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Hey, Answerman! - ACTA Aghast-a


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Shenl742



Joined: 11 Feb 2010
Posts: 1524
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:40 pm Reply with quote
TitanXL wrote:
ss-hikaru wrote:
Are you referring to the anime (as in how Ash/Satoshi stays the same but the main girl character changes)? How was Hikari the most blatant (was it personality-wise)? I'm only familiar with the pokemon leads through the games and manga.


Er, yes, the anime. I say Hikari because her entire schtick was dressing up and doing Idolm@ster-esque performances and contests. Her outfits ranged from cheerleader, cheongsam, and maid outfits, to speak of the more blatant ones. Although, incidentally, she was also the most developed and experienced the most character growth out of all the females, so it wasn't as if she was just there to look pretty and nothing else.


I really don't see how it would be hypocritcal.

I mean...I think there's a bit of difference between having a character wear goofy outfits and...porn, right?
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LagannImpact



Joined: 03 Apr 2009
Posts: 574
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 3:48 am Reply with quote
ACTA is indeed a nightmare, but it's more like "next year's" nightmare. The treaty won't have force of law until like June 2013.

Look it up on wikipedia.
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Polycell



Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Posts: 4623
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 4:00 am Reply with quote
TitanXL wrote:
ss-hikaru wrote:
Are you referring to the anime (as in how Ash/Satoshi stays the same but the main girl character changes)? How was Hikari the most blatant (was it personality-wise)? I'm only familiar with the pokemon leads through the games and manga.


Er, yes, the anime. I say Hikari because her entire schtick was dressing up and doing Idolm@ster-esque performances and contests. Her outfits ranged from cheerleader, cheongsam, and maid outfits, to speak of the more blatant ones. Although, incidentally, she was also the most developed and experienced the most character growth out of all the females, so it wasn't as if she was just there to look pretty and nothing else.
Interesting. Not having followed the anime since the early days of the place-after-Johto arc(Sinnoh was the DS setting, wasn't it?), I always thought May/Haruka(Salt?) was the most blatant.
Shenl742 wrote:
I really don't see how it would be hypocritcal.

I mean...I think there's a bit of difference between having a character wear goofy outfits and...porn, right?
Playing your characters for fanservice is essentially an invitation for fanporn. If the company was really deadset against there being Pokemon porn(which, given the excruciating amounts available at easily-discovered locations, is questionable at best), then they'd tone down the fanservice(which I remember one person blaming his being a lolicon on(I believe the phrase "Damn you Nintendo!" was involved) - take that how you will).
LagannImpact wrote:
ACTA is indeed a nightmare, but it's more like "next year's" nightmare. The treaty won't have force of law until like June 2013.
Why should we wait until next year to work against it? The longer it's not strenuously opposed, the longer its proponents have to paint those for repeal as extremists who refuse to compromise. Never underestimate the power of the golden mean fallacy.
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vashna



Joined: 19 Feb 2010
Posts: 1313
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 4:39 am Reply with quote
I absolutely agree. The longer that people remain complacent about the ACTA treaty, the more time supporters have to suggest that individuals that are opposed to its provisions are members of some sort of lunatic fringe organization. I'm also seriously concerned about the TPP acts that were previously discussed. If I recall, Ken Akamatsu raised some serious questions about the chilling effect the TPP could have on derivative works.
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LagannImpact



Joined: 03 Apr 2009
Posts: 574
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 4:45 am Reply with quote
Polycell wrote:

LagannImpact wrote:
ACTA is indeed a nightmare, but it's more like "next year's" nightmare. The treaty won't have force of law until like June 2013.
Why should we wait until next year to work against it? The longer it's not strenuously opposed, the longer its proponents have to paint those for repeal as extremists who refuse to compromise. Never underestimate the power of the golden mean fallacy.


Oh, I'm not saying we should wait until next year to work against it, but I just wanted to let the people freaking out about this know we DO have some time here.
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TitanXL



Joined: 08 Jun 2010
Posts: 4036
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 5:32 am Reply with quote
Polycell wrote:
Interesting. Not having followed the anime since the early days of the place-after-Johto arc(Sinnoh was the DS setting, wasn't it?), I always thought May/Haruka(Salt?) was the most blatant.


Haruka was pretty tame from what I recall, only a couple scenes with her stand out, but to be fair I haven't watched Advanced Generation since it first aired, and honestly it's my least favorite series so I kind of forgot most of it. Kasumi was a lot more blatant than her given her self-compliments about how sexy she was all the time and the way she addressed and introduced herself (not to mention her outfit), so I thought they brought in Haruka to 'tone it down' honestly. Then they brought in Hikari and I said 'Well, maybe not"

Quote:
Playing your characters for fanservice is essentially an invitation for fanporn. If the company was really deadset against there being Pokemon porn(which, given the excruciating amounts available at easily-discovered locations, is questionable at best), then they'd tone down the fanservice(which I remember one person blaming his being a lolicon on(I believe the phrase "Damn you Nintendo!" was involved) - take that how you will)


That's basically what I meant. Shenl742 is right it's not porn, but if Nintendo really wanted a squeaky clean image of their characters so the kids don't think there's anything sexual about their IPs, they wouldn't have that stuff in the actual shows and send mixed signals. Probably the one that amused me the most was episode 44 of Rockman.EXE Stream (though Rockman is technically third party). First couple minutes of that episode alone is so hilariously surreal and over the top with the fan-service I thought I imagined that whole episode the following day. Basically there's too much evidence for Nintendo to deny that they acknowledge their characters are 'hot'.
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Shenl742



Joined: 11 Feb 2010
Posts: 1524
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 10:14 am Reply with quote
No, I don't buy it...

Oh dear god...I just realised something...

This whole argument is starting to sound like some kind of rape excuse analogy...

"If she didn't want me to draw hentai of her, she wouldn't have put on that maid outfit!"
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Polycell



Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Posts: 4623
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 3:50 pm Reply with quote
Shenl742 wrote:
No, I don't buy it...

Oh dear god...I just realised something...

This whole argument is starting to sound like some kind of rape excuse analogy...

"If she didn't want me to draw hentai of her, she wouldn't have put on that maid outfit!"
You claimed Nintendo was deadset against Pokeporn - the burden of proof lies on you. Given you instead don't even try to rebut the arguments we've given and only retort with a Godwin-esque analogy, I have no choice but to interpret this post as an admission of defeat.
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TitanXL



Joined: 08 Jun 2010
Posts: 4036
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 4:14 pm Reply with quote
Eh, I just don't see how you can have episodes like this and still claim they don't sexualize their own stuff. Unless repeatedly panning the camera up a girl in a bikini's body is suppose to be completely innocent and in no way pandering. Then there's those Pocket Monster's Girls series PVC figures aimed at the more 'dedicated' market.
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Shenl742



Joined: 11 Feb 2010
Posts: 1524
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 4:20 pm Reply with quote
Polycell wrote:
Shenl742 wrote:
No, I don't buy it...

Oh dear god...I just realised something...

This whole argument is starting to sound like some kind of rape excuse analogy...

"If she didn't want me to draw hentai of her, she wouldn't have put on that maid outfit!"
You claimed Nintendo was deadset against Pokeporn - the burden of proof lies on you. Given you instead don't even try to rebut the arguments we've given and only retort with a Godwin-esque analogy, I have no choice but to interpret this post as an admission of defeat.


What the hell are you talking about? Burden of proof? Huh?

I don't need to rebut my argument because I think it's still stands: Having characters in sexy outfits should NOT be interpreted as an Okay to make porn of them.


TitanXL wrote:
Eh, I just don't see how you can have episodes like this and still claim they don't sexualize their own stuff. Unless repeatedly panning the camera up a girl in a bikini's body is suppose to be completely innocent and in no way pandering. Then there's those Pocket Monster's Girls series PVC figures aimed at the more 'dedicated' market.


I personally wouldn't consider a girl in a modest looking bikini, or a girl in a short skirt "over-sexualized", especially when anime is rife with much, much worst examples.

I mean yes, chick in a bikini, but nothing about it seems TOO gratuitous. Her breasts don't look like they're about to burst from her top, she's not wearing a thong, and I highly doubt there will be any camera angles showing off her camel-toe.

That clip is about as provacative as a 60s-teen beach movie.


Last edited by Shenl742 on Sun Feb 12, 2012 4:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
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agila61



Joined: 22 Feb 2009
Posts: 3213
Location: NE Ohio
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 4:45 pm Reply with quote
Ryu Shoji wrote:
In regards to self publishing, those reasons are precisely why with my novel, I am planning on approaching literary agents, who will then approach publishers.

Also, it's odd that Poland has no anime...as MangaUK's main production is apparently done in Poland (who are actually the UK distributor of Naruto >>).

Quite. Indeed. with respect to ACTA, Poland even has some legit streaming anime, since a handful of Crunchyroll's licenses include all of Europe ~ Naruto, indeed, is one, so where the sentence in question refers to:
Quote:
for example I can watch Naruto only on the Internet, because in shops we don't have Naruto DVD, or on TV.

... the streaming access to Naruto is not threatened by ACTA,

However, even for streaming, the legit access seems to be extremely scanty: for example from the announcements in the last three seasons of Crunchyroll: in Winter 2012, 2 "3minute quickies"; in Fall 2011, 2 series for ad-streaming, with an additional series for premium members; and in Summer 2011, 1 "3minute quickie" and 1 free series in Summer2011, with two additional series for premium members.

So not only slim pickings, but looking like they are getting slimmer.
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Ted_the_bear2001



Joined: 01 Sep 2008
Posts: 37
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 5:05 pm Reply with quote
TitanXL wrote:
Eh, I just don't see how you can have episodes like this and still claim they don't sexualize their own stuff. Unless repeatedly panning the camera up a girl in a bikini's body is suppose to be completely innocent and in no way pandering. Then there's those Pocket Monster's Girls series PVC figures aimed at the more 'dedicated' market.


I had a discussion with a group of people on a stream a couple of weeks back, and based on what we talked about I can agree with you on some level. Originally I was wondering why so much of this stuff was being made, then I realized it was partly due to the character designs being done on the females. Now this isn't a rare occurrence, since One Piece and other children shows are also doing the same thing to their female characters too, but I wonder what are trying to market here? The companies want their shows to be clean, and yet still try to put obvious fanservice on their shows to sell. That video that you pointed out, and also that weird Pokemon fanservice-filled manga Viz put out years ago, just confuse me to pieces, but that is just all me.
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TitanXL



Joined: 08 Jun 2010
Posts: 4036
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 7:57 pm Reply with quote
Ted_the_bear2001 wrote:
Now this isn't a rare occurrence, since One Piece and other children shows are also doing the same thing to their female characters too, but I wonder what are trying to market here? The companies want their shows to be clean, and yet still try to put obvious fanservice on their shows to sell. That video that you pointed out, and also that weird Pokemon fanservice-filled manga Viz put out years ago, just confuse me to pieces, but that is just all me.


It's just the difference between what's acceptable for kids in the west and in Japan. Showing all that stuff is fine for kid's shows in Japan. Sex sells, no need to deny it, and it doesn't matter how old or young the characters or the consumer base is. It sells in any situation; from the young boys to dirty old men.

And I completely forgot about the Toshihiro Ono manga (I'm not too big into the manga aspect of the series) but yeah. It was drawn by a hentai artist, so you got stuff like this, and that's relatively tame compared to the full nudity and other stuff in that series. Man, that's some nostalgia right there for me.
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Shenl742



Joined: 11 Feb 2010
Posts: 1524
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:05 pm Reply with quote
TitanXL wrote:
Ted_the_bear2001 wrote:
Now this isn't a rare occurrence, since One Piece and other children shows are also doing the same thing to their female characters too, but I wonder what are trying to market here? The companies want their shows to be clean, and yet still try to put obvious fanservice on their shows to sell. That video that you pointed out, and also that weird Pokemon fanservice-filled manga Viz put out years ago, just confuse me to pieces, but that is just all me.


It's just the difference between what's acceptable for kids in the west and in Japan. Showing all that stuff is fine for kid's shows in Japan. Sex sells, no need to deny it, and it doesn't matter how old or young the characters or the consumer base is. It sells in any situation; from the young boys to dirty old men.

And I completely forgot about the Toshihiro Ono manga (I'm not too big into the manga aspect of the series) but yeah. It was drawn by a hentai artist, so you got stuff like this, and that's relatively tame compared to the full nudity and other stuff in that series. Man, that's some nostalgia right there for me.


But that series over 10 years old though. It's not impossible to think that Nintendo would change their stance and start thinking, "Okay, less visibile nipples and thongs up butt-cracks"
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vashna



Joined: 19 Feb 2010
Posts: 1313
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:48 am Reply with quote
Wait a moment, just so that I know what I'm following in this conversation… that Hiakri and Pochama figurine from Banpresto isn't a cast off design, is it?
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