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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 7912
Location: Anime News Network Technodrome
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Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 6:14 pm
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ikillchicken wrote: |
Zac wrote: | Was the point "I don't understand that the scores aren't relative to eachother but rather a reflection of the specific opinion about this show"? Because a bunch of you are also making that point. |
No...I honestly don't understand what you're saying here.
I understand that scores from different reviewers can't exactly be compared because obviously the scale may be different. But how is it that a reviewer can give two shows virtually identical grades and that doesn't imply they're of roughly equal quality? I mean, I'm not really interested in dragging up the whole Fate/Zero thing every time Carlo posts a negative review here. I don't really get how you can say it's not a valid comparison though. |
Roger Ebert explained it pretty simply.
A three-star kids' movie is not the same as a three-star action movie.
The score reflects what the critic thinks about that particular project, not "this is a C- and I feel the same way about it that I do about this other thing I also gave a C-". Fate/Zero did not get a C- in relation to Brave10.
For instance, I might give a particularly charming family film like Summer Wars an A. Does that mean I think it shares qualities with or can be compared to, say, Utena, which I also gave an A? No. The scores are not related to eachother. They're a distilled expression of what I felt about the film, that's it.
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dtm42
Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 14084
Location: currently stalking my waifu
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Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 7:05 pm
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I don't want to get into the "what are reviews and what are grades" debate again, but I always thought that reviews were for the reader, not for the writer. As in, you're helping us decide if the title in question is worth our time and money, or not as the case may be. And how does that work if we cannot take two identical grades from the same reviewer and make a reasonable assumption that the two works are of similar quality?
Zac wrote: | A three-star kids' movie is not the same as a three-star action movie. |
ANN rates technical merits directly whereas Ebert does not. The grades given to technical merits should be as objective as they come. No matter what you think of comparing the overall rating between two series, it should be quite simple to compare their music or animation. Heck, even the story as well; no matter how weak Carlo thought Fate/Zero's story was, Brave10's story grade should have been lower because it hardly has one.
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Surrender Artist
Joined: 01 May 2011
Posts: 3264
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 7:14 pm
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He also wrote more than eight hundred words about both. If you ignores the words in favor of angrily fixating on five or six letters, perhaps with associated plus or minus signs, you really have yourself to blame for misunderstanding. Letter grades, or stars, or the insanity that is the percentage score convey so little information that I don't think that any reasonable person could think that they're grounds for making a choice about what to watch.
They're the least relevant, least informative part of any review, but they to get the lion's share of the attention.
dtm42 wrote: | Heck, even the story as well; no matter how weak Carlo thought Fate/Zero's story was, Brave10's story grade should have been lower because it hardly has one. |
Human being's aren't going to be consistent in translating the morass of their subjective reactions into a some simple symbol that has the illusion of precision. Just what a given grade means in one context versus another could easily vary, despite appearing the same. One series that has a story that's poorly told or just a bad story could feel on par with a story that barely exists and be represented with the same grade despite that grade reflecting in each case a very different reaction.
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dtm42
Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 14084
Location: currently stalking my waifu
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Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 7:26 pm
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Surrender Artist wrote: | He also wrote more than eight hundred words about both. If you ignores the words in favor of angrily fixating on five or six letters, perhaps with associated plus or minus signs, you really have yourself to blame for misunderstanding. |
If. If I ignore the words. Which I have not.
The scores for Fate/Zero are talked about because A: they do not match the written review and B: they compare similarly (or even poorly) to clearly inferior series that Carlo didn't like. This Brave10 review is a perfect example, so it is not surprising that someone brought up the disconnect again.
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ikillchicken
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 7272
Location: Vancouver
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Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 8:49 pm
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Zac wrote: | For instance, I might give a particularly charming family film like Summer Wars an A. Does that mean I think it shares qualities with or can be compared to, say, Utena, which I also gave an A? No. The scores are not related to eachother. They're a distilled expression of what I felt about the film, that's it. |
Okay. If I understand you correctly, it's not a universal standard. What earns a show of one kind an A is different from what earns a show of another kind an A. Hence, both getting the same grade doesn't mean they're equal. That makes sense.
If the grade a show receives is not based on a universal scale though, what kind of standard is it based on? Is there a different scale for different genres? (ie. Action vs Family) I mean, a score might not be related to most other scores but it has to be related to something doesn't it? Otherwise, what would that grade even mean?
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gilnokoibito
Joined: 17 Aug 2010
Posts: 109
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Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 11:21 pm
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I won't get too much into the ratings debate...I do agree that Brave10 does lack a little in the story and character development parts...however...I'm still holding out...for one thing the later episodes are getting a bit better...episode 9 in particular...in episode 9...stuff goes down...just saying... (<--cause that was literally my face through most of that ep.)
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MaxSouth
Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 1363
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Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 10:35 am
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Mr Sinister wrote: |
Carlo's grades for Fate/Zero:
Overall (sub) : C
Story : D
Animation : B+
Art : C+
Music : C
Carlo's grades for Brave10:
Overall (sub) : C
Story : D
Animation : B-
Art : B
Music : C+
Awesome! This must be at LEAST as good as Fate/Zero! Slight downgrade in animation, but better artwork and music! Ima get right on with streaming this now. |
Breathtaking.
Both shows are action fantasy, so the idea that these are two different genres hence the scales are different, is not really believable.
And even if it would be different genres, then there has to be way to differentiate it the ranks reviewers give. Otherwise it make whole rating system quite useless: viewer sees that Fate/Zero is equally bad show as Brave10, and nothing more.
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