Forum - View topicINTEREST: Viewer Debates Resurface Arounds Alleged Japan-Korea Colonization Allegory in Ranking of K
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Aster Selene
Posts: 68 |
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The part that blatantly gives away the fact it's meant as a Korean allegory for me is the part where they say the Gyakuza got their "bitterness" from having been invaded all of the time. That part of Korea's history and the fact Korean people have a lot of grievances about it is super well-known to the point there's even a common idiom that literally translates to "an expression like you'd just lost your country" (referring to someone being devastated or upset).
The part about calling the Gyakuza "ungrateful" and spreading propaganda that their oppressors were doing anything but helpful things to "civilize" them is the precise Japanese imperialist playbook (we gave you railroads and healthcare!), which of course conveniently omits the part where they attempted cultural genocide and sent thousands of comfort women to be raped. Even that comment about "saying more about the person who sees the allegory than it says about the work" reeks of the usual hyper-nationalist sentiment because a very common tactic used to dismiss Korean complaints is claiming that they keep beating a dead horse and we all want to move on (read: scrub it from the textbooks and pretend it never happened). If it's a coincidence, that would be a hell of an accident. |
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EmEmpty
 It...it's not like I post for you or anything!Posts: 1 |
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Well this is really disappointing to learn, though not exactly surprising. I've really enjoyed the anime, but how Gyakuza was handled left a bad taste in my mouth absent any specific historical context, and felt totally out of place given the themes of the series.
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sjk9000
Posts: 23 |
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I'm hardly an expert on the historical side of this equation, so I can only examine the situation based on what the story itself is saying. And in the story, the relationship between Houma and Gyakuza is depicted as a two-way alliance-- the Houma people lost their homes to war, so the Gyakuza people welcomed them into their country, and in exchange where taught magic and technology. It's hard to read it as a defense of colonization, since no actual colonization occurred. Of course, that's just strictly looking at the text and ignoring any possible subtext.
That aside, it does leave a bad taste in my mouth to have any group of people, even a fictional one, being described as culturally prone to deception and betrayal. And from a narrative perspective, I think it's kind of lame that the series goes to lengths to give all the antagonists multiple facets to their characters, only to reveal that the ur-villian of the story is a bunch of nameless nobodies who are just naturally biased towards being evil. |
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Blanchimont
 Posts: 3448 Location: Finland |
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This quote shows, unfortunately, that denialism of Japan's more than shady past still lives strong there... Also a reminder why we shouldn't forget history lest those who seek to corrupt it may win. |
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ThatMoonGuy
Posts: 364 |
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This is the kind of thing that happens when a country refuses to properly face its historical crimes and instead justifies it with some pseudo-historical gibberish. Sadly, however, the interests of some people will keep being maintained as long as they remain where they are so I'm not too hopeful for Japan to start doing its homework.
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xxmsxx
 Posts: 564 |
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Exactly. You bet people are gonna try to say something like "You are reading too much into it!" even though Japan LOVES discussing the Korean colonial experience in the exactly the narrative you have described. If they are really revisionist, it would be a lot easier to talk about Taiwan but no, it needs to be Korea every time. |
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ThinksTooMuch#934809
Posts: 16 |
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What 1 random person says on the internet hardly shows anything.. I have spoken about this same exact topic before with a historian of Japan who actually showed quite the opposite; that being that historical revionism is hardly normal but only defended by a small minority and you dont have to take my word for it because Standford University has published an exact paper on this which confirms this: 'A comparative study begun in 2006 by the Asia–Pacific Research Center at Stanford University on Japanese, Chinese, Korean and US textbooks describes 99% of Japanese textbooks as having a "muted, neutral, and almost bland" tone and "by no means avoid some of the most controversial wartime moments" like the Nanjing massacre or to a lesser degree the issue of comfort women. The project, led by Stanford scholars Gi-Wook Shin and Daniel Sneider, found that less than one percent of Japanese textbooks used provocative and inflammatory language and imagery, but that these few books, printed by just one publisher, received greater media attention. Moreover, the minority viewpoint of nationalism and revisionism gets more media coverage than the prevailing majority narrative of pacifism in Japan. Chinese and South Korean textbooks were found to be often nationalistic, with Chinese textbooks often blatantly nationalistic and South Korean textbooks focusing on oppressive Japanese colonial rule. US history textbooks were found to be nationalistic and overly patriotic, although they invite debate about major issues' Sources: https://news.stanford.edu/pr/2014/pr-memory-war-asia-040414.html https://www.nippon.com/en/in-depth/a00703/
Please see my comment above. You know from actually academic papers about this issue. I don't care what you want to believe but the academic evidence paints the revisionism debate in quite a different light... Maybe next time only say something if you actually know what you are talking about. I don't know the particular case here but it factually does not allign with academic evidence to accuse of revisionism being widespread in Japan when academic research shows the exact opoosite and I am gonna call it out this time because I am tired of people trying to perpuate this harmful anf stupid notion with no actually basis. Last edited by ThinksTooMuch#934809 on Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:23 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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FeelMyBlade
Posts: 142 |
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Is this an actual controversy like the Maruta Shiga thing from My Hero Academia where foreign territories are dropping the series or is it just a few people on Twitter complaining? It seems more like the latter if the linked websites source are a few Tweets that have only like 26 likes to them.
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nasmas
Posts: 2 |
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First, thanks for the links, really interesting material. Second, I think you missed an important part for this particular discussion. Quotes from your second link: "Japanese history textbooks do not provide students with a detailed accounting of Japanese colonial rule, particularly in Korea." "One clear lacuna is the almost complete absence of accounts of Japanese colonial rule in Korea." |
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Replica_Rabbit
 Posts: 354 Location: Portland |
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Just a feel tweets it seems, but I could see this blowing up Man, this gives me vibes of "Slaving wasn't that bad, you living in America now". That makes my blood boil and if a show had that I probably would drop it. Why is it so hard for people to understand, it was bad and it shouldn't be sugarcoated |
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Blanchimont
Posts: 3448 Location: Finland |
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@ThinksTooMuch#934809
Doesn't change the fact that instances of revisionism and denialism ought to be called out and never let go unchallenged whenever and wherever they are encountered. Like here. |
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luisedgarf
Posts: 656 Location: Guadalajara, Mexico |
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To be completely fair, Koreans were not the only people who live in such type of homes in ancient times, as many Native American tribes also a similar kind of housing, and the same could be applied to them, as you can see here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wigwam |
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Blanchimont
Posts: 3448 Location: Finland |
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Those are not wigwams, neither the photo nor screenshot. Also, wigwams were mostly not permanent, and were usually built on cone-shaped wooden pole support. The wikipedia article you linked explains it quite clearly. |
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ThinksTooMuch#934809
Posts: 16 |
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Never did I say it should be but you were saying something very different in your earlier comment that being, perpuating a gross overgeneralization that does not only have no basis but actually conflicts with academic evidence/consensus. Out of curiosity I did check some of the comments on either article and on the 2nd article saw no nationalistic comments at all, only people basically saying its farfetch'd. The first article however seems to have some racist comment about Japan, perhaps opposite as well about Korea(I dont know didn't read much of it). I think its likely that these kind of things might just unfortunately attract unsavory people from either side(Korea or Japan) because like we can conclude from the academic evidence the general populas generally acknowledges it and it is thus that vocal minority that is perhaps more prone to comment on stuff like this. Even though on the second article I saw no such comments at all. As to my own opinion in this matter I dont think its that clear cut... Colonialism everywhere in history somehwat follows the same pattern of trying to justify it by saying we are helping/'civilizing' those people this is not a unique case to the korean occupation or imperial Japan for that matter. And as someone else pointed out the houses don't seem to be unique to korea either. Perhaps the author is portraying colonialism as positive(arguable), but I dont see how it is somehow is a 1:1 mimic of the korean-occupation since it mostly seems to take general trends of colonolialism(justifying it as 'civilizing' or 'helping' people) and apply it to a specific real life example of it while it just as well could have been based on something else. For instance RoK so far has had a lot of western mythos/fantasy inspiration. Who is not to say it was somewhere based on that? Unless I see more concrete evidence I can't help but be sceptical. |
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ThinksTooMuch#934809
Posts: 16 |
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The MHA controversy even now still is strange to me. It would have be one thing if they were a hero, but they were literally a villain of all things. |
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