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This Week in Anime - Is Gundam 00's Craziness a Bug or a Feature?


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tintor2



Joined: 11 Aug 2010
Posts: 1820
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2022 8:49 am Reply with quote
Allelujah's dynamic was so insane that I was sad when he was demoted to extra.

About romance it's kinda heavy in comparison to other Gundams but I think it's better than Tomino's writing where the love mostly involves sudden infatuation due Newtype flashes. Setsuna also has some rivals but I don't who is the best. Ribbons really feels like an Amuro homage with even similar Gundams while Mr. Bushido... The guy's ideals of love between soldiers are kinda neat and exaggerated
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Amuro1X



Joined: 02 Sep 2009
Posts: 175
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2022 10:52 am Reply with quote
It's really weird seeing 00 talked about like it's this odd artifact when I vividly remember watching new episodes as they came out. And I'm just now realizing that was 15 years ago and I'm literally turning to dust.
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Generations



Joined: 21 Jul 2016
Posts: 204
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2022 11:32 am Reply with quote
I really enjoyed Gundam 00 in the beginning, but it goes into what I like to call Gundam Stupid halfway through -- where it feels like it just wants to tick off a bunch of checklists on things that were in other Gundams, including the terrible ones, then slaps them all haphazardly into itself until it becomes a giant clusterfrick of nonsense by the end that has nothing to do with its original conception.

Also Bring Stabity was a name. With all the names of those candy-coloured space-babies, I'm surprised at any point we were supposed to take anything seriously.
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TranceLimit174



Joined: 21 Jul 2004
Posts: 958
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2022 11:57 am Reply with quote
I actually...don't have much to add because TWIA may as well have been living inside my head. This surprisingly hit on all the specifics (Sumeragi = Misato, the Beerfest twist, etc.) that completely turned me off to Gundam 00. I ultimately was able to turn my brain off and enjoy it as popcorn entertainment cause damn is it gorgeous, but the story is awful. It takes itself way too seriously for me to buy into the absurdity of its plot twists. Also, I straight up blocked Saji & Louise out of my memory, so thank you for reminding me how much I hate those two and their stupid forced drama arc...

Twas fun to go back and revisit the mess that was 00.


P.S. sadly, I'm guessing NetFlix Ultraman S2 won't be covered on TWIA. I understand why, but still bummed.
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Gem-Bug



Joined: 10 Nov 2018
Posts: 1206
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2022 12:08 pm Reply with quote
Ironically, I've been re-watching random episodes of both 00 and Seed/Destiny lately. I first saw Seed as it was airing on YTV in the early/mid 00's(not a pun), and now it just kind of makes me cringe. I first saw 00 back in 2013, and really enjoyed it. Still do; sure it has some silly stuff, and the 2nd season is definitely weaker than the first, but all together(movie included) it's one of the better series in the franchise that I've seen. Leagues above Seed as far as I'm concerned. The Canadian dub cast is super great and memorable, too(Although I just noticed on this recent viewing that Scott McNeil also voices That One Black Guy, Daryl Dodge, and I unfortunately cannot unlearn this fact Confused ).
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meiam



Joined: 23 Jun 2013
Posts: 3442
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2022 12:21 pm Reply with quote
If we only consider 00 first season, and don't touch the dumbsterfire that is S2, 00 is pretty is a decent show. It's biggest weakness is that it tries to do way too much stuff, you could easily cut out a lot of character (Saji and Louise are pointless until S2 where they're stupid and pointless). Some of the side story also just detract from the overall narrative, like the child super soldier who all turn out to be kinda terrible at being soldier, that one feel like they had to have it in to have their newtype side of the story. Marina story is also pretty weak since its impossible to feel sorry for her nation (she is still better than Relena "we'll do nothing, that'll show them!"). But otherwise the mech are cool and varied, and while the initial setup is very similar to wing it does do very different things.

It's also very different from modern anime with plenty of episode being essentially stand alone.
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TheBeastAR



Joined: 19 Aug 2021
Posts: 27
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2022 2:28 pm Reply with quote
Gundam 00 was a bad show? I always thought it was pretty good.
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pengin senshi
Space Cowboy



Joined: 22 Dec 2017
Posts: 34
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2022 4:18 pm Reply with quote
Generations wrote:
I really enjoyed Gundam 00 in the beginning, but it goes into what I like to call Gundam Stupid halfway through -- where it feels like it just wants to tick off a bunch of checklists on things that were in other Gundams, including the terrible ones, then slaps them all haphazardly into itself until it becomes a giant clusterfrick of nonsense by the end that has nothing to do with its original conception..


"Gundam Stupid". Huh, I can't believe I couldn't think of a term that's so simple, yet effective!

Even with season one's slow buildup (and already a recap episode in the first half...), and then Sci-Fi channel restarting the season (I think), I was pretty high on season one. I get Gundam politics, interesting choice of having "only four" Gundams and the season as a whole feeling a little more complex than other AU series? (Maybe not, but if felt that way at the time, at least...).

And then season two comes along and follows a lot of "Gundam Stupid". The movie still leaves me scratching my head sometimes, and Feldt's hair gets worse with each iteration, but I still hold Gundam 00 just behind Iron as my favorite. (Ugh, even with "Gundam Stupid" in Iron-blooded's season 2, as well). And maybe it's all because it's Gundam Wing round 2.
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Mr. sickVisionz



Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 2173
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2022 4:31 pm Reply with quote
I love Gundam 00. The second half gets kinda loopy and crazy but that didn't take away from how good the first half was or my memories of the series overall. Honestly, I can't name any 50 episode Gundam series that isn't they could remove 12+ episodes and it'd be way better, whether that's Wing, Destiny, Orphans, or Seed. Some go crazy, others just go boring. Maybe Destiny gets a pass because it starts kinda bat shit crazy and stays bat shit the whole time.

Anyways, woot woot Gundam 00. Was also the first HD anime I watched on a HDTV. My computer could barely even play it at times but it looked amazing.
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MFrontier



Joined: 13 Apr 2014
Posts: 11191
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2022 5:30 pm Reply with quote
I still enjoy 00 in its entirety.
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Replica_Rabbit



Joined: 23 Aug 2015
Posts: 354
Location: Portland
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2022 5:33 pm Reply with quote
Ok, I don't get the comparisons with 00 and Beerfest.spoiler[ In Beerfest, the two brothers were basically the same, in 00 the brothers are pretty different. The first Lockon was the older brother of the group and try to help out the other Meisters and have a cool head, while the second Lockon kept to himself mostly and was hot-headed. If First Lockon was able to survive the first season, the second season would be a lot different.] Also, isn't it more of a soap opera trope? I would think of a soap opera, way before Beerfest.
Anyway, Gundam 00 is one of my favorite Gundam shows (top 5). I love the idea of Super Robots going into a Real Robots world and everyone has to figure out how to take the overpower robots down. It has good drama, characters, world-building, and cool fights. It is a better version of Superhero movies, it is a fun ride. I also, think season 2 is good, and the movie fits with the series.
Lastly, Wing was way more out there than 00.
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LightningCount



Joined: 04 Mar 2018
Posts: 229
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2022 5:36 pm Reply with quote
I think Gundam 00 is one of the most memorable and enjoyable Gundam entries in the last 20 years. Yes, it has its share of cringe and shortcomings, but it feels the most "modern" of any Gundam to date, and its world setup and mechanical design in Season 1 are among the best in the franchise. The music is good, too.

The line from that scene with Hallelujah about bragging about one's country when it commits atrocities is actually the nugget of brilliance from that scene. Some pointed commentary there. That is a great two-part episode.

I would argue that Gundam Wing, while less "on the nose" thematically, actually had better characterization overall than Gundam 00, which felt like it put its archetypes into very neat boxes versus letting them breathe a little. The way its world unfolds ultimately is more forced that the lived-in feel and messiness of political changes you get from Wing. The conversations had more thoughtful meat to them, too, in Wing. Trowa's speech to Quatre in Wing Zero about "redundant soldiers" comes to mind and Heero's speech posing as Duo about the militarization of the colonies is another standout. And Gundam Wing's world of child soldiers and countries caught in coups and the military industrial complex and the complications of drone warfare make it a lot more layered than Gundam 00 overall. The episode where Wufei gets caught between rebels formerly in the government and a secessionist force and its leader making a deal with OZ has so much to say about the nature of interests in conflict, capped off with Sally Po's apropos "A repeat of senseless wars by senseless people!" line and reflection: “Justice. It’s become such a cheap word now. The Alliance and Oz said peace and justice were their objectives. Well, I have my own sense of justice..."

Gundam 00 is constantly compared to Gundam Wing, and the two definitely have their similarities and are both memorable entries in their own ways...but I've always felt that Gundam Wing has more meat on its bones and just feels like a more lived-in world.

I appreciate Gundam 00's macro structure, but Season 1, particularly before the arrival of the Trinities, is where it is at its best. The tripolar world deserved a 50-episode season by itself like SEED, and then Season 2 should have been less rushed and more fleshed out into a SEED Destiny for this universe. The Movie is a nice capstone, but you have to be okay with bending genres a bit. I just feel like 00 didn't get the chance to breathe that it needed, which would have helped some of its twists better and exploited its interesting premise and potential of its many characters, main and side. Graham Aker in particular is underserved.

I remember rewatching both 00 and Destiny several years back, and despite the latter having its issues, I have to say there were many moments where I felt Destiny was more fleshed out than 00. Destiny was bloated and got sloppy and repetitive, but sometimes Gundam 00, with its weird habit of having a character finish the other's sentence from miles away to move the story beats forward felt like it broke the fourth wall unnaturally to simply move things along.
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zero_chance



Joined: 14 Jul 2008
Posts: 21
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2022 5:49 pm Reply with quote
I love 00 in its entirety, including its second half and movie. In contrast to its occasionally mixed reception, I honestly find it to be the most competently directed of any of the Gundam AUs (aside from maybe Build Fighters and Build Divers - Re:Rise, which are very different animals), with the strongest narrative follow-through.

I've recently had the opportunity to espouse on this elsewhere, so it's a bit coincidental for this topic to come up now, but I enjoy being able to go at it all over again.

What I find that people miss is that 00 isn't just a typical "war is bad" story as exemplified by the franchise at large.

Instead, 00's themes extend further into the transhumanist undercurrent that also runs alongside. Its message is more along the lines that the constant cycle of war and conflict is actively holding humanity's development back.

00 owes a lot to the works of Arthur C. Clarke. Essentially, it's a near seamless merger of the typical Gundam trappings, crossed with the likes of 2001 and its novel sequels (and updating the science for the 21st century, while of course adding a heaping dose of anime spectacle). I have the inkling that that's why the AD calendar system was chosen in the first place, as a subtle nod to 2001. Gundam 00 is in some ways almost a companion piece to that novel series, as it acknowledges the numerous political and social upheavals it would have required to achieve that particular vision of the future.

spoiler[The Innovades with Veda are thus a stand-in for HAL9000. Setsuna's evolution to True Innovator status mirror's David Bowman's ascension as the "Star Child". The ELS are the Monoliths in a more visceral and seeming aggressive form. The 2001 novel series are one of the works of fiction that brought to prominence the concept of the space elevators in the first place.

And just to hammer home the Clarke connection, the stinger ending to the TV series showed the ELS awakening at Jupiter (also a key location in the novel series), accompanied by the text "Humanity's childhood ends". Childhood's End was Clarke's first novel, about a seemingly benevolent race of aliens that come to Earth and guide humanity's development towards the stars, which Aeolia Schenberg's plan forms a close parallel to, later completed by the ELS.]


00's second season and movie aren't meaningless fluff, but absolutely critical to the true nature of its narrative. The executive meddling that accompanied the second season's release muddle it only slightly.


Last edited by zero_chance on Thu Apr 28, 2022 6:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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RR529



Joined: 14 Dec 2020
Posts: 46
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2022 6:12 pm Reply with quote
Loved Gundam 00. Along with G Gundam, it's one of the two Gundam series I really got into (I think Wing was too dense for me at the age I was when it aired, and I never got to properly try SEED as Toonami moved to Saturday evenings by that time & I didn't have control of the TV during it's timeslot).

I think I mostly remember season 1, & like one of the article writers only really took notice of it because of the familiar InuYasha voices, lol.
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Gem-Bug



Joined: 10 Nov 2018
Posts: 1206
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2022 8:43 pm Reply with quote
zero_chance wrote:
I love 00 in its entirety, including its second half and movie. In contrast to its occasionally mixed reception, I honestly find it to be the most competently directed of any of the Gundam AUs (aside from maybe Build Fighters and Build Divers - Re:Rise, which are very different animals), with the strongest narrative follow-through.

I've recently had the opportunity to espouse on this elsewhere, so it's a bit coincidental for this topic to come up now, but I enjoy being able to go at it all over again.

What I find that people miss is that 00 isn't just a typical "war is bad" story as exemplified by the franchise at large.

Instead, 00's themes extend further into the transhumanist undercurrent that also runs alongside. Its message is more along the lines that the constant cycle of war and conflict is actively holding humanity's development back.

00 owes a lot to the works of Arthur C. Clarke. Essentially, it's a near seamless merger of the typical Gundam trappings, crossed with the likes of 2001 and its novel sequels (and updating the science for the 21st century, while of course adding a heaping dose of anime spectacle). I have the inkling that that's why the AD calendar system was chosen in the first place, as a subtle nod to 2001. Gundam 00 is in some ways almost a companion piece to that novel series, as it acknowledges the numerous political and social upheavals it would have required to achieve that particular vision of the future.

spoiler[The Innovades with Veda are thus a stand-in for HAL9000. Setsuna's evolution to True Innovator status mirror's David Bowman's ascension as the "Star Child". The ELS are the Monoliths in a more visceral and seeming aggressive form. The 2001 novel series are one of the works of fiction that brought to prominence the concept of the space elevators in the first place.

And just to hammer home the Clarke connection, the stinger ending to the TV series showed the ELS awakening at Jupiter (also a key location in the novel series), accompanied by the text "Humanity's childhood ends". Childhood's End was Clarke's first novel, about a seemingly benevolent race of aliens that come to Earth and guide humanity's development towards the stars, which Aeolia Schenberg's plan forms a close parallel to, later completed by the ELS.]


00's second season and movie aren't meaningless fluff, but absolutely critical to the true nature of its narrative. The executive meddling that accompanied the second season's release muddle it only slightly.


Oooh, this is some interesting stuff. Thanks for sharing!
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