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Actually, the first Lupin series bombed. But because of high ratings through syndication, it was given a second chance. Likewise, Yamato first tanked. (Likely because of the animation.) But because of the popularity of Star Wars, there was a demand for more home-grown products similar to that, and Yamato was readily embraced. And I was reading up on the Helen McCarthy book on Miyazaki, and it wasn't until he started selling merchandise that he was really able to make ends meet. And if you noticed, Mononoke and Sprited Away did well everytime he hinted he was "retiring". It sounds like Japanese audiences are even more fickle than us at times. :D

The first estimates are in!

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/weekend/2002/04.htm

According to Box Office Mojo, on its first weekend in limited release, Metropolis is expected to pull in $100 000 on just 9 screens, earning $11 111 per screen. For comparison purposes, the weekend's number one movie, Black Hawk Down, made $5 869 per screen, however, one needs to keep in mind that Black Hawk Down only made about half what Metropolis made per screen because in each city in which it is screening Metropolis is playing only on 1 screen (except for New York, where it's playing on 2 screens), whilst Black Hawk Down is playing on many, many screens in each city (3 101 screens, to be exact). Miramax's The Son's Room made $45 000 per screen, but only because it's playing on 1 screen. I think I should also point out that Princess Mononoke made $17 815 per screen in total (not just the opening weekend; source http://boxofficeguru.com/p2.htm ), so Metropolis has quite a way to go. But, unlike the Hollywood blockbusters, the opening weekend gross for art house films is pretty insignificant; Tristar is banking on good word of mouth to increase business.

Gatsu,I relize that both of these series initally crashed. In fact the original Gundam had the same problem, and it went on to be one of the most sucessful series of all time. What is important is how sucessful the series were after the first run. In the case of Starblazers it wasn't until several years after the first run did it become sucessful. I'm pretty sure that the same was true for lupin, since the second series didn't come out until 5 years later (although their were also copyright issues, that had to be settled with the LeBlanc estate).

None of Miyazaki's films bombed. Nausicaä just broke even, but IMO thats a good goal for a film that had a much higher budget than most anime films did at that time period. It did good enough for Tokuma to allow Miyazaki to establish his studio, and produce more films.

My Neighbor Totoro/Grave of the Fireflies, was the combo that caused them to lose money (partially because they were released as a double feature). Only after they sold Totoro dolls and Totoro was released on video was any money made. Starting with Kiki's Delivery Service Miyazaki became a force to be reckoned with. Kiki ended up being the highest grossing film that year in Japan.

Since then (with the exception of Takahata's My Neighbor's the Yamadas, which was a bomb; the bomb that made Tokuma seek a Hollywood Distributor in order to increase sales in their own country, and have the chance of making money abroad.) all of Ghibli's films have done really well at the box office in Japan. Mononoke and Sen are really just the continuation of the continually growing success of Ghibli's films, which now are among the most sucessful non-english films ever produced.

Of course your theory of Miyazaki's retirement makes a lot of sense based on how much better they did in relation to previous films. :)

Tenchi wrote:

I think I should also point out that Princess Mononoke made $17 815 per screen in total (not just the opening weekend; source http://boxofficeguru.com/p2.htm ), so Metropolis has quite a way to go.

I should have added "quite a way to go to be considered a success", not quite a way to go to beat Mononoke, which won't be difficult if it made $11 111 per screen on the first weekend. I admit I have absolutely no idea how much B.O. per screen Metropolis needs for Tristar to consider it a success (and possibly expand it further than the theatres already announced), but I think it's off to a good start.

Gatsu wrote: "Anyway, I have a feeling Tezuka was more popular here, because at least he didn't have to make hentai to survive in the U.S., because no one wanted to adapt his manga into anime until he died!"

More popular in the U.S. than in Japan? Am I reading this line wrong because it is too laughable to believe! (I missed seeing it the first time.) The whole Tezuka style was either hated or ignored in mainstream Disney-America for years untill we actually reached the 90's. So where's the impact on our culture? (In fact, a lot of people STILL hate his style.)

Again Gatsu Wrote: "...he didn't have to make hentai to survive in the U.S."

Your kidding me with that line aren't you? Tezuka was a genuis who created a huge variety of characters, stories and films.

Tezuka was a "God of manga" in Japan. When he died in Japan the whole country acknowledged him and mourned. Over here there was barely any mention in the news media!

"Your kidding me with that line aren't you? Tezuka was a genuis who created a huge variety of characters, stories and films."

Yes, but he often had to do it with his own money, because no one was watching his anime. His Mushi Studios went bankrupt in the early 70's, and he was dabbling in adult films, just to make ends meet.

"Tezuka was a "God of manga" in Japan. When he died in Japan the whole country acknowledged him and mourned."

Notice that's when he died, not when he lived. I mean a Black Jack anime should've happened when the manga came out, not 40 years after!

Last edited by Animan on Tue Jan 29, 2002 7:54 pm; edited 1 time in total

Gatsu wrote: "Yes, but he often had to do it with his own money, because no one was watching his anime. His Mushi Studios went bankrupt in the early 70's, and he was dabbling in adult films, just to make ends meet."

And Gatsu also wrote:

"...he didn't have to make hentai to survive in the U.S."

Well let us see all the 'Hentai' or adult films he did (as you claim) starting from 1973--directly after his Mushi Productions studio declared bankruptcy. (And thanks to JUDY'S WORLD Website and Animerica archives for the information listed here. And I certainly wouldn't say he was only just "dabbling" in films after 1973):

Banderbook (a comedy) TV special--2 hr. (1977)
Space Firebird 2772 (or Phoenix 2772) (1980) (A mystical & Science Fiction film)

Short animated films (these films are mostly cartoonish--'Jumping' has a quick scene of nudity in it, but remember that we are talking Japan here) :

Jumping(10 mins) (1984)
Broken Down Film (1985)
Self Portrait (1988)

The Unico trilogy of films (child-oriented films)
Unico (1981)
Unico: To The Magic Island (1983)
Unico: Cloud And White Feather (1989)

More series of Phoenix films
(These films are adaptions of Tezuka's Phoenix books by Rintaro. These titles can be considered as Adult-mystical-dramas but NOT Hentai.)

Phoenix Karma Chapter (1986)
Phoenix Yamato Chapter (1986)
Pheonix Space Chapter (1987)

Legend of the Forest 30 min (1987 ecological-type animated film)

Tezuka died in 1989.

See any Hentai there? Or, Gatsu, are you thinking about the adult film he did titled "Cleopatra", a film released in 1970...three years BEFORE his film studio went bankrupt. You were saying he was making Hentai or adult films AFTER his studio's bankruptcy in 1973. Along with films that he produced and directed himself (all of them NOT Hentai), Tezuka was also for years continuing to do multiple manga series for magazines and newspapers to make ends meet--and doing quite well.

(BTW, Im not so sure the word 'Hentai' even existed in 1970, and before 'Cleopatra' he did a series titled 'Ribbon No Kishi' or 'Princess Knight'. A series many people considered to be the first Shojo at a time that category did not exist).

Gatsu wrote: "I have a feeling Tezuka was more popular here, because at least he didn't have to make hentai to survive in the U.S., because no one wanted to adapt his manga into anime until he died!"

Well he was partially (and finally) brought to National attention here only because of Disney's idiotic 'Lion King' controversy. Some celebratory moment of popularity THAT incident turned out to be!

I wrote: "Tezuka was a 'God of manga' in Japan. When he died in Japan the whole country acknowledged him and mourned."

Gatsu wrote: "Notice that's when he died, not when he lived. I mean a Black Jack anime should've happened when the manga came out, not 40 years after!"

Well, I've 'noticed' that Tezuka either won or received a number of notable awards...enough that one might think that he was most certainly appreciated in the 80's by his people: he received Shogakukan Manga Award in 1984 for the story "A Sunny-Spot Tree". He was given the 1985 Hiroshima International Grand Prix for the animated short "Broken-Down Film". The Kodansha Manga Award was given to him for his manga "Adolf Ni Tsugu". The 1987 Kinema Jumpo Favorite Reader Award was given to him for his autobiographical essay "I saw, I Shot, I Showed". And in 1988 he was also noted for being the first Manga Artist to receive the Asahi Award.

And I listed these awards without including the awards he got in the '70's (the ones after his bankruptcy in '73, of course).

As for his comics being adapted while alive: A new Astroboy series was done in color from 1983 to 1985. Rintaro did the 'Pheonix tales' series from 1986 to '87. I seem to recall that the UNICO films (1981, 1983, and 1989) are an adaption of one of his manga series.

According to an article by Tezuka Production president Takayuki Matsutani:

"Tezuka was single-handedly responsible for creating 150,000 manga pages and 600 manga titles."

How could he possibly keep track of ANY of the projects he did--film adaptions and original film works--while he continued to do multiple series for various magazines? Maybe he just didn't allow too many of his creations to be adapted by others while he was alive because he didn't have time to keep track of everything he was doing: remember that he WAS producing and adapting some of his manga series to film while writing and drawing NEW manga serials for publication!

But was Tezuka still REALLY popular during those years? Let Frederick Schodt tell us with this paragraph from his "Remembering Osamu Tezuka" tribute article (from Animerica 1995 edition volume 3 issue 6):

"But he [Tezuka] often took on far more work than he actually should have, and often neglected deadlines until the last minute. He needed editors to hound him to get his work done--it was an essential part of his daily routine. Once, when visiting San Francisco, he began enjoying himself too much, and an editor had to be flown out from Japan to apply pressure on him. Protocol required the editor to use great tact with the older, famous artist/writer, and the editor had to be very circumspect. Only at the very last minute was he able to corral Tezuka, force him to retreat to his hotel room, and make him complete the minimum number of pages required to save the magazine from disaster."

Apparently no editor wanted to face the wrath of Tezuka's audience for missing the publication of any of the chapters of the serials he was producing.

Doesn't sound to me like Japan lost interested in his many variety of manga or his variety of films just before he died.

The final numbers for last weekend are in, but Metropolis didn't make quite as much as was previously estimated (see my post above).

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/weekend/2002/04.htm

Playing on just 9 screens, Metropolis was number 40 over the weekend, earning $84 660, or $9 407 per screen. (The estimates posted on Sunday were $100 000, or $11 111 per screen.)

The Answerman bows down before Animan's amazingly deep well of knowledge on Tezuka. I am seriously impressed.
-Zac

Last edited by Animan on Wed Jan 30, 2002 3:10 pm; edited 1 time in total

I was one of the lucky ones to actually get a chance to see Osamu Tazuka in person at a 1980 San Diego Convention, where he brought a few of his films to screen for the audience. The films that were shown: 'Banderbook' (a comedy--it was really sort of like a Mad Magazine-type animated film in the Tezuka comic style and universe.), parts of 'Cleopatra' were shown, and he also screened (twice as I recall) 'Phoenix 2772'.

Phoenix 2772 really impressed me because it was the first time I had ever seen an ANIMATED science fiction film FEATURE (I had never seen the 1965 'Pinoccio in outerspace' or the Yamato/Galaxy Express films.). For that time (back in 1980) I thought the animation and style of the movie was awsome.

It is no exaggeration to say that Tezuka was a giant and a genius in comics and animation (like Jack Kirby was in American comics, or like Stravinsky was in modern classical music, or like Disney was in animation.)

BTW--It might interest you to know that not only was Monkey Punch also at the San Diego convention in 1980, but a Disney artist recently told me that Hayao Miyazaki was there too, although I'm not sure there is anyone who can confirm it. (Later Miyazaki did come to california again to live in Los Angeles for a short while to work on 'Little Nemo'.) Not too many people at the convention back then even knew who he was. I certainly didn't know about Hayao Miyazaki back then...afterall, he was just starting out with his first movie. However, I do vividly recall seeing the convention exibit they had on display: the actual pencil storyboards from Miyazaki's first film 'Castle of Cagliostro'. I also saw the film 'Castle of Cagliostro' for the first time on video at the convention. (Across the street from the convention was a hotel--the convention committee members fed the video player line through the Hotel's cable line and into a designated room for video viewing.)

The video copy of 'Castle of Cagliostro' was subtitled! Remember that this was 1980 and the movie had just come out in 1979. I recall reading somewhere (I may be wrong) that Frederik Schodt may have been the man who subtitled the 'Phoenix 2772' film that was screened at the 1980 San Diego Convention. I have been wondering if he had a hand in the translations for the 'Castle of Cagliostro' sub back then.

--the Animan

You know what, I think everyone is taking this a little bit too far. We're missing the huge point here. An anime movie has made it to theaters, in it's self, thats a huge accomplishment for us fans. Yea, it sux that a lot of times, they're dubbed poorly or they even choose some dumb tittles to spend all that money on releasing, but you gotta remember, these movies are paving the way for better ones to be released for us!

NOTE TO SONY:

PLEASE BRING THIS MOVIE TO MY TOWN. I WANT TO SEE IT. OH SO BADLY.

Go Nagai has a cameo in it, too. Boo-yaa!

Although his character had better have fangs, breasts, and cartoonishly large sideburns, though.

LordByronius wrote:

NOTE TO SONY:

PLEASE BRING THIS MOVIE TO MY TOWN. I WANT TO SEE IT. OH SO BADLY.

NOTE TO LORD BYRONIOUS:

PLEASE TELL US WHICH CITY YOU LIVE IN FIRST, IN CASE SOMEONE FROM SONY/COLUMBIA/TRISTAR IS READING THIS.

But seriously, is your city a major stop on the art house circuit? If they played Mononoke in your city, the Magic 8 Ball says there's a reasonably good chance Metropoils will play there at some point. I'm not expecting it to go wide though; maybe 30-40 cities instead of the 12 it was playing in last weekend.

Byron: Little known facts. Go Nagai also has a cameo in his own anime, Hanappa Bazooka. (Not to mention they show him in the mini-documentary after the anime.) Also, he has a cameo in the Toxic Avenger 2.

[/quote]
But seriously, is your city a major stop on the art house circuit? If they played Mononoke in your city, the Magic 8 Ball says there's a reasonably good chance Metropoils will play there at some point. I'm not expecting it to go wide though; maybe 30-40 cities instead of the 12 it was playing in last weekend.
[/quote]

Well... no, not really. Zac can vouch for me on this. We *did* get Mononoke, albeit for only a week or so.

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