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REVIEW: Weathering With You [2020-09-24]




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Sisyphusson66



Joined: 04 Dec 2018
Posts: 96
PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:04 pm Reply with quote
Great review!

While a visually stunning film, its characters, namely Hodaka, rubbed me the wrong way and made the film a worse experience for me. I could never empathize with him. While the rest of the cast have difficult struggles to deal with in their lives, Hodaka's struggles boil down to teen angst. He says he ran away from home, and doesn't want to go back to his parents, and that's the extent in which we are aware of his strife. By the end, the consequences of his actions are what? He gets sent home where he lives out a normal high school life. He gets himself involved in the lives of these people who have their own problems and endangers their desires to over come them. His decision in the end then, also just feels entitled rather than hard fought and difficult.

By the end of the film, I just wished that Hina's brother was the main protagonist instead, as he seemed the more mature and would have had more stakes in the decisions made throughout the film.
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whiskeyii



Joined: 29 May 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:56 pm Reply with quote
I went in really wanting to like this film, and I felt there were parts that were really gripping for me—the first scene with Hodaka and the gun, for example, was really well done to me. But I was really soured by the ending spoiler[(I think I was one of the few people who actually caught the diagetic background radio about Hina and Hodaka’s actions resulting in major food shortages, for example)], and given the state of the world right now, that sourness has only increased for me. I do think it could’ve been eased by having a more consequential end for Hodaka, especially during what was basically and extended epilogue, but it still struck me as a very young, naive sort of ending, and not in that “young, hopeful optimist” kind of way, but more in a “young and stupid” kind of way.
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Kougeru



Joined: 13 May 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:52 pm Reply with quote
whiskeyii wrote:
I went in really wanting to like this film, and I felt there were parts that were really gripping for me—the first scene with Hodaka and the gun, for example, was really well done to me. But I was really soured by the ending spoiler[(I think I was one of the few people who actually caught the diagetic background radio about Hina and Hodaka’s actions resulting in major food shortages, for example)], and given the state of the world right now, that sourness has only increased for me. I do think it could’ve been eased by having a more consequential end for Hodaka, especially during what was basically and extended epilogue, but it still struck me as a very young, naive sort of ending, and not in that “young, hopeful optimist” kind of way, but more in a “young and stupid” kind of way.


I can understand that angle, but the way I saw it wasspoiler[ "why should someone innocent be punished for something caused by everyone else?". And my conclusion was that she shouldn't. Hina deserved to live, even if it costs the rest of the world some things. Hina did nothing wrong.]

My only concerns are if the US release messed with the video quality at all. The JP release was really solid (as usual) except for the 4K HDR but that's always bad tbh. But the nerds at blu-ray.com will probably go through this
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zrdb





PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 8:20 pm Reply with quote
I'm gonna make this short and sweet-while Weathering With You was a gorgeous film I vastly preferred Your Name.
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kotomikun



Joined: 06 May 2013
Posts: 1205
PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 8:21 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
All of the potential major threats to the safety and security of our cast just sort of evaporate without much consequence. Hina and Hodaka have almost zero friction in their relationship – they have a fondness for each other before they have even conversated and never really come into conflict.

The primary conflict in this story is "man vs. nature" (both in the literal sense of the violent and almost sentient weather, and in the sense of laws of the universe outside our control) with a side of "man vs. society" (police attempting to drag Hodaka back to his implied-to-be-abusive parents and upend Hina and her brother's lifestyle, and Keisuke and Natsumi's struggle to do their own thing and/or just survive in a corporate world). Hina and Hodaka having a mostly-idyllic relationship is intentional; it's one of the few good things they have in their lives. And both nature and society are out to ruin that, as well.

I get the impression that many people ultimately judge this whole movie by taking Hodaka's "decision" completely out of context, and working backwards from there. But they never would have been in that position without Hodaka's bad parents (or bullies?) forcing him to run away, capitalism forcing Hina to literally spoiler[trade her life force away] to pay rent, and so on. Even with the power to change the weather, they were still being metaphorically blown around by the wind, with no real control over their lives. Sooner or later, anyone in a situation like that is bound to get fed up with it. spoiler[(And if you must blame them, at least don't pin it all on Hodaka; it was a mutual decision. The first time he drags Hina out of a bad situation, she gets mad at him, but she doesn't take issue with un-sacrificing herself to the sky. Leaving her up there forever likely wouldn't have fixed the weather permanently, anyway, as it's implied many "weather girls" have been sacrificed in the past.)]

The metaphor here for climate change is pretty obvious, but it seems this was also misinterpreted by too many people. I've probably explained this before, but here it is again: spoiler[The unnaturally heavy rain came about through people buying something that disrupts normal weather patterns--analogous to fossil fuels. It can only be stopped, and likely only temporarily, by a young person giving their life to the cause, even though it was never really their fault. (Yes, she "participates in society" so to speak, but the scene with the old geezer was meant to show that society has forgotten how the climate functions, and they're now willing to screw with it for frivolous reasons. That isn't the fault of teenagers just trying to make a living.) The point is not that climate change doesn't matter, but that putting all the responsibility on kids is unreasonable.]
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Sisyphusson66



Joined: 04 Dec 2018
Posts: 96
PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 9:53 pm Reply with quote
kotomikun wrote:
Quote:
All of the potential major threats to the safety and security of our cast just sort of evaporate without much consequence. Hina and Hodaka have almost zero friction in their relationship – they have a fondness for each other before they have even conversated and never really come into conflict.

The primary conflict in this story is "man vs. nature" (both in the literal sense of the violent and almost sentient weather, and in the sense of laws of the universe outside our control) with a side of "man vs. society" (police attempting to drag Hodaka back to his implied-to-be-abusive parents and upend Hina and her brother's lifestyle, and Keisuke and Natsumi's struggle to do their own thing and/or just survive in a corporate world). Hina and Hodaka having a mostly-idyllic relationship is intentional; it's one of the few good things they have in their lives. And both nature and society are out to ruin that, as well.

I get the impression that many people ultimately judge this whole movie by taking Hodaka's "decision" completely out of context, and working backwards from there. But they never would have been in that position without Hodaka's bad parents (or bullies?) forcing him to run away, capitalism forcing Hina to literally spoiler[trade her life force away] to pay rent, and so on. Even with the power to change the weather, they were still being metaphorically blown around by the wind, with no real control over their lives. Sooner or later, anyone in a situation like that is bound to get fed up with it. spoiler[(And if you must blame them, at least don't pin it all on Hodaka; it was a mutual decision. The first time he drags Hina out of a bad situation, she gets mad at him, but she doesn't take issue with un-sacrificing herself to the sky. Leaving her up there forever likely wouldn't have fixed the weather permanently, anyway, as it's implied many "weather girls" have been sacrificed in the past.)]


The problem with Hodaka for me was how little we know about him versus how important a character he is to the narrative. All we know about his family life is from his own words, and very few on that front. We are given detail into the troubles of every other main character and side character with presence, but nothing about Hodaka. I can't reach the conclusion that he has horrible parents or is from a bad household because there is no real evidence for it. His life, out of everyone's in the cast, is the most "normal." As I said, after he spoiler[returns home, we see that he has graduated high school. There is no indication that his home life was bad, and no indication that he was ostracized at school, as we see him speaking with another student.] Almost every decision he makes in the film is in his own self-interest, and all of this led me to just see his issue as teen angst.

I ultimately read the film differently, as I see its message being about our inability to make lasting sacrifices in order to enact change. And what better way to show that than by sticking to a story of a boy saving the girl he loves from her sacrifice.
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Morry



Joined: 26 Jun 2016
Posts: 756
PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:58 pm Reply with quote
I am perhaps one of the few people who prefers this film to Your Name. The characters, story, aesthetic, it was all my jive. I love both, but I had a lot more to complain about with Your Name.

Sisyphusson66 wrote:
The problem with Hodaka for me was how little we know about him versus how important a character he is to the narrative. All we know about his family life is from his own words, and very few on that front. We are given detail into the troubles of every other main character and side character with presence, but nothing about Hodaka. I can't reach the conclusion that he has horrible parents or is from a bad household because there is no real evidence for it. His life, out of everyone's in the cast, is the most "normal." As I said, after he spoiler[returns home, we see that he has graduated high school. There is no indication that his home life was bad, and no indication that he was ostracized at school, as we see him speaking with another student.] Almost every decision he makes in the film is in his own self-interest, and all of this led me to just see his issue as teen angst.

I ultimately read the film differently, as I see its message being about our inability to make lasting sacrifices in order to enact change. And what better way to show that than by sticking to a story of a boy saving the girl he loves from her sacrifice.


Question: have you heard of show, don't tell? The way Shinkai handled Hodaka's backstory is a favorite of mine.

spoiler[*From scene 1, his face is bandaged, taking ship from small island; flashbacks later show him beat up while biking in school uniform.
*One of his few travel possessions is Catcher in the Rye, a common school reading book.
*He considers a McDonald's burger the best food he's had in his life.
*He considers his life at home, in his small town, suffocating.
*It takes months for his family to start looking for him.]


Read between the lines and it's clear he's a kid spoiler[bullied at school with an at best abusively neglectful family at home. Combined with a boring small town and recent reading about another underaged runaway,] there's nothing more to say.
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Sisyphusson66



Joined: 04 Dec 2018
Posts: 96
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 3:15 am Reply with quote
Morry wrote:
I am perhaps one of the few people who prefers this film to Your Name. The characters, story, aesthetic, it was all my jive. I love both, but I had a lot more to complain about with Your Name.

Sisyphusson66 wrote:
The problem with Hodaka for me was how little we know about him versus how important a character he is to the narrative. All we know about his family life is from his own words, and very few on that front. We are given detail into the troubles of every other main character and side character with presence, but nothing about Hodaka. I can't reach the conclusion that he has horrible parents or is from a bad household because there is no real evidence for it. His life, out of everyone's in the cast, is the most "normal." As I said, after he spoiler[returns home, we see that he has graduated high school. There is no indication that his home life was bad, and no indication that he was ostracized at school, as we see him speaking with another student.] Almost every decision he makes in the film is in his own self-interest, and all of this led me to just see his issue as teen angst.

I ultimately read the film differently, as I see its message being about our inability to make lasting sacrifices in order to enact change. And what better way to show that than by sticking to a story of a boy saving the girl he loves from her sacrifice.


Question: have you heard of show, don't tell? The way Shinkai handled Hodaka's backstory is a favorite of mine.

spoiler[*From scene 1, his face is bandaged, taking ship from small island; flashbacks later show him beat up while biking in school uniform.
*One of his few travel possessions is Catcher in the Rye, a common school reading book.
*He considers a McDonald's burger the best food he's had in his life.
*He considers his life at home, in his small town, suffocating.
*It takes months for his family to start looking for him.]


Read between the lines and it's clear he's a kid spoiler[bullied at school with an at best abusively neglectful family at home. Combined with a boring small town and recent reading about another underaged runaway,] there's nothing more to say.


Show, don't tell works and does some work here spoiler[(I had actually forgotten about Catcher in the Rye, thanks for the reminder)], however for me it never did enough for him as a character with the most action outside of representing his teen angst. Shinkai shows and tells us about the struggles of everyone else, but leaves little information about Hodaka, even when the other characters are risking everything to help him. This didn't help me warm to his character.

The scenes you point out do show a troubled kid, but I do wonder about his actual life in his town. spoiler[Being beat up does not necessarily mean that he was bullied, he could have just as easily been the instigator, or maybe he was looking for fights. Given the symbolism of carrying Catcher with him (is it taught in Japan?), I am leaning more towards something like the latter. This would tie in with his disillusionment with his home town.]

And then the stuff with his parents spoiler[ are they really neglectful? I haven't seen the film since February, so I could be wrong, but I thought the reason it took so long to search for him was because they had no clue where he went or where to look, and the authorities were only able to track him down because he was caught on camera during the first gun incident earlier in the story. Maybe they're absent, or maybe they just don't understand him, but are well-meaning, maybe they afford him freedom, maybe they're abusive, or maybe they're neglectful. Teenage angst can arise from any one of these, and even others. My point is everything we know about him is from his perspective (are there every any flashbacks where he is with someone else? I don't remember any).]
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Key
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Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley)
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:59 am Reply with quote
Quote:
…and yet there is an unmistakable sense of missed potential keeping Weathering With You from being one of the greats.

Nothing in the film feels incompetent or poorly executed, but you do not get the sense of anything being particularly risky or ground-breaking either. The film is good from start to finish but never quite makes the leap into being great. It is hard to articulate exactly why that is, but the lack of any truly defining elements is one reason that comes to mind.

This part of the review sums up my reaction to the movie almost exactly. Not a bad film by any means, and it certainly looks fabulous, but it just never achieved the impact it felt like it should have. Between the two, Your Name is the better work.
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whiskeyii



Joined: 29 May 2013
Posts: 2242
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:20 pm Reply with quote
Kougeru wrote:

I can understand that angle, but the way I saw it wasspoiler[ "why should someone innocent be punished for something caused by everyone else?". And my conclusion was that she shouldn't. Hina deserved to live, even if it costs the rest of the world some things. Hina did nothing wrong.]


I can totally see that, and I think ultimately my issue comes from my worldview just being very at odds with the movie's perspective on climate change. Weathering With You seems to treat it as an inevitability, so it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things if spoiler[Japan sinks now or in a few years.] Whereas for me, it seems more like something to rail and rage against as much as possible, with the hope of eventually bringing about real top-level change. If anything, Hadoka going around trying to spoiler[apologize for his actions] during the epilogue, only for the adults to shrug it off felt off for me, like suddenly no one really believed that Hina had been a Sunshine Girl and that spoiler[ushering in the apocalypse sooner rather than later] wasn't at all Hadoka's fault, when he was really at least partly to blame. It just felt like a messy, almost inconsequential ending. But that is definitely more of a "me" problem than maybe an actual problem with the movie. I just could not connect with what the movie was trying to say in its climax.
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stilldemented



Joined: 16 May 2015
Posts: 232
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:25 pm Reply with quote
I'm of a different mind in that I got more out of this movie than I anticipated. Coming off of Your Name, I didn't really expect Shinkai to catch lightning in a bottle once again. So I went into this movie with lower expectations and ended up being pleasantly surprised that I got pretty much everything out of the story that I got out of Your Name. So it was a win in my book.

In that regard, I don't think you're being sold anything fresh with this Shinkai film. And that's the only real sticking point I'm seeing at play here. New story. Same formula. You get the sense that Shinkai has found something of a comfort zone for his storytelling. And perhaps that is what really leaves people a little less impressed with Weathering With You. They've already seen this magic trick in Your Name.

Personally, I don't really think it was necessary to know what drives Hodoka to run away from home. The story doesn't revolve around his past relationships so much as his present ones. And his motivations probably aren't going to be anything profound enough to warrant dwelling in it.
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Morry



Joined: 26 Jun 2016
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:07 pm Reply with quote
Sisyphusson66 wrote:
Show, don't tell works and does some work here spoiler[(I had actually forgotten about Catcher in the Rye, thanks for the reminder)], however for me it never did enough for him as a character with the most action outside of representing his teen angst. Shinkai shows and tells us about the struggles of everyone else, but leaves little information about Hodaka, even when the other characters are risking everything to help him. This didn't help me warm to his character.

The scenes you point out do show a troubled kid, but I do wonder about his actual life in his town. spoiler[Being beat up does not necessarily mean that he was bullied, he could have just as easily been the instigator, or maybe he was looking for fights. Given the symbolism of carrying Catcher with him (is it taught in Japan?), I am leaning more towards something like the latter. This would tie in with his disillusionment with his home town.]

And then the stuff with his parents spoiler[ are they really neglectful? I haven't seen the film since February, so I could be wrong, but I thought the reason it took so long to search for him was because they had no clue where he went or where to look, and the authorities were only able to track him down because he was caught on camera during the first gun incident earlier in the story. Maybe they're absent, or maybe they just don't understand him, but are well-meaning, maybe they afford him freedom, maybe they're abusive, or maybe they're neglectful. Teenage angst can arise from any one of these, and even others. My point is everything we know about him is from his perspective (are there every any flashbacks where he is with someone else? I don't remember any).]


What more do you really need? What I illustrated before provides enough. His background's a typical story, (hardly groundbreaking) and you're either going to connect with it or not.

spoiler[Hodaka is consistently presented as flight, not fight. He only gets violent when backed into a corner, and acts generally good-natured if slightly pervy. The story gives no reason to assume him the aggressor/instigator. (as for Catcher in the Rye, I know of at least one Japanese school that taught it; not sure if it's standard)

The kid has a huge complex about family and belonging, which only gets fulfilled by his son-like role working with Suga and Natsumi and brother/husband-like role working with Hina and Nagi. And that was a first for him.That's not someone who has had a healthy home life. Later he gets scared when Suga and ultimately Hina abandon him, and is absolutely unwilling to go home even with legal threat.

And call me out of my element, but I don't think it takes police a month to question a guy after he is caught on camera beating on a gun-toting kid who himself ran away from home on an official liner the month before; maybe that's just narrative flaw, but everything else suggests the parents took their time filing that (I assume legally-required) missing person's report.

If your complaint really is that we just have Hodaka's indications, I'm sorry, but I don't see the need for anything else. His demonstrable character versus the parents' absence sends the message, especially by the end when he goes straight to Tokyo after graduation with no signs of parental sendoff. Same with Hina's ominously missing dad; we're already given the basic picture.]


stilldemented wrote:
I'm of a different mind in that I got more out of this movie than I anticipated. Coming off of Your Name, I didn't really expect Shinkai to catch lightning in a bottle once again. So I went into this movie with lower expectations and ended up being pleasantly surprised that I got pretty much everything out of the story that I got out of Your Name. So it was a win in my book.

In that regard, I don't think you're being sold anything fresh with this Shinkai film. And that's the only real sticking point I'm seeing at play here. New story. Same formula. You get the sense that Shinkai has found something of a comfort zone for his storytelling. And perhaps that is what really leaves people a little less impressed with Weathering With You. They've already seen this magic trick in Your Name.

Personally, I don't really think it was necessary to know what drives Hodoka to run away from home. The story doesn't revolve around his past relationships so much as his present ones. And his motivations probably aren't going to be anything profound enough to warrant dwelling in it.


Totally agree.

whiskeyii wrote:

If anything, Hadoka going around trying to spoiler[apologize for his actions] during the epilogue, only for the adults to shrug it off felt off for me, like suddenly no one really believed that Hina had been a Sunshine Girl and that spoiler[ushering in the apocalypse sooner rather than later] wasn't at all Hadoka's fault, when he was really at least partly to blame. It just felt like a messy, almost inconsequential ending. But that is definitely more of a "me" problem than maybe an actual problem with the movie. I just could not connect with what the movie was trying to say in its climax.


spoiler[For what it's worth, the ending is Hodaka rejecting those excuses that he isn't responsible or did nothing of consequence. Old-fashioned grandma takes the view of things ultimately returning to nature, ignorant to what really transpired. Cynical tsundere uncle downplays man's influence over phenomenon greater than themselves, trying to alleviate Hodaka's guilt. (he sees the kid as a reflection of himself, and lost his wife to a tragic quirk of fate beyond his control) Hina's existence and freedom from her fate as a Sunshine Girl proves that Tokyo has changed because of their actions, and that "we'll be all right." Make of that what you will.]
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