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NEWS: Tokyopop Reveals Details of Stitch!, Nightmare Before Christmas Manga Releases


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GracieLizzy



Joined: 26 Sep 2006
Posts: 551
Location: Sunderland, England, UK
PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 4:18 am Reply with quote
A quick look at the TokyoPop page on the encyclopedia seems to indicate from the list of news stories that this announcement been in the works since last year. Also I didn't realise quite how long they'd been out of the manga publishing game. I hope things go well for them!
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GATSU



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 5:28 am Reply with quote
Makes you realize how horrible Viz and Kodansha are at expanding their brand, if they didn't bring those over here first.
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Fallen Wings



Joined: 27 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 5:29 am Reply with quote
While it is questionably great that they are back again, considering how bad they treated their artists, haven't Tokyopop learned the lesson about covers yet?

CMX eventually changed the covers to have the CMX label instead of the overlay as the covers were a big turn off for consumers, but I thought that we might be getting the newer style that they were starting to phase in before they went defunct (which looked way better). I wonder why they reverted back to the previous style when, frankly, it looked rather cheap.
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lys



Joined: 24 Jun 2004
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 8:20 am Reply with quote
^I disagree about the cover designs. I wasn't a fan of the new cover design at the end—the black bar of info at the bottom of every cover of the new series made them all look generic (and probably covered more of the art than the spine-edge designs, if that's our concern), and didn't fit the style of some series (I'm looking at this as mainly a shoujo fan so maybe that's why a sleek black design didn't appeal to me). In contrast, I really loved several of the covers that came previous to that, which included the spine-edge design. I thought many were uniquely designed in a way that represented the series and gave an enjoyable, cohesive look (Maid Sama! was one favourite: the original JP covers confined the art to a square section rather than the full cover area, a habit of that publisher which has led to some kinda awkward cover designs for US editions, but Tokyopop's design filled the rest of the space with lace and prettiness suitable to the series that really set off the artwork. Others, like Skyblue Shore, had a more simple frame for the artwork, but still showed good taste and interesting design without resorting to generic-ness. I read both series and thought that the designer(s) captured the flavour of the stories and artwork in those covers. It's a totally different thing than the big, generic overlay CMX slapped on its early covers.
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epicwizard



Joined: 03 Jul 2014
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 10:36 am Reply with quote
I might check out the Stitch manga when it comes out.
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Touma



Joined: 29 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 10:49 am Reply with quote
Neither of those titles is of interest to me, but I do hope that Tokyopop is successful.

If we have more manga publishers in the US, and if manga becomes more popular, then maybe the prices of the books will come down and get closer to being reasonable.
Maybe.

I have no reservations about Tokyopop as a publisher because a lot of my favorite manga came from them when they were active before.
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Fallen Wings



Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Posts: 160
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 11:05 am Reply with quote
lys wrote:
^I disagree about the cover designs. I wasn't a fan of the new cover design at the end—the black bar of info at the bottom of every cover of the new series made them all look generic (and probably covered more of the art than the spine-edge designs, if that's our concern), and didn't fit the style of some series (I'm looking at this as mainly a shoujo fan so maybe that's why a sleek black design didn't appeal to me) ....

We can agree to disagree but I would like to clear this up to why it is bad. I completely think, and I'm sure other people in graphic design would, that their column is a basic failing at graphic design.

Maybe it is coming from a background of designing this sort of stuff, but you don't take up space in the area that has the smallest room. The question isn't whether it COVERS more art, it is whether it is justifiable for its positioning. You have more space going down the page than across the page, so it makes sense to put the logo down the bottom than on the side.

Imagine if the photoshop UI had all the tools and layers all at the top and none at the sides. It would be a basic failing of UI design as you just took up space in the direction that had the smallest area to begin with. Imagine trying to work in that, yuk. Likewise, it is kinda similar for Graphic Design.

So it looks like, to me, that Tokyopop would prefer to push the artwork out of the way for the sake of branding. And by trying to justify their weird band by making it pretty, there is a competition on the cover to capture the eye of the reader, which appears cheap (in my mind) and childish (Okay I'm not the only one who thinks it looks like The Little Golden Books).

Now I agree that it is generic looking, that isn't a bad thing since the focus generally is Artwork/Title, Creator, Brand in that order (you are selling a visual medium duh). If Tokyopop is trying to go by brand, they should give up now, since a lot of people already view them in contempt - making it extra baffling why they are doing it.

If you don't like the generic nature of the band at the bottom, that is completely up to you and a legitimate compliant if they were to bring them back. However I disagree that just because their side band was more visually interesting, it wasn't a major problem.

If I could grab Stu Levy and shake some sense into him, I would recommend no logo just like every. one. else. If not that then a simple logo on the cover, but if they insist of the silly band, it looked okay transparent.

/Graphic Design rant over, sorry day job
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lys



Joined: 24 Jun 2004
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 1:47 pm Reply with quote
Ahh, good explanation!! It makes sense when you set it all out. I still like their spine logos for the visual detail, but I can understand why it's not the wisest design choice compositionally. (and I'll gladly agree that a small logo on the cover or just the outer spine is all that's really needed.) Thanks for expanding my amateur knowledge and appreciation of graphic design :)

(now I'm curious, is that second-to-last link to a designer's website yours? or just an example you found to illustrate different cover designs?)
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Ali07



Joined: 01 Jun 2014
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Location: Victoria, Australia
PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 8:41 pm Reply with quote
Has TP only licensed manga based on Disney properties? Since they've come back, I've not seen mention of anything that isn't Disney related. These don't interest me, as I'm not really after western properties that have been worked on by Japanese illustrators/writers. I can consume way too much western properties.
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leafy sea dragon



Joined: 27 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 5:00 am Reply with quote
I forgot to take a picture of their booth, but I should mention that, though they had a booth at Anime Expo, they were at the very, very back of the exhibition hall instead of the front like every other publisher, localizer, and manufacturer. It's almost as if they were trying to distance themselves from the rest of the industry as possible instead of working together.

When you walk into the hall, you'd see big flashy booths from companies like FUNimation, Pony Canyon, Toei, Banpresto, and Bandai-Namco, but you have to walk to the very end to find Tokyopop's.

Fallen Wings wrote:
Imagine if the photoshop UI had all the tools and layers all at the top and none at the sides. It would be a basic failing of UI design as you just took up space in the direction that had the smallest area to begin with. Imagine trying to work in that, yuk. Likewise, it is kinda similar for Graphic Design.


Well, every version of NeoOffice I've ever used has everything at the top and absolutely nothing at the sides. Never really gave it much mind, and it never bothered me much.

However, now that you mention Tokyopop's logos being prominent on these covers, I can say it was the same thing for the Tokyopop booth there. The SEGA and Atlus booths were showcasing the games they had demos for with artwork and logos of their games. The Good Smile booth consisted of a small collection of figures inside glass showcases. The FUNimation booth had big banners with characters of current and upcoming shows. But the Tokyopop booth was the only one with its logo all over the walls. They had pictures of Stitch and Dory here and there, but I think it was the only booth that wanted to tell you which company was there more so than what they were producing.
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Fallen Wings



Joined: 27 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 11:37 am Reply with quote
lys wrote:
Thanks for expanding my amateur knowledge and appreciation of graphic design Smile

(now I'm curious, is that second-to-last link to a designer's website yours? or just an example you found to illustrate different cover designs?)

Haha, I'm not that good. And nope not me, but I should have linked to more designers though. People put hours into these things so I should give them credit. Glad my rant was useful to someone (aside from stress relief!).

leafy sea dragon wrote:
Well, every version of NeoOffice I've ever used has everything at the top and absolutely nothing at the sides. Never really gave it much mind, and it never bothered me much.

That's true. But then again they are different programs with different goals. NeoOffice is for basic office work while Photoshop is for professional art. I just used photoshop as an example because if you are an artist, it would get really annoying fast if you are trying to draw with half the space because photoshop wanted you to see all their tools. Bad UI design. You would want to see as much as possible when dealing with artwork (generally).

leafy sea dragon wrote:
But the Tokyopop booth was the only one with its logo all over the walls. They had pictures of Stitch and Dory here and there, but I think it was the only booth that wanted to tell you which company was there more so than what they were producing.

This I just don't get. I don't want to say it's an ego thing ... but it is totally an ego thing. I think everyone remembers that half of Tokyopop's products were B-grade comics at best, and the paper quality was bad. They need to try and present themselves as high quality before they start putting their name everywhere.
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Polycell



Joined: 16 Jan 2012
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:26 pm Reply with quote
Fallen Wings wrote:
That's true. But then again they are different programs with different goals. NeoOffice is for basic office work while Photoshop is for professional art. I just used photoshop as an example because if you are an artist, it would get really annoying fast if you are trying to draw with half the space because photoshop wanted you to see all their tools. Bad UI design. You would want to see as much as possible when dealing with artwork (generally).
For reading purposes, the traditional advice is to avoid horizontal scrolling like the plague. This makes vertical real estate a lot cheaper in word processors and email programs. It's been a while since I've worked with Photoshop specifically, but I've found most side-panels tend to be relatively easy to hide, so it makes sense a graphical program would lean towards them instead.

The FOSS photo editor GIMP takes the interesting approach of using separate windows for the tools, but the underlying magic makes it clumsier than it sounds(eg, they don't always appear in the taskbar).
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Levitz9



Joined: 06 Feb 2007
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Location: Puerto Rico
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:53 pm Reply with quote
Are your average manga fans even interested in reading manga adaptations of passé Disney titles? I love Stitch, but that there's a show that's old news; fans of that have been there, done that, bought the T-shirt and own a dusty Stitch Tsum-Tsum. As for Nightmare Before Christmas... jeez, man, that's a punchline of a property these days.

Tokyopop did a lot of western media back in their heyday (Starcraft, Warcraft, a Labyrinth sequel of all things), but did that even work out for them? I can't help but see this as Tokyopop falling back into Stu Levy's hectic, poorly-planned-out routines. Ignoring their terrible practices with artists, people are also mad at Tokyopop for leaving a lot of manga unfinished or underprinted.
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leafy sea dragon



Joined: 27 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 2:05 pm Reply with quote
Come to think of it, looking at my shelf of manga, Tokyopop's definitely takes up the most space with the logo on the spine. Most of the others are small logos at the bottom of the spine, but Tokyopop's extends down about an inch and a half and is always a deep red region at the top with a white image of that ball with a helmet.

I wonder why Tokyopop has moved back into the manga business. Did Stu's other business ventures not work out? I know he attempted to make TV shows, but I don't remember anything coming out of that.

Fallen Wings wrote:
That's true. But then again they are different programs with different goals. NeoOffice is for basic office work while Photoshop is for professional art. I just used photoshop as an example because if you are an artist, it would get really annoying fast if you are trying to draw with half the space because photoshop wanted you to see all their tools. Bad UI design. You would want to see as much as possible when dealing with artwork (generally).


I see what you mean. Makes me think of Corel PhotoImpact. I was using versions 3 through 5 a long while ago, back when I was running on Windows 98. I remember everything being at the top as well. Maybe that was before people decided to have art-related programs have everything on the sides, considering MS Paint, at that time, had everything up top too except for the colors. GIMP definitely has a vertical layout, and so do Flash/Animate and Meshmixer. SketchUp, however, has everything at the top. And video editing software, like Final Cut Pro, has its tools spread out everywhere.

As a result, I had never really associated where tools are located with their purpose. I always just considered it up to wherever the people who make these programs want to put them, if they give much thought into it at all. (Now that you mention it, I find it interesting that, experimenting with Meshmixer and SketchUp, which are 3-D modeling programs meant for use with 3-D printers, why they put the tools where they are. Meshmixer is meant for you to get creative and make organic shapes or detailed structures and has its tools as a column on the left, whereas SketchUp is a very utilitarian program meant to create polygonal structures, like buildings and furniture, as 3-D blueprints or miniature models and has its tools as a row on the top, though with a few dangling down to the side.)

That being said, the tools in ArtRage on my tablet are always on the lower-left as a column, regardless of if I'm holding it horizontally or vertically. And because I'm left-handed and I don't know how to change it, they seriously get in my way.

Fallen Wings wrote:
This I just don't get. I don't want to say it's an ego thing ... but it is totally an ego thing. I think everyone remembers that half of Tokyopop's products were B-grade comics at best, and the paper quality was bad. They need to try and present themselves as high quality before they start putting their name everywhere.


I didn't give that much thought when I walked by and just interpreted their booth as saying that they're back. But then, I realized that someone would need a pretty large ego to even make that kind of announcement in the first place.

I think it's been long enough that the younger anime and manga fans will have forgotten Tokyopop as a company though, or have never read anything they made. Maybe that's what they're banking on. Considering that Ray Croc decided to focus on McDonald's as a brand name right from the start, it could work if they produce something people want. I doubt it though, as Tokyopop now has more competition than they did before, and standard for printing manga have risen.

Polycell wrote:
For reading purposes, the traditional advice is to avoid horizontal scrolling like the plague. This makes vertical real estate a lot cheaper in word processors and email programs. It's been a while since I've worked with Photoshop specifically, but I've found most side-panels tend to be relatively easy to hide, so it makes sense a graphical program would lean towards them instead.


That's a good point. Horizontal scrolling slows reading down, so I guess that's why every word processor or anything remotely related to word-processing has all the tools at the top.
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Fallen Wings



Joined: 27 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 3:13 pm Reply with quote
Polycell wrote:
For reading purposes, the traditional advice is to avoid horizontal scrolling like the plague. This makes vertical real estate a lot cheaper in word processors and email programs.

Thank you for expanding! Smile
Polycell wrote:
The FOSS photo editor GIMP takes the interesting approach of using separate windows for the tools, but the underlying magic makes it clumsier than it sounds(eg, they don't always appear in the taskbar).

Yeah, GIMP itself has died really as a program. But apparently they are rebuilding it, basically, behind the scenes so who knows. But I agree. It was a pretty difficult program to use back in the day.
leafy sea dragon wrote:
I wonder why Tokyopop has moved back into the manga business. Did Stu's other business ventures not work out? I know he attempted to make TV shows, but I don't remember anything coming out of that.

Oh God that Van Hunter thing they tried to do was hilarious. Link in case people haven't seen the bad, cringe-worthy movie starring Yuri Lowenthal. And guess who wrote it and directed it - Stu Levy.

But Tokyopop is still pretty big in Germany, so I guess that is what has been sustaining it.
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