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I've only seen a couple of episodes, but spoiler[the thought of them all being suicidal people came up in me rather fast. The intro to the whole thing is practically a dead giveaway *I'm falling yet I'm not scared*, instead she seems to be falling into something she's afraid of?

The dreams of the others felt likewise, a dream of being in the water (Drowning), flying in the air (probably jumped out of a window), surrounded by sparkling light (inside something burning), long sleep (drugged)]

I've seen the entire series twice through and a couple episodes more than that (baecause I felt like I really needed to watch them again to catch everything again and get more of the story. spoiler[ I agree that the Haibane are the souls of dead children and that Reki comitted suiced, although I never thought of that about Rakka because she's the only one that the series follows first becoming Haibane. She does mention that she's falling but not afraid, but It doesn't follow any others through this experience. That could be just what it's like to become a haibane and they all could have felt that, but that is something to think about. Also, with the thought of them being the souls of dead children, I think it is just to judge them before going to Heaven or Hell, as mentioned before, but I think it's for a different reasons. Like we think, Haibane are the souls of dead children, as they are all very young or seem to be. This means that they haven't yet lived a complete life and haven't completely matured into what kind of person they are/will be. My theory has been that the Haibane stage, in the series, is a way for them to become the kind of person they would have been if they had lead a full life so it's easier to tell if they will go to Heaven or not. Trust me, if no one remembers, kids are normally a lot different from what they will be. I know. My home is a daycare (literally, my mom runs a home daycare).] I hope some one sees where I'm coming from.I've had this opinion since I watched it.
I ever saw this topic before, or else I would have brought it back and replied.

As for the whole Reki story are being overblown, I looked at the entire series spoiler[primarially Reki's through Rakka's eyes with her experinces as a young Haibane, and Kuu's "day of flight" giving us the "natural lifecycle of a Haibane".]

I do believe that old home is spoiler[part of the afterlife], though not a heaven or hell, spoiler[rather a waystation where the dead overcome thier leftover baggage in preperation for reincarnation. Old Home may indeed be specialized for suicides or children or a combination of both. Beyond the wall is the next life, just as Rakka realised when she saw Kuu's plate under the wall and heard children's voices, basically Kuu's as a reborn child on the other side. As for the sinbound, they are potential ghosts, who can't let go of thier pasts in order to go on. ]

But the Haibane (or us) have no idea what's reallybeyond the wall, anymore then we know for sure what's beyond our own spoiler[death/day of flight]. That is also part of the "real life" aspect Haibane Renmei.

All the Best,

Nani?

hizel wrote:

I've seen the entire series twice through and a couple episodes more than that (baecause I felt like I really needed to watch them again to catch everything again and get more of the story. spoiler[ I agree that the Haibane are the souls of dead children and that Reki comitted suiced, although I never thought of that about Rakka because she's the only one that the series follows first becoming Haibane. She does mention that she's falling but not afraid, but It doesn't follow any others through this experience. That could be just what it's like to become a haibane and they all could have felt that, but that is something to think about. Also, with the thought of them being the souls of dead children, I think it is just to judge them before going to Heaven or Hell, as mentioned before, but I think it's for a different reasons. Like we think, Haibane are the souls of dead children, as they are all very young or seem to be. This means that they haven't yet lived a complete life and haven't completely matured into what kind of person they are/will be. My theory has been that the Haibane stage, in the series, is a way for them to become the kind of person they would have been if they had lead a full life so it's easier to tell if they will go to Heaven or not. Trust me, if no one remembers, kids are normally a lot different from what they will be. I know. My home is a daycare (literally, my mom runs a home daycare).] I hope some one sees where I'm coming from.I've had this opinion since I watched it.
I ever saw this topic before, or else I would have brought it back and replied.

spoiler[It's not that alone, Rakka falling saying she's not scared with a cold heart and seeing something from her past she obviously wants to forget. And she did forget about it, completely, as she actually wants to go back there afterwards. I don't believe they actually lose all of their memories, just the memories that affected them in a negative way (They all seem to be so hopelessly naieve and oblivious of every bad aspect of life). In the series I saw, Rakka actually remembered that she sung a song as she passed a river, that seems very odd somehow.

In other words, they forgot because they wanted to forget. When someone commits suicide, I can only imagine him doing so forgetting everything about life itself, and in that way the intro makes alot of sense "It's fluffy and warm but I'm feeling anxious" and "What is this place?" meaning death itself being something alien -the dark void- -emptyness-.

And what is suicide really, essentially nothing more than running away from yourself by losing yourself into the void (which is exactly what the intro represents imo).

Where I'm watching, there's nothing about Rekki's suicide, but what I'm hearing now just fortifies my claim.]

I get what you mean, I understand more now how people could think spoiler[that Rakka had commited suicide]

I've really been wanting to watch the series again,but every time I've tries I've either been interrupted by my brother or remember that I was borrowing A Little Snow Fairy Sugar DVD from my friend.

Personally, I don't buy the generally accepted spoiler["Haibane are all suicides"] idea. Once you consider that spoiler[the vast majority of Haibane are young children,] it just doesn't add up.

spoiler[Rather, I only see Reki and Rakka as being suicides. Not the others. Hence the reason they're Sin-bound.]

A friend of mine and I discussed it in somewhat greater depth here. But seeing as we were only intending on covering the series' first episode, we held off from going any deeper into it until later on in the series.

Last edited by dormcat on Sun Oct 16, 2005 1:25 pm; edited 1 time in total

Nagisa wrote:

Personally, I don't buy the generally accepted spoiler["Haibane are all suicides"] idea. Once you consider that spoiler[the vast majority of Haibane are young children,] it just doesn't add up.

spoiler[Rather, I only see Reki and Rakka as being suicides. Not the others. Hence the reason they're Sin-bound.]

I used to be asking the same question. However, see if this article could answer it.

Is this the third or fourth time I've referred that article to others regarding Haibane Renmei?

I too am convinced that spoiler[not all of the haibane are suicides] There are the little children to consider. spoiler[Why would little children commit suicide? I believe they are the result of accidents, or foul play.]

Mohawk52 wrote:

I too am convinced that spoiler[not all of the haibane are suicides] There are the little children to consider. spoiler[Why would little children commit suicide? I believe they are the result of accidents, or foul play.]

I used to think that, too. Then a realisation came to me.

- abunai

abunai wrote:

Mohawk52 wrote:

I too am convinced that spoiler[not all of the haibane are suicides] There are the little children to consider. spoiler[Why would little children commit suicide? I believe they are the result of accidents, or foul play.]

I used to think that, too. Then a realisation came to me.

- abunai

Well so much for that theory then. But I've yet to see Vol. 3 as of this posting so it's not surprising I know so little of it.

Also, consider that the for the Haibane population is presumably from spoiler[our entire world], even putting Abunai's convinceing arguement aside, spoiler[that many child suicides is not impossible, and is in fact, kinda low.]

All the Best,

Nani?

Ah, but now having seen vol.3, I see a chink in abunai's theory.spoiler[Reki wasn't a very young child, like the other little children, at her birth. She appears to be at least 11, or 12-years-old then. The little ones can be no more than 5 at most. There must be some correlation as to why some are born at an older age and some at a younger, and I feel so far that it is what age they were at their original deaths. ] Wink

Mohawk52 wrote:

Ah, but now having seen vol.3, I see a chink in abunai's theory.spoiler[Reki wasn't a very young child, like the other little children, at her birth. She appears to be at least 11, or 12-years-old then. The little ones can be no more than 5 at most. There must be some correlation as to why some are born at an older age and some at a younger, and I feel so far that it is what age they were at their original deaths. ] Wink

Not so, you're using circular logic - using your conclusion to support your premise.

spoiler[Your argument is that some of the haibane are children, hence they must have suicided as children. To support this argument, you use the fact that Reki was older than a small child when she was "born" as a haibane. But, for that purpose, you can just as easily point to any haibane (such as Rakka) who is born as a haibane older than childhood. The age of rebirth is not what is significant about Reki.

What supports my argument is not Reki's apparent age at her time of "birth" as a haibane - but the indisputable and clearly observable fact that that age is younger than the age she had at her time of suicide. Therefore, by extension, haibane can be reborn at any age, irrespective of the age they died at - and your argument falls.

I'm tempted to see some sort of correlation between the age of rebirth and the effort required to redeem oneself. It is clear that there is some sort of time limit on a haibane's span, before becoming a failed haibane and entering the ranks of the touga. Could it be that the age at which one experiences rebirth is significant to the life-lessons that need to be learned? After all, Kuu was young, both at the start and at the end (though we don't know how long a "time limit" Kuu had left).

Proposal: A haibane's apparent age at the time of rebirth is what it is, because that haibane needs it to be that way. Some lessons are best learned as an adult, some things as a child.]

- abunai

abunai wrote:

Mohawk52 wrote:

Ah, but now having seen vol.3, I see a chink in abunai's theory.spoiler[Reki wasn't a very young child, like the other little children, at her birth. She appears to be at least 11, or 12-years-old then. The little ones can be no more than 5 at most. There must be some correlation as to why some are born at an older age and some at a younger, and I feel so far that it is what age they were at their original deaths. ] Wink

Not so, you're using circular logic - using your conclusion to support your premise.

spoiler[Your argument is that some of the haibane are children, hence they must have suicided as children.]

Argument is too strong a word here. I'm mearly trying to understand what's going on. Also no, that's not what I mean. spoiler[You're basing all your support on the allegation that all Haibane are suicides. I said I felt that the children were children at their original death. I said nothing about how they died. Your earlier discussion stated that Reki was a "child" I read that to mean "like the little children haibane". when I saw that Reki was in fact about 12-years-old at rebirth that is when I saw the "chink" in your theory]

Quote:

spoiler[What supports my argument is not Reki's apparent age at her time of "birth" as a haibane - but the indisputable and clearly observable fact that that age is younger than the age she had at her time of suicide. Therefore, by extension, haibane can be reborn at any age, irrespective of the age they died at - and your argument falls.]

I have not seen this yet so can not agree, nor disagree.

Quote:

spoiler[I'm tempted to see some sort of correlation between the age of rebirth and the effort required to redeem oneself. It is clear that there is some sort of time limit on a haibane's span, before becoming a failed haibane and entering the ranks of the touga. Could it be that the age at which one experiences rebirth is significant to the life-lessons that need to be learned? After all, Kuu was young, both at the start and at the end (though we don't know how long a "time limit" Kuu had left).

Proposal: A haibane's apparent age at the time of rebirth is what it is, because that haibane needs it to be that way. Some lessons are best learned as an adult, some things as a child.]

- abunai

Well it does seem that this time is not necessarily set in stone as spoiler[Reki was told by the "temple leader with the mask" that Haibane can be "cured" of being sinbound simply by finding a way to reconcile the cause and reason of that sin and gain forgiveness, like Rakka did in the well. Reki was sinbound at rebirth. Rakka became sinbound at a later time after her rebirth, for reasons we aren't told. Kuu might not have been that bound by whatever caused her to become worthy of being made a haibane and redeemed herself sooner than the rest and therefore was blessed with her "day of flight" sooner, therefore it's up to each haibane to sort out if possible. But the starting age might be dependant on the sins commited. ]
EDIT: spoiler[Having rewatched Vol. 3 again the Communicator does say that all Haibane have the same amount of time to redeem themselves before their day of flight. He hints to Reki that she knows what happens if redemption is not achieved, but she can be redeemed of her sin and become unbound. All she has to do is solve the riddle he also gave to Rakka. ]

***I would say this whole thing is just one big spoiler***
~and It wouldn't be sensible to tag the whole darn thing so it'd be difficult to keep reading, would it? So be warned.

In a nutshell, I'm asking 'what was it?'
When Rakka was born, since she did not have blackening feathers, she was not sinbound, right? Therefore, she must have become so within the story.
To figure it out, I wrote down a lot of stuff. For review, Rakka's change came when Kuu left, after which she became depressed and pushed everyone else around her away to become secluded in her own miserable world.
Was her sin in her thinking only about herself and not feeling for others? Was it that she became unhappy with the world she had been given? Did she stop her obligation as a Haibane somehow?

I noticed that her wings got worse (showing her sin) when she got more depressed over her situation, especially after she tells the shopkeeper life won't get any better.

When she gets over it:

Quote:

Rakka: "Forgive me. I wish there was something more I could do for you."..."But you were always by my side. You became a bird, just to go over the walls and let me know, that no matter how sad I felt, I was never alone."

When she buries the crow and has time to think, she shows compassion for others; in doing so, her sin is absolved. Would this mean that her sin had to do with her not caring for others?

Quote:

Reki: This town exists for the Haibane. The walls are there to protect us. A good Haibane lives here happily...

So a bad Haibane doesn't live there happily?

Quote:

Storekeeper: A Haibane should always be in high spirits with a smile on her face.

Rakka said when the Toga came to the well:

Quote:

Please help me.

Isn't that Reki said at the end when her sin was absolved? Would that mean that sin is perceived as not recognizing others around you nor accepting help?

Rakka said to the Communicator after being rescued from the well (and absolved of sin)

Quote:

Rakka: "I know now that I was never alone"..."This place, this town is too good to me. And everyone is so caring and treats me so kindly. I feel so guilty."

I would think that this would show that her sin was that she didn't appreciate the others' help or the world she was given...

Another tidbit, from the communicator to Reki:

Quote:

Only a little time remains for you to stay here as a Haibane. You need to prepare yourself mentally.

Would that be preparing herself mentally by acknowledging her blessings and the others around her, and being able to accept their help? That would mean that her sin was purely in her mind.
Rakka may not have done anything physically that could be called sin, so she too would be guilty of sin by her thinking the wrong way.
Is there a definite answer, or is left up to pure conjectures? If not a definite answer, then what do you think her sin was?

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