Forum - View topicPR: Japanese Government Establishes “Creative Industries Internationalization Committee” to Strength
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CarlFox
Posts: 4 |
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Here's Danny Choo's first post on Culture Japan in regards to the committee. He's also asking for feedback on what they discussed, so he can take that back for further review.
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Fronzel
Posts: 1906 |
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I would say that Japanese anime companies charging Japanese prices in other countries is not going to proliferate anything.
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mdo7
 Posts: 6253 Location: Katy, Texas, USA |
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It looks like Japan is sort of "scared" of South Korea and the Korean wave overtaking Japan's pop culture (not that it's a bad thing) outside of Asia, South Korea has became the focus of attention for the last few years because of K-dramas and K-pop. I'm glad to see Japan is doing something to help gain it's relevance to the world. But they can do more:
-Japan should export more J-dramas outside of Asia, I can find 7 J-dramas on Crunchyroll. Where on CR, Hulu, and Dramafever I can find like 150+ K-dramas available for me to watch whenever. Now Dramafever announced that they're going to stream the live-action version of Itazura na Kiss ~ Love in Tokyo in US for the first time. That's a good start, but Japan should export more J-drama, if we can watch K-drama, then what makes J-drama any different? Come on, K-drama popularity helped other dramas from other part of Asia got subbed and stream in US like I can watch Taiwanese drama, and Singaporean drama on Dramafever. Japan can do the same, it'll help Japan a lot if they export J-drama. I also want Tokusatsu to be stream on Dramafever and Crunchyroll, Sentai and tokusatsu fans already said "if people can watch K-drama, then how is Tokusatsu be any different?", I agreed with them I don't view Toku any different from K-drama, they're shows from a foreign country and we can handle it. I want Saban and Toei to put Super Sentai, and Kamen Rider subbed, uncut, and stream on Crunchyroll and Dramafever for Tokusatsu fans to watch. -Jpop: now because K-pop is now popular around the world, I been wondering could J-pop replicate the same success like K-pop outside of Asia? I think Japan could do the same like South Korea when it comes to exporting to J-pop. RIAJ and various Japanese label companies should upload J-pop MVs on Youtube and watch J-pop getting the same popularity as K-pop. If Japan did that long time ago, then EXILE, Arashi, and Kat-tun would probably have the same level of popularity as K-pop boy band like Super Junior, SHINee, B2ST, and U-KISS. EXILE would've done concert in North America, Europe, and South America if their music video have gotten popular outside of Asia. Super Junior are going to have their 5th Super Show and South America is on their list of concerts. AKB48 and Morning Musume probably would've gotten fanbases (not only to anime fans) outside of Asia on the same level as Girls Generation and Wonder Girls if their music video had been uploaded on Youtube. This is why South Korea had beaten Japan in term of pop culture export, there's more K-pop fans then J-pop fans outside of Asia. Maybe this is the right time for Japan to take lesson from the K-pop explosion and see if J-pop could maybe emulate K-pop in term of music and dancing choreography (I mean look at the dancing choreography in K-pop and compare that to AKB48 dancing). Not only that, artists like Koda Kumi, Miliyah Kato, Kana Nishino could probably break it big in the western market if their music video had they been on Youtube. Now I question if AKB48 and Morning Musume should have Japanese-American/Japanese-British/Japanese-Australians singers that can sing in Japanese and English if they want to market to western audiences (meaning AKB48 and Morning Musume will need to have it's own "Jessica Jung" and "Tiffany Hwang" in the group). If Japan can do this, then Japan itself may have it's own "hallyu". Last edited by mdo7 on Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:54 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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RyanSaotome
 Posts: 4210 Location: Towson, Maryland |
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You mean all of that slutty dancing? No thanks, J-pop dances are far preferable. Anyway, it would never happen. Idols thrive on being "pure", and if they started to dance like sluts they'd lose their fanbase. |
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mdo7
Posts: 6253 Location: Katy, Texas, USA |
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Slutty dancing? Have you ever watch a K-pop MVs or know how to dance, FYI, a lot of the dancing in K-pop take dancing up the next level. How are they slutty? I'm sorry are you jealous that South Korea is beating Japan in music or something? Because a lot of the dance I've seen in K-pop outdone both US and Japan dancing choreography (trust me, I've done a lot of dancing for a long time and I have many experience in dancing) Are you even aware K-pop artists and groups are beating J-pop on the Oricon charts. When was the last time AKB48 or Morning Musume pulled off a dance this challenging like this or this. K-pop singer/groups are also idols, and just like J-pop idols they're not allow to date for a certain time, it can end up in a scandal if they get involved in a relationship. I also like to add that Arashi is the only J-pop boyband that have dancing choreography that is on par to K-pop boyband. I'm not sure when was the last time a J-pop boyband ever pull off a dance like this or this or even this dance from B2ST. A K-pop group, After School, is the only K-pop group I know that has a "graduation" system very much like AKB48 and Morning Musume and yet After School has better dancing that would put AKB48 and Morning Musume to shame. I'm not hating or looking down on AKB48 and Morning Musume, if J-pop want to replicate the same success outside of Asia like K-pop, then a lot of the J-pop group will have to make their dance on par or outdo K-pop group dancing, meaning their dance will have to take it one step further. A lot of member of AKB48 are big fans of K-pop and I think some of them have admitted they want to be more like K-pop idols in term of wanting to focus more on vocal and dancing choreography. Geez, even Akimoto Yasushi said this:
See even Akimoto was even blown away by K-pop too. Now I'm wondering if AKB48 should not only make their dance on par with Girls Generation, KARA, and After School. Should AKB48 have Japanese-Americans/Japanese-British/Japanese-Australian singers that can sing in both English and Japanese so if AKB48 are thinking about doing an English-language album in the future, I could say the same for AKB48 doing a Korean-language album, AKB48 would probably going to need a Zainichi Korean/Japanese of Korean decent that can sing in both Japanese and Korean if they want to market themselves in Korea. I also think AKB48 will probably need to either tone down or remove the schoolgirl look because that's not going to help them outside of Japan. After School don't need schoolgirl look to make themselves look good in Korea or in Japan. So I don't see problem with AKB48 going from a schoolgirl look to K-pop influenced J-pop girl group. Although AKB48 could lose some of their hardcore fans, but I think it's worth it. I like AKB48, but I think they need to tone down the schoolgirl look because that's not going to appeal outside beyond the otaku audience. The dancing can be improved on the same style as K-pop dance. I would like to see that on other J-pop group and after that, J-pop may have a chance of getting the same success like K-pop outside of Asia. |
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HeeroTX
Posts: 2046 Location: Austin, TX |
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Either your contention is inaccurate, or the Japanese industry could (rightly) speculate that (much like they think for anime) their own fans are more VALUABLE than any foreign options. From your other thread: -S. Korea is a $3.36 billion "music market" (not sure exactly what that means) -You claim that K-Pop made more than $1 billion in revenue (not sure how you figure since the 3.36 is not limited to "pop" music, it's not even limited to KOREAN music) -Your article claims $177 million in "export music", I assume this is exports to all countries, either way it's definitely not USA specific even if we can assume it ONLY factors "the West" (and excludes Asia) For comparison: -In 2012 Japan posted $4.3 billion in SALES (even if the Korean "music market" = sales (doubtful based on sales figures) Japan is still $1 billion larger than Korea (overall)) http://www.japantimes.co.jp/culture/2013/04/11/music/japan-outranks-u-s-in-recorded-music-sales/#.UWcQJbWG2Qp http://ph.news.yahoo.com/japan-us-top-global-recorded-music-sales-080346271.html (notes the rankings in 2010, including Korea's #21 ranking) -In 2010 (easiest numbers to find, sorry), Japan was 25% of the WORLD music sales (in raw dollars) the US was 22.5%. (Korea is not in the top 10) So, to put that in perspective, ASSUMING your figures above were ONLY K-Pop (as noted, they are not): * $3.3 bil (Korean market) * $177 mil ("exports") Korean sales = $3.5 billion (rounded up, including exports) Japanese sales = $4.3 billion (without any exports at all) If the Japanese "domestic v. foreign" is in line with Korea's, even after LOSING 25% of their own market to foreign albums, Japan is still about EQUAL to Korea INCLUDING their foreign market sales. I'm not saying this as a "banzai Japan!", I'm saying Psy was big last year and KPop has a higher profile, but it's not like Korea is the "model" that "poor little Japan" needs to follow. |
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RyanSaotome
Posts: 4210 Location: Towson, Maryland |
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This is exactly what I meant by slutty dances. They focus on doing sexual kinda dances like shaking their asses and and rubbing their bodies... that would never fly among idol groups in Japan. I'd much rather have a cute dance routine than one meant to arouse. But seriously, you really don't "Get" AKB48 and other idol groups if you want them to change their image and abandon their fans. Otaku are the craziest of the crazies when it comes to buying power, with some people buying hundreds of CDs of one girl in the group to vote for her in elections. Theres no way they could make more money by getting rid of the schoolgirl and cute stuff since they would just lose all the fans that make AKB48 as big as it is. |
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mdo7
Posts: 6253 Location: Katy, Texas, USA |
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@HeeroTX: I'm already aware of that. But that's not what I mean by Japan is beating South Korea, K-pop has done numerous achievements that J-pop couldn't do:
-K-pop was the first time an Asian pop broke the language barrier at a massive level worldwide. I mean J-pop has also done that but not at a massive level like K-pop did. Why did K-pop succeed when J-pop failed? Youtube and social media, that's why K-pop got a massive popularity around the world. If Japanese record labels had use Youtube to upload J-pop MVs, then it would've been the Japanese wave instead of the Korean wave. It's true we do have program to watch J-pop like J-Melo on NHK World, but J-pop would've been more popular if Youtube and social media was utilize hence why South Korea has now gotten more attention for the last few years. -There are more K-pop concerts outside of Asia then J-pop concerts. Sure we have J-pop concerts at anime conventions and some J-rock bands do world tour like X-Japan, Boris, and a J-pop artist Ayumi Hamasaki has done concerts in Europe (she never done one in USA). But for K-pop, ZE:A was the first K-pop (and the first East Asian pop band) to have performed in the Middle East specifically Dubai EDIT: Correction, Seo In Young and Nine Muses was the first K-pop singers to perform in the Middle East ZE:A performed later. No J-pop band or singer I know has ever performed in the Middle East. Also I like to add that I never seen Japan ever done a concerts similar to SMTown concert or United Cube concert or Music Bank world tour. As I said, J-pop could've been popular on the same level as K-pop worldwide if Japan had used Youtube to give J-pop attention. Super Junior Super Concert 5 world tour is one of the biggest concert tours in the history of K-pop and the largest in South America. Again I never seen J-pop specifically EXILE having concerts outside of Japan and on the same level as Super Junior. -Even foreign policy experts and politicians even acknowledge K-pop and hallyu. Like for example, Peru's vice president said K-pop played a important role for strengthening economic ties between Peru and South Korea. Also because of K-pop popularity in South America, Latin America, and Mexico, it led to a creation of the annual Latin America K-pop competition. Hugo Swire from the British Minister of State from the Foreign and Commonwealth Office talked with Korean diplomats stating that "Korean music has gone global". President Obama even acknowledge the hallyu when he gave a speech at a Korean university. and this was before the Gangnam style went viral. I never seen J-pop getting this acknowledgement from politicians and foreign policy experts. -K-pop has gotten more media coverage around the world then J-pop did. K-pop was even talked about on the History Channel with Tiffany of SNSD talking about K-pop, another proud achievement for K-pop, I wish a J-pop artist would've been on a History Channel talking about J-pop. Also BBC has been doing a lot of coverage of K-pop like they interviewed T-ara's Hyomin, BBC had also showed the documentary on a k-pop group, 9muses. This last one will blow you away and it'll shock every J-pop fans on this forum, BBC and South Korea's main TV network KBS has now teamed up to co-produce a documentary on K-pop for the UK and around the world, and it looks like BBC could show a K-pop concert in the UK for the first time if that was to happen. When was the last time a Japanese TV channel and a western Tv channel team up to make a documentary on J-pop? Not one!!! Because of this collaboration between BBC and KBS, this could probably make K-pop mainstream in the UK. Given that the BBC has those big screen LED TV all over cities in UK, if BBC broadcast a K-pop concert all over UK including on the BBC big screen, K-pop could become big, like mainstream big. I have noticed that K-pop is now getting more attention and well-known in the UK particularly in London whereas there's K-pop parties. 
As I said, J-pop was never able to reach this type of achievement that K-pop did for the world. K-dramas have a lot of audiences outside of Asia. Because of the K-drama popularity, it allowed other dramas like from Taiwan, Singapore, and Hong Kong to be subtitled and streamed for non-Asian audiences. Japan only export few J-dramas to the west which attracted criticisms from anime fans that are fans of Asian dramas. I'm not looking down at Japan, I'm just telling the sad grim truth about J-pop, but many anime fans agreed with me "Why didn't Japan took advantage of the Korean wave to export J-dramas and J-pop outside of Asia? Why didn't Japan use it soft power to do more then just export anime/manga, they could've exported J-dramas and J-pop, and Japan would be having it's own 'hallyu' like South Korea is having now?" I can imagine how many J-pop artists are watching K-pop taking over the world and feeling upset why didn't Japan didn't take advantage of K-pop popularity and use it's soft power to give J-pop a shine on the world. I do think artists like Koda Kumi, Namie Amuro, Miliyah Kato, Kana Nishino, EXILE, Kat-Tun, and AKB48 would probably getting the same level of popularity around the world like K-pop artists and groups like SNSD, Super Junior, SHINee, G. Na, Ailee, B2ST, and B.A.P if Japan had done the same way South Korea did. Again, this is what I mean by South Korea is beating Japan when it comes to Pop culture export.
And AKB48 looking like a schoolgirl is still sexual arousal, how's that any different? Also, these are probably the same type of Otaku that probably fall in love with SNSD (they probably look at Yoona the same way as any member of AKB48), and other K-pop music and if you didn't read my previous message carefully, K-pop girl group with "slutty dance" have topped Oricon charts in Japan beating J-pop artists doing cute dances. So I don't think they wouldn't mind if AKB48 change their image. Beside even members of AKB48 have said they want to be like K-pop artists rather then pandering to some certain group of people like otaku. I don't need to change AKB48, but I think AKB48 may like to go beyond otaku given how K-pop is getting more popular around the world and proving how Asian pop can go outside of Asia to a western audience. They have performed in Taiwan, France, Russia, and USA (and an event in South Korea), but they never had a real world tour like AKB48 never perform in South America, UK, Germany, Mexico, or any other places. If AKB48 want to appeal to international audiences, they will have to change the dance to match to K-pop standard and maybe drop the schoolgirl look because the cute dance is not going to appeal to western audience, and if they lose fans in Japan (which I doubt they will), they could have massive fanbases outside of Japan. I'll give you an example of a K-pop group that has more fans outside of Korea then in Korea: U-KISS U-KISS has more fans outside of Korea then in Korea. They're under-appreciated in Korea but has gained more fans outside of Korea, they topped the Oricon Charts in Japan. I can say the same for FT Island, another K-pop band, they have more fans outside of Korea then in Korea. Last edited by mdo7 on Sun Apr 21, 2013 12:13 am; edited 3 times in total |
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P€|\||§_|\/|ast@
 Posts: 3498 Location: IN your nightmares |
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I think if Korea wants to do their thing when it comes to dancing and pop music let them do their thing, and let Japan do their thing too. If they are each popular and successful in their respective countries that's fine. It should be the international fans who determine their success outside their country of origin. Maybe K-pop is way bigger than J-pop worldwide, so what? It's not like Japan needs to compete with Korea on the international music scene. Everyone knows that the U.S. is now one of the worst exports of popular music in the world, but Americans don't care (since most of them don't even realize it). And people in other countries don't care (because they don't even pay attention to it).
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mdo7
Posts: 6253 Location: Katy, Texas, USA |
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That is true, but anime fans that are fan of J-pop and K-pop have now complain why didn't Japan put J-pop MVs on Youtube and even criticizing Japan for not taking advantage of the Korean Wave to export J-dramas and J-pop to the west. I remember Tempest on one thread said this to me:
Tempest is correct, even on one article that talk about if Japan can replicate the same success like K-pop outside of Asia the RIAJ (Recording Industry of Japan) even acknowledge Japan's local sale could be hurt by the declining population in Japan. So the only way for Japan to keep it's music industry in good shape is to export J-pop outside of Asia, that would be a good time for Japan to give J-pop the same success like K-pop outside of Asia. Also this person on Danny Choo commented this and I find his view interesting:
I agreed with the comment this dude made. Japan needs to export more then anime and manga. If K-pop can get popular outside of Asia, then what's the risk of giving J-pop the same try. Japan can export J-drama and tokusatsu shows (like Super Sentai, and Kamen Rider) on western streaming sites like Crunchyroll and Dramafever. A lot of Super Sentai and Tokusatsu fans in the west are now criticizing Japan for not using the K-drama fads to export those Japanese shows to the west where it could help Japan a lot. Yes and I agree with you about the downfall of US music industry, a lot of songs coming out in the US has already suck since 2007. There's not a lot of good artists coming out today (only a few good decent one like Bruno Mars, Taylor Swift, The Wanted, Adele, and Leona Lewis) and the music in US sound too bland, and there's not a lot of good dancing choreography where K-pop has completely taken dancing up the next level. This is why K-pop was able to gain popularity, because our music coming in the US has already suck for the last few years. I'm hoping K-pop could influence future western artists and maybe inspired Asian American artists and Asian American boy bands and girl bands to show how K-pop influenced their music. 
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HeeroTX
Posts: 2046 Location: Austin, TX |
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AKB48 had a song on a 2012 soundtrack for a film that (so far) has grossed over $450million world wide. Can any Korean act say similar? And I would again reiterate that US+Japan combined are approx 50% of the worldwide music buyers. If a J-Music is doing better in those two markets than Korean acts then they're making more poney. Period. (financially speaking) who cares how Korean acts are doing in South America and the Middle East if they're not as strong in the two biggest markets. |
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mdo7
Posts: 6253 Location: Katy, Texas, USA |
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Money is one thing, but getting a lot of fanbases, exposures, and fame around the world is another issue. I never seen AKB48 doing a English-language album or a Korean language album outside of Japan whereas K-pop group like BigBang, Girls Generation, KARA, 2NE1, and other K-pop groups do Japanese language album. So you are ignoring K-pop's impact on the world and you're not concern about Japan has already lost it's cultural superpower, that title is now belong to South Korea all because of Hallyu. It's true K-pop may not make much money like J-pop, but they get enough exposure and fame outside of Asia to make up for the money. Where AKB48 is not getting the same level of fame and exposure. It's true they make a lot of money worldwide, but they're not getting the same exposure (outside of anime fandom) like K-pop artists are getting.
Are you not even concern that AKB48 may end up being overpowered and forgotten by people who will remembered K-pop group like Girls Generations, Super Junior, SHINee, 2NE1, BigBang, U-KISS, and After School if K-pop goes mainstream around the world. If K-pop goes mainstream globally then AKB48 and other J-pop music will be left in the shadow and I don't want them to be left in the dark where K-pop artist groups get all the fame. I want AKB48 to have the same level of exposure and fame on the same level as Girls Generation outside of Asia. The last time I check, AKB48 never perform in South America and Middle East so I bet a lot of people would know more K-pop artists then J-pop artists in those part of the area. Also there's going to be more K-pop concerts in South America like U-KISS, After School, ZE:A, and Davichi are going to perform a concert in Chile and other part of South America. So you see, money from album sales is not that big concern to South Korea because concerts make money too and as long as there is fans around the world that love K-pop, those group are willing to perform for their audience outside of Asia. Doesn't AKB48 want to have the same exposure and fame outside of Japan like on the same level as K-pop artist groups are getting outside of Asia if they gain a large fanbase outside of Asia? I'm very glad to see AKB48 music videos on Youtube (so that could help them get more fans outside of Asia beyond anime fans) but I don't see a AKB48 world tour concerts like how K-pop groups are getting yet, but that would probably change. Do I want to see AKB48 doing concerts in South America, Mexico, Europe, and places in North America like in Texas, Atlanta, Chicago, and in Canada? Definitely, if K-pop artists can perform in places where AKB48 hasn't done that would give AKB48 the same level of exposure and fame as K-pop artists. It would also help AKB48 if they do a English language album, and a Korean-language album to help attract more audiences outside of Japan hence why I think AKB48 should maybe get Japanese Americans and Zanichi Korean singers in the future, so they can sing not only in Japanese but also in English and Korean. Also as I said, I think AKB48 should revamp their dance and make their dance choreography on par with K-pop dancing or take the dance up another level outdoing K-pop dance, that would make AKB48 more appealing to western audience and to show they're not behind Korea when it comes to dancing in pop music. Currently, K-pop dance has surpassed dancing in western pop and J-pop. So if J-pop wants to get relevence like K-pop, take the dance in J-pop up the next level. Last edited by mdo7 on Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:27 am; edited 1 time in total |
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RyanSaotome
Posts: 4210 Location: Towson, Maryland |
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I think it just comes down to one simple thing: The rest of the world doesn't matter to them. They've got hardcore buyers in Japan, and abandoning them to focus on the rest of the world would likely just lose them money in the long run. Its the same thing with anime and now video games... focusing on the home market is just the best way for them to succeed, due to Japans tastes being quite different from the rest of the world. You're not going to appeal to the Japanese while appealing worldwide outside of rare cases.
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mdo7
Posts: 6253 Location: Katy, Texas, USA |
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You could say the same for South Korea and K-pop, K-pop was catered to Korean but somehow that music ended up getting a lot of attention in the west and now K-pop is really big around the world. See K-pop can appeal to both Korean, Japanese, and western audience. Why can't J-pop do the same??? Now we're seeing more K-pop concerts then J-pop concerts. If you didn't even read my last comment, Japan's population is shrinking dramatically and Japan music industry is worried it may hurt their profits, I don't think keeping J-pop in Japan only is not a viable option. Japan could end up exporting J-pop outside of Japan like how South Korea did it if they have to. It could help AKB48 get the same level of fame and exposure like K-pop group. RyanSaotome, I don't understand why are you so negative, do you listen to K-pop at all? Do you listen to Japanese songs from BoA or TVXQ/Tohoshinki? Are you jealous at South Korea for their pop music gaining worldwide recognition where J-pop don't get that same recognition? Do you have something against Korean (I hope you're not racist) or K-pop? You already saw how big K-pop is around the world, what's wrong with giving J-pop the same try like K-pop. I already said in my last 2 comments, K-pop artists and groups are beating J-pop artists on the Oricon charts. Doesn't that concern you??? If K-pop can appeal to western audience at a massive level, then how could J-pop be any different if Japan replicate the same success for J-pop like Korea did for K-pop? As I said, if J-pop want to replicate the same success like K-pop, J-pop dance choreography have to be revamp to be on par like K-pop dance, or outdo K-pop dance but still retain J-pop singing flavor. Last edited by mdo7 on Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:56 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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RyanSaotome
Posts: 4210 Location: Towson, Maryland |
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I'm "Negative" because you want J-pop to just became a carbon copy of any other pop in the world, instead of keeping its own charm that makes it unique to Japan. If I wanted K-pop or any other type of normal dance pop around the world, theres plenty of that. You won't find J-Pop type of music, cuteness factor and dance routines anywhere else. The only reason K-pop is so popular in other places is because its so generic that most people probably can't even tell the difference between it and American pop.
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