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Lord Geo
Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 2544
Location: North Brunswick, New Jersey
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 Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 1:00 pm
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So what Nagoshi is essentially saying is "Stop asking for Kiryu, and instead start asking for Majima".
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ChrisKris
Joined: 06 Feb 2009
Posts: 79
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Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 1:27 pm
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Respect for the creator who wants his character to be clean.
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zawa113
Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 7357
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Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 1:35 pm
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Lol as adorable as that is, I would like to point out kiryu beating up pleasure king in zero. All characters present, kiryu included, agreed pleasure king is a woman. To be fair, she was absolutely going to fight him, it's not like that didn't happened unprovoked.
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MarshalBanana
Joined: 31 Aug 2014
Posts: 5315
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Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 1:44 pm
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| Lord Geo wrote: | | So what Nagoshi is essentially saying is "Stop asking for Kiryu, and instead start asking for Majima". |
That needs to happen.
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Blanchimont
Joined: 25 Feb 2012
Posts: 3446
Location: Finland
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Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 2:29 pm
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| Quote: | | He has also said that he is careful to depict Kiryu as the kind of character who will never start a fight by himself, instead only accepting fights that come to him. "I think basing your game in reality and forcing responsibility brings your experience closer to the real world," |
That's a commendable reason not to want one's character appear in fighting games.
However...
| Quote: | | "..but fighting games generally have female characters, and personally I don't really want to see Kiryu beating up women." |
that on the other hand is a straight up sexist statement...
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Beatdigga
Joined: 26 Oct 2003
Posts: 4367
Location: New York
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Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 3:13 pm
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If a character has acted a certain way for years, and a fighting game makes him act antithetical to that, I get it. That’d be like Aang showing up in Mortal Kombat and outright killing dudes (as opposed to just making Fujin an Airbender).
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lostrune
Joined: 09 Jun 2012
Posts: 313
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Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 3:56 pm
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| zawa113 wrote: | | Lol as adorable as that is, I would like to point out kiryu beating up pleasure king in zero. All characters present, kiryu included, agreed pleasure king is a woman. To be fair, she was absolutely going to fight him, it's not like that didn't happened unprovoked. |
Calling the character the Pleasure King sort of runs counter-intuitive to that, don't you think? Yakuza kinda has a lot of crossdressing jokes in it so I dunno how genuine that scene in question might be. Either way I could have sworn Kiryu has hit women before. I mean, he hit Haruka once at the very least.
But yeah, still, put Majima in crossovers instead, he's way cooler 
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Vaisaga
Joined: 07 Oct 2011
Posts: 13224
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Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 4:57 pm
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| Blanchimont wrote: | However...
| Quote: | | "..but fighting games generally have female characters, and personally I don't really want to see Kiryu beating up women." |
that on the other hand is a straight up sexist statement... |
In the immortal words of Deadpool: "This is confusing. Is it sexist to hit you? Is it more sexist to not hit you?"
BTW, Kiryu can beat up female enemies in the Project X Zone games.
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Emerje
Joined: 10 Aug 2002
Posts: 7337
Location: Maine
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Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 5:00 pm
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| Blanchimont wrote: |
| Quote: | | "..but fighting games generally have female characters, and personally I don't really want to see Kiryu beating up women." |
that on the other hand is a straight up sexist statement... |
So NOT wanting to see guys beat woman is sexist now? It's like everything I thought I knew was a lie. Go out there and beat women, Kiryu, they demand equal treatment!
Emerje
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BadNewsBlues
Joined: 21 Sep 2014
Posts: 5917
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Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 5:18 pm
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| Beatdigga wrote: | | If a character has acted a certain way for years, and a fighting game makes him act antithetical to that, I get it. That’d be like Aang showing up in Mortal Kombat and outright killing dudes (as opposed to just making Fujin an Airbender). |
I mean Sanji has been fighting women in One Piece video games for years and no one’s batted an eye.
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Blanchimont
Joined: 25 Feb 2012
Posts: 3446
Location: Finland
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Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 5:31 pm
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| Emerje wrote: | | So NOT wanting to see guys beat woman is sexist now? It's like everything I thought I knew was a lie. Go out there and beat women, Kiryu, they demand equal treatment! |
It's an example of benevolent sexism, while it may seem harmless at first glance it might enforce positions of gender inequality. In similar vein when holding doors for women exclusively, or like holding the view that women should be rescued first from a sinking ship, or other gender-specific, protective behavior, those things are likely to enforce the view that women are the weaker gender, ie helpless and incompetent beings, when that behavior is targeted towards them. There's been studies done on that...
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zawa113
Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 7357
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Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 5:56 pm
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| lostrune wrote: |
| zawa113 wrote: | | Lol as adorable as that is, I would like to point out kiryu beating up pleasure king in zero. All characters present, kiryu included, agreed pleasure king is a woman. To be fair, she was absolutely going to fight him, it's not like that didn't happened unprovoked. |
Calling the character the Pleasure King sort of runs counter-intuitive to that, don't you think? Yakuza kinda has a lot of crossdressing jokes in it so I dunno how genuine that scene in question might be. |
Not exactly. My understanding is that, in Japanese, "King" is a more gender neutral term. Since she was part of a set of five, it would make sense on the translation to just call all of them "kings" in this situation. Literally the only reason Kiryu is ok with beating her is that he refused to acknowledge her as a transwoman.
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El Hermano
Joined: 24 Feb 2019
Posts: 450
Location: Texas
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Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 5:57 pm
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| lostrune wrote: | | Calling the character the Pleasure King sort of runs counter-intuitive to that, don't you think? |
I haven't played 0 since it came out so I can't comment on this specific instance, but that could very likely be a localization change. The American localization tends to censor a bit of stuff dealing with sexuality and gender they think would be offensive in America. That whole "Kiryu has never killed anyone" meme was also born out of a mistranslation.
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Cardcaptor Takato
Joined: 27 Jan 2018
Posts: 4817
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Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 6:15 pm
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| Emerje wrote: | |
So NOT wanting to see guys beat woman is sexist now? It's like everything I thought I knew was a lie. Go out there and beat women, Kiryu, they demand equal treatment!
Emerje |
I don't think the creator meant anything in particular by his statement and people are kind of blowing out of proportion to be some sort of radical political statement. It probably wasn't meant in a mean spirited way but it does kind of fall into kind of a stereotyped view of women and the whole chivalry thing. And Sailor Jupiter would probably punch his lights out.
Last edited by Cardcaptor Takato on Tue Nov 10, 2020 6:24 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Beatdigga
Joined: 26 Oct 2003
Posts: 4367
Location: New York
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Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 6:17 pm
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| BadNewsBlues wrote: |
| Beatdigga wrote: | | If a character has acted a certain way for years, and a fighting game makes him act antithetical to that, I get it. That’d be like Aang showing up in Mortal Kombat and outright killing dudes (as opposed to just making Fujin an Airbender). |
I mean Sanji has been fighting women in One Piece video games for years and no one’s batted an eye. |
Actually his inability to attack women is built into the Pirate Warriors game. He won’t do it and the game actually warns you about such when dealing with female bosses.
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