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I actually enjoyed Gasaraki quite a bit, it & Nadesico were the first series my wife & I collected on DVD as they were being released on single dvds. I liked the tension & realism & the attention to details on the TA's (I've got plastic kits of the Raiden, Shinden & Ishtar mkII).

Nishida was an interesting character, the guy was willing to spoiler[ slash his eyes rather after seeing what has become of Japan (could have saved himself the trouble by offing himself back then instead of finally going through with it when they gave up on his plan?)]

Sam-I-Am is correct about the Belgistan conflict being modeled after Desert Storm/Shield & the CNN coverage of it - the reporter character had to be directly influenced by Peter Arnett...

I liked it more after marathon-ing it a year ago than I did the first time around (mainly due to the wait time between the single dvd releases).

The closing song ("Love Song" by Tomoko Tane) & it's accompanying animation is still one of my favorite sequences (still in my top 5), I'd daresay call it "perfect". The opener Message #9 by her is also pretty good.

Julia-the-Great wrote:

I don't think it's unreasonable that Yoko would be treated coldly due to her hair color. Japanese culture is a lot more conservative, and if I recall correctly, having a hair color that is not "the norm" is looked down upon.

This is true. It is still true today (slowly changing), and even more so 10 - 20 years ago (novel from 1991, anime from 2002).
Japanese / asian people basically all have black hair, so having a different hair color means that you dyed it, which means that you are a rebel or a punk and in any case somebody who sticks out. It is not only true for hair color, but also for curls. Similar scenes can be seen in quite a few anime and mangas, and other Japanese TV series or movies (Sailor Moon f.ex.).

Schools actually forbid their students to dye their hair, make it curly or even wear it longer than shoulder length without a braid (Yoko has a braid when she is at school). Nowadays this is usally not true anymore for high schools, but up to middle school these rules still seem to be common. A child with naturally brown or curly hair afaik needs to get a medical certification.

In 12 Kingdoms it is known to her parents (of course) and to her teachers that it's Yoko's natural hair, but everybody else will assume otherwise, so her partents push her to dye it black because else it is "embarassing" and apparently the teachers at school find it hard to believe (brown hair is one thing, red hair is weird even for western standards). Not to mention Yoko's school seems particularily old-fashioned with seperated classes for boys and girls. It's all at the beginning of the very first episode and there Yoko is even opposed to the rebellish "gal"-type character, for whom she will be mistaken by other people because of her hair.

dtm42 wrote:

but the show's message is constantly thus: "if you can't do this and everything else then you're weak".

I think the message if anything is more like, "you have more potential than you might think. You can grow stronger. Believe in yourself". Much more of a typical anime message Wink

And also imho the show has quite a bit of social criticism, especially in the parts that take place in the real world and in how Yoko develops as a character.

Hardgear wrote:

That being said, I spent the first few episodes thinking "wow, THIS is what everyone was raving about?" But it really did get A LOT better.

This was one of those series where my need to complete what I start really paid off.

This one was a Netflix rental for me, and I recall looking to see how many more discs there were after the first one, and being disappointed there were so many.

By the end I was wishing there were another 45 episodes, if not more.

Twelve Kingdoms is definitely not a series for those who think they can judge an entire series by the first 3 episodes, much less the first one.

Man, I find people's definition of "boring" to be so radically different between people. For example, I know a lot of people find Legend of the Galactic Heroes to be boring, I mean almost the entire thing is talking about politics and war strategies, but damn if I didn't watch 10 episodes a day. Same for the Sanctuary manga, that entire manga was politics and I loved every panel of it. And I was absolutely enthralled by Mushi-shi (for a non-political series) but I know that's boring to some people too.
Then I found Excel Saga to be absolutely painfully boring to watch, it bored me near to tears! I guess I can never tell what will or won't be boring to me sometimes then, after all, Excel Saga is what someone recs when someone asks for the very opposite of boring.

Anyway, Amazon should be shipping Gasaraki to me tomorrow (it says that they're preparing to ship it) so I'll probably get it early next week (and stalk the mailman in the meantime). Not sure if I should maybe try and marathon it or watch it with a friend who wants to see it too, mostly because I've seen three other Ryosuke Takahashi series (Blue Gender, VOTOMs and Flag in that order) and damn are they hard to put down! For some reason I was expecting a thinpack, probably because all of the other TRSI series I have are thinpacks, but Erin's review makes it sound like it's a litebox. I'm really hoping that I will enjoy Gasaraki, it sounds like others here have but that's it's definitely not a show for everyone. And some friends with similar interests to me have enjoyed it too.

jenthehen wrote:

I'm sad that no one ever seems to share my love of Rosario.

I also liked the Rosario+Vampire anime....oh, wait...I only liked Moka and she was the sole reason I stuck through watching both seasons.

maaya wrote:

Julia-the-Great wrote:

I don't think it's unreasonable that Yoko would be treated coldly due to her hair color. Japanese culture is a lot more conservative, and if I recall correctly, having a hair color that is not "the norm" is looked down upon.

This is true. It is still true today (slowly changing), and even more so 10 - 20 years ago (novel from 1991, anime from 2002).
Japanese / asian people basically all have black hair, so having a different hair color means that you dyed it, which means that you are a rebel or a punk and in any case somebody who sticks out. It is not only true for hair color, but also for curls. Similar scenes can be seen in quite a few anime and mangas, and other Japanese TV series or movies (Sailor Moon f.ex.).

Schools actually forbid their students to dye their hair, make it curly or even wear it longer than shoulder length without a braid (Yoko has a braid when she is at school). Nowadays this is usally not true anymore for high schools, but up to middle school these rules still seem to be common. A child with naturally brown or curly hair afaik needs to get a medical certification.

In 12 Kingdoms it is known to her parents (of course) and to her teachers that it's Yoko's natural hair, but everybody else will assume otherwise, so her partents push her to dye it black because else it is "embarassing" and apparently the teachers at school find it hard to believe (brown hair is one thing, red hair is weird even for western standards). Not to mention Yoko's school seems particularily old-fashioned with seperated classes for boys and girls. It's all at the beginning of the very first episode and there Yoko is even opposed to the rebellish "gal"-type character, for whom she will be mistaken by other people because of her hair.

dtm42 wrote:

but the show's message is constantly thus: "if you can't do this and everything else then you're weak".

I think the message if anything is more like, "you have more potential than you might think. You can grow stronger. Believe in yourself". Much more of a typical anime message Wink

And also imho the show has quite a bit of social criticism, especially in the parts that take place in the real world and in how Yoko develops as a character.

In addition, there's a scene involving her sword (before she sorta tamed it) where it shows how she once tried to get her father to allow her to wear something that would allow her to run and compete with the boys. Her father was scandalized that she even suggested it and declared very strongly that there was no way he would allow his daughter to wear anything like that.

When you live in a very conformist culture, anything that sticks out tends to be hammered flat, usually by the family (so as not to be embarassed), or by society at large (when you're younger, often in the form of the school you attend). Yoko grew up in such a strict household that she repressed all of her own wants in order to try to make her parents (and everyone else) "like her".

In a way, it was like Yoko "paid" by being the "good girl" and received "approval" in exchange. I put those all in quotes because the whole thing was a facade -- it was all fake, and the monkey in the sword knew it and shoved it into her face at every turn until she was forced to confront it.

Finally, the anime added the extra two characters from her (our) world in order to externalize some things that would otherwise have been difficult to portray in an anime. I believe this is mentioned in one of the interviews included in the extras. I didn't think it was particularly necessary, but I can see why they decided to take that route.

I really liked The Twelve Kingdoms. I found it pretty interesting, even if I didn't entirely agree with some of the socio-political ideas it used: whether I agreed or not, they made me think about how the world (both of them, really) was structured. I wish the rest of it could've been animated as well.

dragon695 wrote:

If I recall correctly, I remember it somehow had something bad to say about people who had overthrown their mandate-selected dictator and had formed a democratic government. That was one aspect that especially miffed me.

Really? I don't remember that part. But if your memory is correct, then that just pisses me off even more; another reason to hate the show. And it does seem like the sort of horrible moralising that the show would bring up. Ugh. To spout off the virtues of your inherently (and extremely) flawed system is bad enough, but to then trash democracy, A.K.A. the best system humanity has come up with thus far . . .

(Even if democracy is openly abused today - and it is - at least there are some checks and balances. The system seen in Twelve Kingdoms has virtually none.)

inner moka isn't just a little cuter, she's hot.

anyway, I wish the anime had been more serious like the manga which I am a big fan of. They can still fix it, a season 3 with the student council arc would be wonderful. I am totally Ok with a little male bonding in a harem anime, it makes it more taboo.

dtm42 wrote:

dragon695 wrote:

If I recall correctly, I remember it somehow had something bad to say about people who had overthrown their mandate-selected dictator and had formed a democratic government. That was one aspect that especially miffed me.

Really? I don't remember that part. But if your memory is correct, then that just pisses me off even more; another reason to hate the show. And it does seem like the sort of horrible moralising that the show would bring up. Ugh. To spout off the virtues of your inherently (and extremely) flawed system is bad enough, but to then trash democracy, A.K.A. the best system humanity has come up with thus far . . .

(Even if democracy is openly abused today - and it is - at least there are some checks and balances. The system seen in Twelve Kingdoms has virtually none.)

To be fair it has been many moons since I have watched this series, so I may be misremembering some details, including the "overthow" part. I am certain that collectively the people of that kingdom had decided to go against the mandate of heaven. I think it happened midway through her "kingdom hopping" where either she or someone else is being told why one of the kingdoms is in such bad shape. It was pointed out that, oh, the people had rejected the anointed dictator and had opted to select their own. Then there was some sort of crummy hand-wringing that amounted to saying that they reaped what they sowed for having gone against heaven and that is why the land suffers and there is so much corruption. So while I don't think the word democracy was used overtly, the feeling I took away was strong enough all the same.

While I still have quite a bit goodwill towards the series for it having been one of the first high fantasy anime I ever watched, I have since seen it done (politics and all) in a far superior manner.

dtm42 wrote:

dragon695 wrote:

If I recall correctly, I remember it somehow had something bad to say about people who had overthrown their mandate-selected dictator and had formed a democratic government. That was one aspect that especially miffed me.

Really? I don't remember that part.

I really don't remember anything like that either. Erin just watched it so maybe she does?

dtm42 wrote:

Compared to the real world, the mandate of Heaven system has produced rulers no better than what we have, except these rulers are uniformly immortal dictators whose only opposition are the schemers in their own courts.

Even if democracy is openly abused today - and it is - at least there are some checks and balances. The system seen in Twelve Kingdoms has virtually none.

Huh? When the ruler turns bad, his Kirin gets sick and dies and then the ruler also dies. Just takes some time. The sickness is called "Shitsudo", "losing the way / morals / duty". Unless that's what you mean by "virtually none". oO

And I never got the impression that the system of the 12 Kingdoms was presented as being a good thing or better than others. It's just how that world works, without any judgment involved. Plenty of fantasy stories use this idea of "the chosen one", chosen by destiny etc. And the world of 12 Kingdoms is inspired by chinese mythology and history.

dragon695 wrote:

[While I still have quite a bit goodwill towards the series for it having been one of the first high fantasy anime I ever watched, I have since seen it done (politics and all) in a far superior manner.

Really? As anime? I'm all ears. I can't think of any better fantasy anime series, apart from Guardian of the Spirit and Beast Player Erin. That's like the Top 3. But I'd really like to see more.

HA! Perhaps I should take the advice of just picking up Twelve Kingdoms at episode fifteen. Those three discs I watched were such a chore to get through and I think I hate Yoko more than anime character I've ever watched in my entire. I just couldn't force myself to watch more.

It's not that I haven't given the show a chance. I rented it a few years ago and made it through about a dozen episodes before dropping it. I also borrow it about a year ago and still couldn't make it any further. I even tried a third time to no avail. Maybe just skipping over the really undesirable parts of the show will help.

With all the good things I hear, I want to like the show but so far that's been very difficult. Perhaps Twelve Kingdoms is just my Eva...lol

maaya wrote:

Really? As anime? I'm all ears. I can't think of any better fantasy anime series, apart from Guardian of the Spirit and Beast Player Erin. That's like the Top 3. But I'd really like to see more.

Let's consider the Anime on this list. Not all of them are proper Fantasy to be sure. But of those that are (this is important), I would say the following Anime are worth checking out (in rough order of quality, highest to lowest):

Vision of Escaflowne
Seirei no Moribito
Spice & Wolf I and II
Spirited Away
Children Who Chase Lost Voices from Deep Below
Samurai 7
Fantastic Children
Fullmetal Alchemist (not the second series)
Armed Librarians: The Book of Bantorra
Letter Bee I and II
Katanagatari
Otogi Zoshi
Kiki's Delivery Service
Beast Player Erin
Claymore
Utawarerumono
Laputa: Castle in the Sky

If a title is not on that list then I either:

A): haven't watched it
or
B): didn't like it
or
C): liked it but disagree with its label of a Fantasy. An example of this is Fate/Zero; I like it a lot but it's not (enough of) a Fantasy in my book. And Basilisk is more of an action-type show.

For other people's opinions, check out the Fantasy recommendation thread.

dtm42 wrote:

dragon695 wrote:

If I recall correctly, I remember it somehow had something bad to say about people who had overthrown their mandate-selected dictator and had formed a democratic government. That was one aspect that especially miffed me.

Really? I don't remember that part. But if your memory is correct, then that just pisses me off even more; another reason to hate the show.

Wow. Harsh. I think you're both thinking of the "three girls with a cause" arc. spoiler[Shoukei was the spoiled ex-princess whose father, the king of Hou, was executed when his draconian punishments for every little thing finally sparked a coup, led by Gekkei. The gist was that Gekkei couldn't understand why he hadn't been punished for defying Heaven, and felt it would wrong of him to assume power after killing the king. In the end, he accepts the responsibility for his actions and accepts the responsibility of governing the damaged kingdom. He works to minimize the decline and suffering of the kingdom during what would inevitably be a lengthy wait for a new kirin to be hatched and eventually choose a king. It wasn't a democratic government, as the structure of that world requires a king and kirin. It was a regency of sorts, a provisional government.] It's a more nuanced treatment than either of you recall. When I saw the series, I was impressed that they took a few minutes to address the issue instead of moving on with a glib "sucks for Hou".

give i seen both s1 & s2 of rosario vampire series yet i like it.

besides give i do want dvds of it really keep some people blam anime with service give keep on going til the end.

keep focus on watching it all besides there wise saying to say yea never judge an anime by it fanservice.

watch from start to finish then you got it.

I really liked Taiki's story arc, but I still don't understand why spoiler[it doesn't end. They all say that for some unknown reason Taiki disappeared and is back in Japan. They could at least closed the story when Taiki learned he actually chose the right King rather than leaving unconcluded. Does it at least end in the novels? ]

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