×
  • remind me tomorrow
  • remind me next week
  • never remind me
Subscribe to the ANN Newsletter • Wake up every Sunday to a curated list of ANN's most interesting posts of the week. read more

Forum - View topic
This Week in Anime - Why Marin is Everyone's Dress-Up Darling


Goto page 1, 2  Next

Note: this is the discussion thread for this article

Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
dm
Subscriber



Joined: 24 Sep 2010
Posts: 1346
PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2022 9:39 am Reply with quote
Yes! Let's all celebrate this wonderful, dorky series!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
FilthyCasual



Joined: 01 Jun 2015
Posts: 2165
PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2022 9:55 am Reply with quote
Twelve episodes is not enough.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
JustMonika



Joined: 17 Jan 2022
Posts: 926
PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2022 9:59 am Reply with quote
This is the most stacked year in anime history. Yet I still don't think anything will top.this for me aside from Date A Live 4 since that's my favorite series.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
tywhoppity



Joined: 09 Sep 2019
Posts: 193
PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2022 10:27 am Reply with quote
As a manga reader, I was a little apprehensive when I heard about the anime adaptation, because there's so many ways they could screw it up. Kudos to Cloverworks for knocking it out of the park(so far)! Folks can keep their Yaiba or AOT, this show is the season's best for me!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NeverConvex
Subscriber



Joined: 08 Jun 2013
Posts: 2267
PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2022 11:35 am Reply with quote
At this point, I think I agree that Marin no longer really feels to me like an MPDG (and think she feels less and less like one the more fully her point of view is developed), but I don't think "People like Marin really exist" really addresses the core concern. I still think she seemed custom-built in episodes 1-2 to tear Gojo out of his long-term funk, and the only parts of her interior space we'd really been introduced to at the time naturally slotted into common otaku fantasies. She was classically beautiful, popular and outgoing, specifically defensive of and uninhibited about weird hobbies, romantically unentangled, passionate about an intensely nerdy and very sexual hobby -- and we spent nearly half the run-time of those two episodes watching her quite literally bounce around the screen, zooming in on her chest, butt, etc. Sure, people like this exist, but fantasy based on a real person can still be fantasy, especially if you focus on specifically those attributes most, uh, palatable to your target audience.

The unwillingness to acknowledge that this was a worrying initial setup for her character (and the attacking of anyone who worried about it -- says more about you, eh :/) is really perplexing to me, and looks a lot like "I like this thing, so it is beyond criticism or concern", which I see often enough here, but usually from a very different group of posters. Anyway, though I didn't feel this way as of Ep 2, I can certainly agree that the show has since done a good job continuing to build her up as an interesting, believable person, and am looking forward to more of this. If my Japanese were stronger, I'd probably even pick up the manga.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
blooperboy



Joined: 28 Dec 2021
Posts: 131
PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2022 12:22 pm Reply with quote
NeverConvex wrote:
At this point, I think I agree that Marin no longer really feels to me like an MPDG (and think she feels less and less like one the more fully her point of view is developed), but I don't think "People like Marin really exist" really addresses the core concern. I still think she seemed custom-built in episodes 1-2 to tear Gojo out of his long-term funk, and the only parts of her interior space we'd really been introduced to at the time naturally slotted into common otaku fantasies. She was classically beautiful, popular and outgoing, specifically defensive of and uninhibited about weird hobbies, romantically unentangled, passionate about an intensely nerdy and very sexual hobby -- and we spent nearly half the run-time of those two episodes watching her quite literally bounce around the screen, zooming in on her chest, butt, etc. Sure, people like this exist, but fantasy based on a real person can still be fantasy, especially if you focus on specifically those attributes most, uh, palatable to your target audience.

The unwillingness to acknowledge that this was a worrying initial setup for her character (and the attacking of anyone who worried about it -- says more about you, eh :/) is really perplexing to me, and looks a lot like "I like this thing, so it is beyond criticism or concern", which I see often enough here, but usually from a very different group of posters. Anyway, though I didn't feel this way as of Ep 2, I can certainly agree that the show has since done a good job continuing to build her up as an interesting, believable person, and am looking forward to more of this. If my Japanese were stronger, I'd probably even pick up the manga.


What confuses me about the view you have is wondering what should have been done differently.

This is a seinin, so it seems logical to me that they would start with making sure that we had a closer connection to the male character. After all, the male character is the one that the target audience is supposed to be able to see themselves in. From there, we learn about Marin as Gojo does. No one starts to know someone by having a long sit-down conversation where you go over your hopes, fears, and aspirations. You learn more about the person as time goes on and as you spend time together. The more the series progresses, the more we DO get of Marin's interior space, but it seems like a solid writing decision not to overwhelm the reader with characters that are too complex too early.

I think part of the reason some people (myself included) get defensive on people who criticize the show based on the first two episodes is that those criticisms are more based in the genre than in the series itself. I can certainly get behind a conversation about how many works targeted towards teen boys tend to flatten their female characters and rely on old tropes and plot devices. But at the same time, I don't go into the romance novel section and say that 'Ravished by Moonlight' is a bad story because it only focuses on the woman's emotions and uses the male 'love interest' to just move the plot along. Because thats generally what I came there for. And while there can definitely be a discussion about how maybe thats not the best thing all the time, I am strongly reminded of The Onion piece, 'Woman Takes Short Half-Hour Break From Being Feminist To Enjoy TV Show.' Sometimes I don't WANT realistic, I'm here because I WANT to experience a fantasy.

Also side note to the very last part in there, the manga is licensed in English by Square Enix and can be purchased and read in either physical form or digital ebook form.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NeverConvex
Subscriber



Joined: 08 Jun 2013
Posts: 2267
PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2022 12:28 pm Reply with quote
I think that's all fair, blooperboy, and I wasn't saying it should have been written differently. I think the concerns that Marin may have been/might amount to nothing more than a superficial fantasy were reasonable in the early episodes, but are less reasonable now. That doesn't make the early episodes poorly written; it just means that I don't think viewers concerned were being unreasonable, given the limited information the first few episodes had time to give. (Mm -- and, also, the points about fantasy sometimes being part of the goal and not necessarily a sign of poor writing are well-taken, although I'm not quite sure what to say about it at the moment. I think there is some truth to it, but I'd still have more praise for a romance where all characters feel like real, complex people than one that didn't, even though I too sometimes specifically want the latter kind of fantasy.)

Well, hmm - I guess I would probably move Episode 2 later into the series (though this might be hard to do, given it's part of their first cosplay excursion), and find some way to either reduce it or break it up a bit (this is probably more doable). That wasn't my primary point and isn't a major complaint, though (and also isn't one I want to re-hash given how much attention it's already gotten in earlier threads) -- I thought it was a weaker episode, but not outright bad. (And, ah, leaving behind episodes 1-2, I would have outright deleted the much later Juju's bathroom scene.)

EDIT: And thanks for the manga link -- may be tempted, not sure. Trying to become distantly competent in Japanese and then to use manga as a good source of additional practice material, but if I get impatient I may pick up an English-language copy. Shocked

EDIT2: (It was important that I add as many parentheses as is possible, evidently.)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Yttrbio
Subscriber



Joined: 09 Jun 2011
Posts: 3649
PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2022 1:02 pm Reply with quote
blooperboy wrote:
I think part of the reason some people (myself included) get defensive on people who criticize the show based on the first two episodes is that those criticisms are more based in the genre than in the series itself. I can certainly get behind a conversation about how many works targeted towards teen boys tend to flatten their female characters and rely on old tropes and plot devices. But at the same time, I don't go into the romance novel section and say that 'Ravished by Moonlight' is a bad story because it only focuses on the woman's emotions and uses the male 'love interest' to just move the plot along. Because thats generally what I came there for.
I don't think the MPDG description is saying it's a bad story. As you say, sometimes people want a fantasy. But then why get defensive about someone saying "this looks exactly like a fantasy"?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
njprogfan
Collector Extraordinaire



Joined: 08 Feb 2007
Posts: 1155
Location: A River Named Toms
PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2022 1:37 pm Reply with quote
I'm with you, Steve. This is one of the few series I go out of my way to watch on the day it airs here in the States; Saturday. And about her fiddling with her hair, solid animation! Character animation on this show is hitting it out of the stadium. If it looked anything like, say Real Girl, (which had very good dialogue/storyline, but man that dicey animation) I don't know if I'd enjoy it as much. The body language animation, camera angles and direction shows such love of the source material, I can bet Shinichi Fukuda is on cloud 9 with joy, and the boost it's giving the manga.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime My Manga
Kyo Hisagi



Joined: 01 Jul 2017
Posts: 255
PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2022 2:28 pm Reply with quote
I didn't expect it to be THAT enjoyable.
Makes me want to try cosplaying again (no I am not a cute girl... but still!).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CTH22



Joined: 15 Feb 2022
Posts: 1
PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2022 3:14 pm Reply with quote
Yttrbio wrote:
blooperboy wrote:
I think part of the reason some people (myself included) get defensive on people who criticize the show based on the first two episodes is that those criticisms are more based in the genre than in the series itself. I can certainly get behind a conversation about how many works targeted towards teen boys tend to flatten their female characters and rely on old tropes and plot devices. But at the same time, I don't go into their romance novel section and say that 'Ravished by Moonlight' is a bad story because it only focuses on the woman's emotions and uses the male 'love interest' to just move the plot along. Because thats generally what I came there for.
I don't think the MPDG description is saying it's a bad story. As you say, sometimes people want a fantasy. But then why get defensive about someone saying "this looks exactly like a fantasy"?


When people say it’s a fantasy they don’t actually mean it’s a fantasy. Because all stories are fantasies. When they say it’s a fantasy they mean it as a negative. Which is silly nitpicking.

It’s like asking why the story started now rather than a year ago when gogo was just a loner working on dolls. It’s a story and the fantasy is that life has some sort of structure to it.

It’s people trying to be literary critics but not really understanding what they are talking about is the just of it I guess.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Takkun4343



Joined: 19 Jul 2007
Posts: 1493
Location: Englewood, Ohio
PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2022 5:37 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
The well is poisoned from all the "blank self-insert gets adopted by an annoying Comiket-bait waifu who flirts with him for vague reasons" shows that we've gotten for such a long time, to say nothing of the people who insist the shows are so totally deep when... y'know... a show with an artistic male lead isn't good if he doesn't even have a name, you know that right?

Just because you don't remember their names, it doesn't mean the names don't exist...

But yeah, Dress-Up Darling is an awesome series and should definitely be watched by anyone remotely interested in it. And kudos to Crunchyroll for going so in-depth with the subtitles without outright replacing the on-screen text with an English equivalent! [side-eyes Platinum End]

One more thing... You think the girl from Gojo's past will ever be relevant outside of that one flashback? 'Cause I get the feeling she's gonna be.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime My Manga
Thatguy3331



Joined: 18 Feb 2012
Posts: 1790
PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2022 7:24 pm Reply with quote
This series, alongside kings ranking, is absolutely overflowing in the charisma department, not just because of it's solid visuals but just for how well Gojo and Marin have been characterized even this early on. We're like 6 episodes into this show and I can absolutely get behind them as a couple and even putting romance aside their general dynamic is really charming. I've heard good things about the manga overall so here's hoping the show stays this good for the whole run. Afterwards I'll definitely be checking out the manga.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
garfield15



Joined: 06 Apr 2009
Posts: 1515
PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2022 7:33 pm Reply with quote
NeverConvex wrote:

The unwillingness to acknowledge that this was a worrying initial setup for her character (and the attacking of anyone who worried about it -- says more about you, eh :/) is really perplexing to me, and looks a lot like "I like this thing, so it is beyond criticism or concern", which I see often enough here, but usually from a very different group of posters. Anyway, though I didn't feel this way as of Ep 2, I can certainly agree that the show has since done a good job continuing to build her up as an interesting, believable person, and am looking forward to more of this. If my Japanese were stronger, I'd probably even pick up the manga.


IMO, this is likely one of those things where people who read the source material know how things play out and don't want to see pre-emptive "attacks" on this thing they like before it has a chance to show it's true colors.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
helln00



Joined: 01 Apr 2016
Posts: 106
PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2022 11:58 pm Reply with quote
Its a show with great charm, just a pretty rough start, though I had hopped the anime could have smoothed out some bits, like Juju's introduction
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group