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The Mike Toole Show - The Con That Failed


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Surrender Artist



Joined: 01 May 2011
Posts: 3264
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:54 am Reply with quote
Petrea Mitchell wrote:
Mike Toole wrote:
And it's not just a Kipling reference, it's also a Metallica one!


Drat. I suck at mainstream pop culture yet again. Smile


And here I thought that he was just expressing his disillusionment with conunism!


Last edited by Surrender Artist on Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Shingen



Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 13
Location: Probably in Canada. Silly canuck ^^;
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:40 pm Reply with quote
Mike Toole wrote:
Thanks for providing the description on the errant Jason cosplayer with the real live hatchet, though, as that makes the mental image all the funnier.


Dude, I didn't want to leave the mistaken impression that it was some errant Soulcalibur or Final Fantasy cosplayer who brought a battleaxe to our event.

In the entire history of Chibicon, we've never had a problem with any Soulcalibur or Final Fantasy cosplayers, just Friday the 13th cosplayers.
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superdry



Joined: 07 Jan 2012
Posts: 1309
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:01 pm Reply with quote
Chagen46 wrote:
Would Hentai doujins even be sold at a Western con?


Yup. There is THE one main doujin dealer at the majority of cons and two-three smaller operations here and there.

Con-goers are carded to make sure they are 18+ to buy/flip through the material.

Quote:

Like, translated ones from Japan or ones Western artists actually made themselves?


If anyone sells their own little artbook or comic at artist alley, that's technically doujin material.

Rarely is translated doujin from Japan sold - it's all original, untranslated stuff you can by at Comiket, for example.
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Elliace



Joined: 13 Mar 2012
Posts: 3
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 3:23 pm Reply with quote
This article has been out for 2 days now, after reading it a few times, talking with some people and taking the time to compose my thoughts and it all, I feel like I should hopefully clear a few things up.

Speaking as a Current senior member of Chibi-con, having been with the convention for 7 years now.

Quote:
1.) Sorry for pulling out the "jump to conclusions" mat on the your event's lifecycle. When you've got new dates, not only will I post a retraction, I'll plug the shit out of Chibicon in my column space.


Thank you, we appreciate this very much.

Quote:
2.) That said, I think my conclusion was fairly reasonable, since I was pointed to a website for a con that last occurred in 2010 in March of 2012, by a former senior staffer. Looking at the site, it still seems clear that Chibicon is moribund. If you want to spread the "still alive" meme, job 1 has got to be updating that site, and plaintext won't cut it!


Granted our site has not been updated since 2010 with no information on the future status of our convention, there's no real excuse for it, but we are however in the process of doing a complete overhaul of our site in preparation for this years convention.


Quote:
3.) Other than my mistaken "the con has SLIPPED BENEATH THE WAVES LIKE DEAD CTHULHU" assertion, uh, that plaintext actually seems to corroborate everything Ms Ives told me about the con. Thanks for providing the description on the errant Jason cosplayer with the real live hatchet, though, as that makes the mental image all the funnier.


Not 100% sure how this is an entirely different point then the last one, the plain text reply was written only a few hours after we were made aware of the article, it probably could have used more polish and frills. Also Cthulhu can never truly be killed and he may slip beneath the waves, but he WILL RISE AGAIN!

Quote:
okay, do I really have to make a joke about "we couldn't find a venue large enough for Chibi-con" Very Happy


I thought it was a good joke.

Last thing I need to clear up, for the record, our "former senior staff member" that you spoke with, the last convention of ours she was involved in was the end of 2008, 2 years before our convention "Died". Based off of what you wrote in your article, the information you were given by her is false. We don't have issue with you or your article, we just want to clarify the information.

I am more then happy to answer any questions you have concerning us or our convention, so don't hesitate to ask.

Thank you for your time.
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whoisfriend



Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Posts: 369
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:03 pm Reply with quote
Elliace wrote:
This article has been out for 2 days now, after reading it a few times, talking with some people and taking the time to compose my thoughts and it all, I feel like I should hopefully clear a few things up.

Speaking as a Current senior member of Chibi-con, having been with the convention for 7 years now.

Quote:
1.) Sorry for pulling out the "jump to conclusions" mat on the your event's lifecycle. When you've got new dates, not only will I post a retraction, I'll plug the shit out of Chibicon in my column space.


Thank you, we appreciate this very much.

Quote:
2.) That said, I think my conclusion was fairly reasonable, since I was pointed to a website for a con that last occurred in 2010 in March of 2012, by a former senior staffer. Looking at the site, it still seems clear that Chibicon is moribund. If you want to spread the "still alive" meme, job 1 has got to be updating that site, and plaintext won't cut it!


Granted our site has not been updated since 2010 with no information on the future status of our convention, there's no real excuse for it, but we are however in the process of doing a complete overhaul of our site in preparation for this years convention.


Quote:
3.) Other than my mistaken "the con has SLIPPED BENEATH THE WAVES LIKE DEAD CTHULHU" assertion, uh, that plaintext actually seems to corroborate everything Ms Ives told me about the con. Thanks for providing the description on the errant Jason cosplayer with the real live hatchet, though, as that makes the mental image all the funnier.


Not 100% sure how this is an entirely different point then the last one, the plain text reply was written only a few hours after we were made aware of the article, it probably could have used more polish and frills. Also Cthulhu can never truly be killed and he may slip beneath the waves, but he WILL RISE AGAIN!

Quote:
okay, do I really have to make a joke about "we couldn't find a venue large enough for Chibi-con" Very Happy


I thought it was a good joke.

Last thing I need to clear up, for the record, our "former senior staff member" that you spoke with, the last convention of ours she was involved in was the end of 2008, 2 years before our convention "Died". Based off of what you wrote in your article, the information you were given by her is false. We don't have issue with you or your article, we just want to clarify the information.

I am more then happy to answer any questions you have concerning us or our convention, so don't hesitate to ask.

Thank you for your time.


I'm wondering what exactly was false in the article, since you keep throwing around accusations without proof. Mike has already said both the source he received and the official .txt on the website corroborate. If there's something I'm neglecting, please point it out. Plus, this is an article and Mike has already said he made assertions based on the information he received.

Also, I'm not sure why you have quotation marks around "former senior staff member". From what I see, "Ms. Ives" (as we're all calling her) was a staff member from 2004 to 2008. I think 5 years of an 8 year convention is enough to qualify someone as a "senior staff member."
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Elliace



Joined: 13 Mar 2012
Posts: 3
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 12:48 am Reply with quote
Quote:
I'm wondering what exactly was false in the article, since you keep throwing around accusations without proof. Mike has already said both the source he received and the official .txt on the website corroborate. If there's something I'm neglecting, please point it out. Plus, this is an article and Mike has already said he made assertions based on the information he received.


What was false in the article was; the "cosplayer with the real life battleaxe" was the Jason cosplayer that brought a hatchet, not a battleaxe, and this situation was dealt with when it arose, the hotel didn't just add on a 900$ security deposit, they told us we would have to pay 900$ extra for a weekend security guard (which they told us about after the contracts had be negotiated and signed), we had the 900$ to pay it, not because we didn't want the security, because they informed us months after the contracts had been signed, The original con founder still runs the con to this day the person Ms. Ives is referring to is the former club president, who was against doing the convention in the first place, however the man in question did come back and try and start his own convention with our name and our convention was not done in by either staff turnover or the raise of Ai-kon, as I said in my last post, we're not done in, we took a year off.

You make a fair point that I have no proof, the same could be said for Ms. Ives. (I'm not 100% sure how I can give you the proof, but let me know how I can do that and I'll be happy to oblige.)

Quote:
Also, I'm not sure why you have quotation marks around "former senior staff member". From what I see, "Ms. Ives" (as we're all calling her) was a staff member from 2004 to 2008. I think 5 years of an 8 year convention is enough to qualify someone as a "senior staff member."


I apologize, the confusion on this one was my fault, I used the turn "Former senior staff member" because I was avoiding saying Ms. Ives out of professionalism, I don't like to use peoples real names while on the internet for various privacy reasons.

If there are any other questions I would be happy to answer them.
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whoisfriend



Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Posts: 369
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 1:19 am Reply with quote
Elliace wrote:

What was false in the article was; the "cosplayer with the real life battleaxe" was the Jason cosplayer that brought a hatchet, not a battleaxe, and this situation was dealt with when it arose, the hotel didn't just add on a 900$ security deposit, they told us we would have to pay 900$ extra for a weekend security guard (which they told us about after the contracts had be negotiated and signed), we had the 900$ to pay it, not because we didn't want the security, because they informed us months after the contracts had been signed, The original con founder still runs the con to this day the person Ms. Ives is referring to is the former club president, who was against doing the convention in the first place, however the man in question did come back and try and start his own convention with our name and our convention was not done in by either staff turnover or the raise of Ai-kon, as I said in my last post, we're not done in, we took a year off.


So in short, your problems are:

Battleaxe instead of Hachet
Security Deposit instead of Security Guards
Unable to pay $900 instead of Unwilling to pay
Former Con President instead of Former Club president.
The reason the con shut down for a year.

It basically runs down to semantics, and these are all things that very well could have been cut down or edited from the e-mail to the article. Personally, I don't see how it changes the story. A guy brought a weapon, the hotel charged 900, the con moved as a result, and someone from the club's/con's past came to make a duplicate convention.
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Elliace



Joined: 13 Mar 2012
Posts: 3
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 2:32 am Reply with quote
Quote:
It basically runs down to semantics, and these are all things that very well could have been cut down or edited from the e-mail to the article. Personally, I don't see how it changes the story. A guy brought a weapon, the hotel charged 900, the con moved as a result, and someone from the club's/con's past came to make a duplicate convention.


Yes, it does all come down to semantics, however semantics and context are very important, for example; the difference between a battleaxe and a hatchet is quite substantial, while yes, they are both weapons, the battleaxe is much larger and a more terrifying thing.

It seems you have missed the point of my post, it was not to call anyone out, not to call someone a liar, as I said in my first post, it is to clarify, to correct the facts and to make sure people are properly informed.

As you said, these are all details that may have been cut down or edited out of the e-mail source material (if that's true, I would very much like to see the e-mail to verify), in which case you seem to imply that the mistake was made by Mr. Toole, that he was the one that changed the facts to spice up his article, I personally don't believe this to be true.

On a side note, after having re-read your previous post, I noticed something, neither myself nor Mr. Toole mentioned anything about how long Ms. Ives has been working at Chibi-con.
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whoisfriend



Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Posts: 369
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:34 am Reply with quote
Elliace wrote:

On a side note, after having re-read your previous post, I noticed something, neither myself nor Mr. Toole mentioned anything about how long Ms. Ives has been working at Chibi-con.


I think I remember seeing it in the original message from Chibicon, though a lot of it has seem to have been redacted now. Sorry if I got my facts wrong.
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Shingen



Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 13
Location: Probably in Canada. Silly canuck ^^;
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 12:35 pm Reply with quote
who_is_friend wrote:
a lot of it has seem to have been redacted now.


Allow me to clarify intent so we're all crystal clear on this here.

Parts of it were edited and redacted due to concerns raised involving certain people who were originally mentioned by name in the text file. As the file could be quoted, or the intent of the message could be misunderstood or misinterpreted, I felt it best if I remove information referring to specific people who I don't have either implied or outright stated permission to mention by name.

The reason for the text file is to offer an explanation. It is not intended as an attack on Mike Toole, or whatever Ms. Ives told him, or anything. Just a clarification on the facts as I see them, because again, word choice can greatly affect meaning. And certain details were omitted, which can cause the average reader to misinterpret things.

If all I said is "there was a guy at Chibicon once with a hatchet", one could misinterpret it as "he was there the whole weekend and nobody did anything about it". However, with the added context of "We asked him not to bring it in when we saw him outside" and "We took his pass and told him to leave when he did bring it inside" adds the detail that we tried to get rid of him. It makes things clear, and if we're going to talk about history, more details is better for all concerned.
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HeeroTX



Joined: 15 Jul 2002
Posts: 2046
Location: Austin, TX
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 2:35 pm Reply with quote
Elliace wrote:
Yes, it does all come down to semantics, however semantics and context are very important, for example; the difference between a battleaxe and a hatchet is quite substantial, while yes, they are both weapons, the battleaxe is much larger and a more terrifying thing.

No offense, but the difference between a guy carrying a battleaxe vs. a hatchet is like the difference between a guy carrying a sword vs. a bowie knife. Sure, the "ancient/fantasy weapon" is bigger and potentially more threatening, but OTOH, it's also more obviously a costume piece vs. a smaller weapon that looks more like "a serial killer just walked in". If anything, a hatchet (or knife) is WORSE than the "weapon" because the latter is more clearly for appearance rather than function.
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Elli21486



Joined: 21 Jul 2010
Posts: 2
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 5:19 pm Reply with quote
rootsofjustice wrote:
Anime Boston 2008, the year they first tried the automatic bar code kiosks, and all of them failed in catastrophic fashion. Compound on this the at the time record attendance (I think that was the year The Pillows showed up, which might have been a contributing factor) and the fact the Sheraton Boston was occupied by another convention (I think it was some sort of psoriasis coping seminar). I was a part of a high school group that had gone down for the weekend (despite the fact I had graduated two years earlier, it was just cheaper to go with them and all of the graduates who went brought the cost down for the kids so it was a win-win). Needless to say, the line for registration didn't move, at all. We were stationary for more than an hour before the massive line for pre-registration guests finally began to move. It took two hours to navigate before our group made a horrific discovery, this was the line to get into the actual line. The actual line looped around the convention center, up and down stairs and eventually to a third, much shorter line. All in all, I must have been in line for at least six hours. The rest of the group who had to register at the con had variable amounts of luck. Some were accidentally sent farther in line than they should have, getting through in less than two hours while others were in it the entire Friday, having to come back Saturday to complete their registration.


Anyone who has gone to Anime Boston will remember 2008. 2008 was my first time trying to get a 3 day pass, going to Anime Boston for the first time in 2007. I personally made 2 mistakes that day, not pre-registering and trying to get my pass on a day that I work. I remember clearly I arrived at the Hynes Convention at 10am and saw the massive line. I pretty much told myself, I'll get my pass, go in to check it out, and then go to work. An hour passed by and I was still enthusiastic. We were moving because I could see the end of the line. Sadly, I was wrong. The end of the line I saw was actually a separation of the line (AKA, the second line) because they could not block the hall. I continued in the line, listening to many people say "I have lost the game" over and over again [doesn't help that there were also signs taped to the wall that said "The Game"] until about 3PM. At that time, I had to leave for work so out of curiosity, I decided to see exactly how long the line was. I was completely surprised how long the line was. At my exact point, I would say I was probably 40% of the way and smack in the middle of the second line. So after spending 5 hours in line, I left to return on Saturday morning. I arrived early on Saturday but since it was no longer Friday (obvious, I know), I could only get a Saturday Pass. The line was definitely much shorter as I got the pass before lunch. As I attended, I heard stories that some people have waited 14+ hours just to get a pass that day. In fact, as a token of remembrance, I still have my Anime Boston 2008 Saturday Pass.
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