with quote
toddc wrote:
After reading some of the responses here, I'd like to elaborate a bit on how my awareness of moe affected my opinion of Katawa Shoujo. There's a good example during Hanako's birthday, where she's clutching her presents with brief and vaguely childlike happiness.

It's a naturally sympathetic cliche and a fairly realistic depiction of how people who've experienced childhood trauma can regress. It got to me. I like to think it would get to anyone who’s not a complete sociopath. But it's also true to the whole moe ideal and its tendency to present female characters as emotionally immature children in need of rescue. And knowing that damaged the scene for me.

Now, the game destroys this notion in its last act by revealing that spoiler[Hisao really isn't helping Hanako at all by treating her like a child and that their relationship can only exist if he acknowledges her as an equal], even if the story muddies the waters along the way. So I don't blame Katawa Shoujo as much as I blame a larger trend that influences a lot of anime-related fields and, consequently, colors my perceptions of them.

This is also why I now think that anyone even mildly intrigued should try Katawa Shojo. It provokes interesting views.


You are absolutely correct. Hanako's route is especially designed to provoke this kind of thoughts. It is not wonder her route is one of the most popular (if not the most popular).

I do not think most of the critics in this thread were related to that, however. It is more of how you causally labeled Katawa Shoujo as a 'Dating Sim', somewhat dismissively.

First of all, there is a whole problem in acting as if such label was a negative one. Katawa Shoujo should be enough proof of how much better than it seems something can be. I bet there is lots of really good Dating Sim games. Not that I can tell, haven't played more then a couple myself.

More importantly is that, as said before, Katawa Shoujo is simply not a Dating Sim. It is a whole different genre altogether. To exemplify, Harvest Moon is closer to what a Dating Sim is (I actually call it a mix of Dating Sim with Farming Sim). Take out the whole 'farm' thing, and you will be expending most of your time talking with some girl and giving her presents, in the hope she will marry you in the future. Its gameplay is much closer to a traditional Dating Sim than Katawa Shoujo. Heck, Dragon Age is closer to a Dating Sim, gameplay wise (giving presents to raise relationship points is a staple of dating sims). Katawa Shoujo is a book with choices. It just happens to be a romance book.

Anyway, I am really glad you check it out, despite your initial prejudice. As a fan of the genre, I am really glad KS is pushing some awareness to concept. Showing the writing can be much better than people give credits to. The shitty VN most people hear about do exist and are the norm (every genre is filled with crappy things, after all), but the shinny gems of quality do exist and are not even that hidden. Of course, Katawa Shoujo itself only shows a small part of the genre. Some very popular VN are not even romance driven, after all. Fate/stay night and When They Cry are action/fantasy and horror/mystery, for example.
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Beatdigga



Joined: 26 Oct 2003
Posts: 4352
Location: New York
PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 11:32 am Reply with quote
toddc wrote:
Beatdigga wrote:
I hope they come out with an iOS version. It seems perfect for that simple, portable gameplay.


There's a Simpsons Arcade game for the iPhone, but it's not quite the same.


See, that's just dishonest.
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