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EP. REVIEW: Endo and Kobayashi Live! The Latest on Tsundere Villainess Lieselotte


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L'Imperatore



Joined: 24 Mar 2014
Posts: 821
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2023 5:42 pm Reply with quote
Tomori Kusunoki does a great job with Liese's tsun-tsun voice.
Liking the show so far. Glad to know you feel the same, Chris.
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MFrontier



Joined: 13 Apr 2014
Posts: 10946
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2023 6:43 pm Reply with quote
This series is like a tribute to tsundere's and all the ones who lost because the guy never understood them. Even the OP is basically a tsundere theme song once you understand the lyrics. And I love it!

Also it's just really nice to have more than one couple developing over the course of the show and in ways that make sense and are believable.
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Kiwi93



Joined: 08 Dec 2022
Posts: 311
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2023 7:13 pm Reply with quote
This one really surprised me, ended up liking it more than I thought I would.
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zztop



Joined: 28 Aug 2014
Posts: 642
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2023 7:29 pm Reply with quote
The best part is that the source story is complete at 2 volumes; a nice and short story to fit into 1 cour.

(There's a 3rd volume which came out last Dec that is effectively sidestory content, but I don't know if the anime will cover that too.)
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Kiwi93



Joined: 08 Dec 2022
Posts: 311
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2023 8:25 pm Reply with quote
zztop wrote:
The best part is that the source story is complete at 2 volumes; a nice and short story to fit into 1 cour.

(There's a 3rd volume which came out last Dec that is effectively sidestory content, but I don't know if the anime will cover that too.)


Wait really? Oh wow that’s really short so then the anime I’m guessing will adapt the whole thing.
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Emerje



Joined: 10 Aug 2002
Posts: 7328
Location: Maine
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2023 9:28 pm Reply with quote
This show wasn't on my radar at all, didn't realize it was even coming this season. But between the unique premise and positive reviews I gave it a shot and have been thoroughly enjoying it. I also like that everyone seems to be getting new abilities in each episode with episode 3 showing that Fiene appears be getting flashes of other story routes. Also wasn't expecting the third episode to start so heavy! Episode 3 is definitely the episode that completely won me over, the 3 episode rule was made for shows like this that start cute but you wonder if it'll be able to keep your attention, then episode 3 happens and you're hooked.

Also got to give credit to a writer than names their tsundere characters "Lies-a-lot". Perfection.

Emerje
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yurigasaki



Joined: 06 Apr 2015
Posts: 192
PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2023 12:55 pm Reply with quote
I'm a huge fan of the original story and I'd been really looking forward to seeing this adaptation ever since it was announced – unfortunately, I'm finding it to be a huge disappointment that fumbles the strengths of the original story badly enough that it completely fails to convey them, and even causes plot holes in some instances. For example;

Quote:
Given her role at the outset and the fate we're informed of, it's possible the originally-written Liese intended to be a genuinely cruel bully who existed to be defeated and disposed of for the protagonist's benefit by the end of the game. But the villainess-isekai genre didn't take off because fans regarded characters like that at face value, and the Liese we see here is more robust through the interpretation of fans like Kobayashi, who know in their hearts that the haughty rival only acts the way she does to conceal her true affections.


This is actually not the case at all. There is no difference between the Liese of the 'main' story and the way she was 'originally written' – Kobayashi knows Liese so well because of a companion fandisk to the original MagiKoi that allows the reader to see Liese's diary. Everything she says and deduces about Liese is 'canon' to MagiKoi and is based on that diary. It's also how Endo is able to analyse Liese so accurate as well – because Kobayashi made him play the fandisk before they checked out the main game together.

But the anime completely cuts out the fandisk and doesn't bother to establish what a tragic character Liese is – so the emotional beat of Endo and Kobayashi being so desperate to save her is much less effective.

I get that I sound like a totally overzealous obnoxious fan lol but I was so looking forward to seeing this story animated and it has landed with such a flop. I won't be following the show past this episode, but if anyone else is enjoying it I really recommend checking out the manga – it's a much better version with a lot more depth and much better art.
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Animegomaniac



Joined: 16 Feb 2012
Posts: 4070
PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2023 7:11 pm Reply with quote
yurigasaki wrote:
I'm a huge fan of the original story and I'd been really looking forward to seeing this adaptation ever since it was announced – unfortunately, I'm finding it to be a huge disappointment that fumbles the strengths of the original story badly enough that it completely fails to convey them, and even causes plot holes in some instances. For example;

Quote:
Given her role at the outset and the fate we're informed of, it's possible the originally-written Liese intended to be a genuinely cruel bully who existed to be defeated and disposed of for the protagonist's benefit by the end of the game. But the villainess-isekai genre didn't take off because fans regarded characters like that at face value, and the Liese we see here is more robust through the interpretation of fans like Kobayashi, who know in their hearts that the haughty rival only acts the way she does to conceal her true affections.


This is actually not the case at all. There is no difference between the Liese of the 'main' story and the way she was 'originally written' – Kobayashi knows Liese so well because of a companion fandisk to the original MagiKoi that allows the reader to see Liese's diary. Everything she says and deduces about Liese is 'canon' to MagiKoi and is based on that diary. It's also how Endo is able to analyse Liese so accurate as well – because Kobayashi made him play the fandisk before they checked out the main game together.

But the anime completely cuts out the fandisk and doesn't bother to establish what a tragic character Liese is – so the emotional beat of Endo and Kobayashi being so desperate to save her is much less effective.

I get that I sound like a totally overzealous obnoxious fan lol but I was so looking forward to seeing this story animated and it has landed with such a flop. I won't be following the show past this episode, but if anyone else is enjoying it I really recommend checking out the manga – it's a much better version with a lot more depth and much better art.


So you're complaining the anime made "Liese's Memoir", the game Kobayashi made Endo play prior to their main attempt at the game... she gives him that game at the end of episode 1..., Canon rather than Fanon by making it an "Official Fan Disk"? Episode 2 has the gory details and Endo's reaction to it.... and then Kobayashi tells Endo that not only does Liese dies horribly in most of the paths but that most of the characters have a bad ending of their own, "especially Baldur who ends up dying in most of the routes".

The anime/Kobayashi spells out that the only time everyone survives is the "reverse harem route".

Endo: "Is that really a happy ending? Everyone falls for Fiene and she leads them all on? But that can only lead to an ugly mess? How is that good for the kingdom?"

So the two of them make a pact to not just save Liese but Baldur and the rest as well.... they're aiming past the Reverse Harem ending where everyone lives, the OTP + Pair the Spares ending that the game creators didn't bother to make.

Or is the problem the reviewer was trying to make Liese into something she wasn't at all in order to fit this series into a trend it was never part of to begin with?

Regardless, I'm a sucker for concepts that delve into the heart of storytelling, worldbuilding and fictional characters.... I don't know anything about the source material and I aim to keep it that way but the series itself already answered my question about "save states" though it handwaved moving the special game from the club room to Kobayashi's home.... though seeing another human trying to access the world by playing the game is suggestive of a number of things.

What ingenious uses of POV though; Endo and Kobayashi have to watch the game through primary characters but can only directly talk to secondary character Siegwald and are trying to save Liese and Baldur because why not. The two of them can't control POV characters.... "autoplay" is also suggestive... but they can communicate to them when Siegwald is present.
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Animegomaniac



Joined: 16 Feb 2012
Posts: 4070
PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2023 8:52 am Reply with quote
Am I the only one paying attention? Kobayashi set the game to "autoplay", they have no control over what MC Fiene chooses or does.

I'm not going to split hairs between nobility and royalty and I don't have to in Fiene's case because... I'll say it anyway... right now she's neither of them. In this world, you can't marry into nobility but you can marry your way out of it. "But doesn't that lead to massive amounts of inbreeding?" As if the number of people named "Riefenstahl" being betrothed to people named "Riefenstahl" wasn't enough of a clue.

Baldur being willing to throw all that away is equal mix of "Well? "What? and "Wow". I mean, he's not the Prince nor is he a main member of the Riefenstahls... that name is bothering me, Riefenstahl. "We can choose any name in the world." "How about Goebbels?" "Um, why?" and I'm saying the same now: "Riefenstahl? Um, why?" ... but being a noble does seem to be the most he has going for him.

I'm not going to say more about Fiene's "Princess Tea Parties" but I've expected a certain relationship to pop up... starting with Fiene's lack of a family name.... which looks to be the next episode. Interestingly, Kobayashi knows what will happen but I'm not too sure about Endo. What a great time for Sieg to come to the castle, just in time for everyone to... meet and get to know one another.

I'm expecting lots of colorful color commentary.
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absent
Subscriber



Joined: 15 Dec 2022
Posts: 30
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2023 9:25 am Reply with quote
I think criticism of the lack of Endo and Kobayashi is fair, but I like all of these characters too much to care at this point. Didn't really detract from my enjoyment at all.

It looks like we'll be getting more of those two in the next episode anyways. But what I'm really looking forward to is the introduction of who I assume to be spoiler[Fiene's mom], who sounds delightfully chaotic.
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MFrontier



Joined: 13 Apr 2014
Posts: 10946
PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2023 9:49 am Reply with quote
Liese is so cute! Whether it be trying to invite a girl she wants to be closer with over to her family estate for the Summer or when the man she loves understands and supports her or when said man decides to just drop in so suddenly at her place just to see her. It feels like the characters need Endo and Kobyashi to translate her tsun de rais less as well.

Looks like Fiene has a serious backstory going on with her and her mom...
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DarkAudit



Joined: 17 Oct 2020
Posts: 32
PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2023 9:52 am Reply with quote
Quote:
and our two commentators who are technically playing from Fiene's point of view


They switched to Liese's POV two weeks ago. They were surprised at how powerful Fiene had become while they weren't looking.
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MFrontier



Joined: 13 Apr 2014
Posts: 10946
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2023 10:18 pm Reply with quote
How many anime moms can Sayaka Ohara voice? What a tragic romance between her and Fiene's dad though. Seems like toughness runs in the ladies of this family though. I was expecting Fiene and Liese to be half-sisters, but cousins probably works out better.

Aileen would be so proud of Lieselotte using her Villainess powers for good! I love seeing Liese and Fiene bonding and becoming closer as sisters.

Kobayashi can't be beat in that date outfit. It's nice to see their relationship deepening as their effect on the game world continues and Endo just keeps complimenting her. But Kirise and whatever his deal is will probably complicate things.

Sieg letting Lieselotte see his more vulnerable side! You love to see it.
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Thesarum



Joined: 25 Mar 2022
Posts: 391
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2023 6:14 pm Reply with quote
Kobayashi and Endo coming clean about The Witch of Yore (which, let's be honest, is a suitably dumb main villain name) and their reasons for having not done so previously was good. Though it genuinely does feel like everything they've done up until now might be for nothing, especially if they hadn't had this opportunity to explain things at least a little to Seig and Fiene. (Of course, on a meta level we probably know better). Will be interesting to see where bringing Fiene under the "gods" guidance will take things. If she's the one who has the power to defeat the witch, it's probably going to come in very useful.

It's also good to get a bit of insight into quite why Liese is a "tsun de rais" too - rather than it just being a character archetype and "she's just like that". She's taken to heart the instruction never to let her feelings show, and is overcompensating. But now it's become habitual and she can't quite manage to tone it down even when she wants to.
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meruru



Joined: 16 Jun 2009
Posts: 470
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2023 6:48 pm Reply with quote
Can we discuss how Fiene was apparently just eating an entire chicken for lunch in episode 6?
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