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INTEREST: Xebec Animator Posts Monthly Paystub of 131,330 Yen/US$1,103


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Яeverse



Joined: 16 Jun 2014
Posts: 1135
Location: Indianapolis
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 11:20 pm Reply with quote
That seems like a reasonable pay for an entry level position that is basically work from home if they wanted it to be. It also doesnt seem that you are prevented from working on more than one show at once, and since it doesnt appear any form of higher education is needed, a pay of $1K a month with only $33 taken out for taxes (Wow in America youd have like close to 100 taken out in some states) for drawing pictures of characters someone else designed seems like a really easy and mindless task.
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Otaku Sensei



Joined: 08 Sep 2015
Posts: 17
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 11:27 pm Reply with quote
I don't think they are getting paid as much as they should, they work really hard on anime and put countless hours into it just to make about $1k a month? Compared to animators in the U.S it's significantly lower.
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Kadmos1



Joined: 08 May 2014
Posts: 13540
Location: In Phoenix but has an 85308 ZIP
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 11:48 pm Reply with quote
There's the argument on piracy/copyright infringement of anime (I am addressing just that. Manga has the same arguments) that the workers are losing money when it happens. While this is true, the animators are getting paid horrendous.
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RoverTX



Joined: 17 Dec 2008
Posts: 424
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 12:04 am Reply with quote
Going off what has been posted before how long does one expect to be at this pay level? Are these basically paid internships/apprenticeship, or is this a long haul type of deal?

My roommate worked all through out college, 10-20 hours a week, for about this level of pay, and when he got out he had enough experience to make pretty good money.
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Hoppy800



Joined: 09 Aug 2013
Posts: 3331
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 12:34 am Reply with quote
Xebec needs to pay their animators more, that's not a livable wage. This goes for other studios, paying animators below McDonalds wages is a human rights violation and an avoidable one at that if they just do the right thing.
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Яeverse



Joined: 16 Jun 2014
Posts: 1135
Location: Indianapolis
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 12:42 am Reply with quote
Hoppy800 wrote:
Xebec needs to pay their animators more, that's not a livable wage. This goes for other studios, paying animators below McDonalds wages is a human rights violation and an avoidable one at that if they just do the right thing.


1K a month is livable. Youll just have to have multiple roommates, no car, and a few other pieces of entertainment will require saving for.

I dont understand just how much people expect people doing very nonessential jobs like coloring predrawn images or making many replicates of the same thing, or making simple drawings for a tv shown to be a high paying job. Anyone could become an animator, no degree or anything is necessary, no brain power is needed either, no safety, no certification, no yearly exams are done. There is no way to justify paying them more. I would have to question a society where nurses or school teachers are paid the same or less than one who is paid for a hobby like drawing.
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switchgear1131



Joined: 14 Mar 2013
Posts: 219
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 12:46 am Reply with quote
Яeverse wrote:
That seems like a reasonable pay for an entry level position that is basically work from home if they wanted it to be. It also doesnt seem that you are prevented from working on more than one show at once, and since it doesnt appear any form of higher education is needed, a pay of $1K a month with only $33 taken out for taxes (Wow in America youd have like close to 100 taken out in some states) for drawing pictures of characters someone else designed seems like a really easy and mindless task.


For an animator, not even close. Animation is not an entry level job like flipping buggers at McDonald's, it is a highly skilled occupation that takes thousands of hours of practice to get good at.

Supposed we suggest that the minimum wage is $8 (which you should never ever get paid for such a highly skilled job). If the animator took weekends off (or any two days) as is normal standard jobs in North America the animator would need to work approximately 7 hours a day to earn that pay check. Now you might think, that is good that is about the same the average full time employee makes at minimum wage, however, such a work week for an animator is a pipe dream. With tens of thousands of frames/cuts/scenes that need to be made, re-made, adjusted and put together per episode there is no way an animator could work only 7 hours a day without there being a small army of animators for that show. That is not even factoring in crunch time which results in people in these types of jobs (and things like game development) literally sleeping at the office to meet deadlines.

All of a sudden that animator is working 10, 12, 15 hours a day maybe 6 days a week (if they are lucky and not doing 7 near the deadline). Now at 10 hours a day 6 days a week that animator is working 60 days a week, 240 a month which means that $1109 pay check means they were paid $4.6 an hour. At 15 hours under the same conditions they are making $3 an hour.

Now would you say it is fair to pay someone working at McDonald's or any other typical minimum wage, no experience really needed job $4 an hour?

No, I think not. So why would it be fair to charge a highly skilled and highly trained professional $4 an hour to work in conditions like that.

Яeverse wrote:
I dont understand just how much people expect people doing very nonessential jobs like coloring predrawn images or making many replicates of the same thing, or making simple drawings for a tv shown to be a high paying job. Anyone could become an animator, no degree or anything is necessary, no brain power is needed either, no safety, no certification, no yearly exams are done. There is no way to justify paying them more. I would have to question a society where nurses or school teachers are paid the same or less than one who is paid for a hobby like drawing.


Do you even know how much time and effort goes into making a single drawing never mind the skill needed to reproduce that image over and over exactly the same?

NO NO NO NO. NOT ANYONE CAN DO. HAVE YOU TRIED TO DO IT.

Animation is a highly skilled craft that takes years and countless hours to even be good at, never mind be professional at. An animator puts in just as much time into their craft as any of the professions you listed and they deserved to be paid for that time and effort. You obviously no absolutely nothing about animation or even creating art in general.
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Nineofclubs



Joined: 10 Jan 2010
Posts: 78
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 1:03 am Reply with quote
So they're basically adjuncts then.

My heart goes out to them.
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Keichitsu0305





PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 1:12 am Reply with quote
Яeverse wrote:


1K a month is livable. Youll just have to have multiple roommates, no car, and a few other pieces of entertainment will require saving for.

I dont understand just how much people expect people doing very nonessential jobs like coloring predrawn images or making many replicates of the same thing, or making simple drawings for a tv shown to be a high paying job. Anyone could become an animator, no degree or anything is necessary, no brain power is needed either, no safety, no certification, no yearly exams are done. There is no way to justify paying them more. I would have to question a society where nurses or school teachers are paid the same or less than one who is paid for a hobby like drawing.

WOW! BRAVO!!
You have just blantly insulted every single artists or entertainer in history without even batting an eyelid.

Seriously, calling a professional animator an "easy job anyone without a degree can do"? Let me call up the staff at the numerous animation schools around the globe including CalArts (created by animation masters from Walt Disney) and tell them to stop wasting their time.

In fact, since your icon has Haikyuu characters which apparently you drawn since its so damn easy lets tell the staff at Production I.G to layoff everyone because who needs a volleyball anime, amiright? Hell, lets call up the original manga artist and tell him to stop wasting his time drawing characters for a silly comic that probably pays for his living wages. He's not as important as nurses or " real career people " so, he and everyone else should get out of the multi-billon dollar entertainment industry.

I swear, to come in this site, an animation news outlet and have the gull to proclaim that any form of visual art is an easy, disposable hobby] that doesn't even deserve livable (in what backwater country does 1k equate to " livable ") wages is infuriating. I'm sure you meant no harm but, I will not accept such a blantat disregard of an industry that quite a few people here take seriously.
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Mr Adventure



Joined: 14 Jul 2008
Posts: 1598
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 1:22 am Reply with quote
They get paid a flat Monthly Salary? Not even an HOURLY wage? That's some serious levels of bull.

Does Japan have Labor unions? Cause it sure sounds like they need them.
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Kougeru



Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 5521
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 1:27 am Reply with quote
Hoppy800 wrote:
Xebec needs to pay their animators more, that's not a livable wage .


Tell to that US Government. The average person on disability only gets around 1000 a month.

That said, this pay isn't too bad, but he didn't specify the actual amount of hours, so it's really impossible to say. It's really going off his word that they worked "As much as possible in 24 hours". Assuming 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, and 4 weeks a month....he's making a little under $7.25 USD an hour (US federal minimum wage last I checked). From what I can find on Japanese Minimum wage, he's making about 20,000 yen higher than it.

I definitely feel it should be quite a bit higher. From what little I know about how anime is paid for, it seems to be an issue that so many industries are suffering from all over the world: The money isn't split properly.

So much money goes to specific people who don't necessarily do the hardest/best work. Seiyuu for example. While it's impossible to deny that Seiyuu (like big name actors) will get people to watch just for them, do they really deserve the majority of the budget?
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Videogamep



Joined: 10 Jun 2014
Posts: 564
Location: CA
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 1:28 am Reply with quote
Яeverse wrote:


I dont understand just how much people expect people doing very nonessential jobs like coloring predrawn images or making many replicates of the same thing, or making simple drawings for a tv shown to be a high paying job. Anyone could become an animator, no degree or anything is necessary, no brain power is needed either, no safety, no certification, no yearly exams are done. There is no way to justify paying them more. I would have to question a society where nurses or school teachers are paid the same or less than one who is paid for a hobby like drawing.


As someone with absolutely zero artistic talent, I can tell you that that's not remotely true. Good art is difficult, even for people with a natural talent for it. It requires years of practice and study to be able to draw frames at a professional level. It's not like they can just hire anyone off the street. If animation was so easy, then every show would look like UBW or One Punch Man.
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phoenixalia



Joined: 20 Dec 2011
Posts: 1408
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 1:54 am Reply with quote
@switchgear1131 and keichitsu0305

THANK YOU!

As someone who has been studying animation and works on photoshop nearly every day since I was 12 other than when I have exams, reading Reverse's posts made me nearly want to cry. I'm not trying to boast btw. I know that what I do is nothing, NOTHING compared to what most animators do. Heck, I am not even good enough to touch this Xebec Animator's toe nails.

Animation is not as easy as one might make it look, I learned that at an early age. You think copying some frames is easy? NO. You think that it's just a 'hobby' which doesn't deserve more than 1k per month. Again, A BIG FAT NO. Working on just one drawing, no, just one SKETCH, making it good takes a lot of skill and a lot of time and effort.

I'm just so pissed off right now.
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Megiddo



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 8360
Location: IL
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 2:17 am Reply with quote
Mr Adventure wrote:
Does Japan have Labor unions? Cause it sure sounds like they need them.

Of course they have labor unions. That's why the animator grunts are temporary contract workers.

That paystub is depressing. Not only is it $1100 a month, but it's $1100 with the only benefits being train fare. It's on the back of these low wage workers (and the large portion that gets outsourced to Korea) that the late night anime industry is able to stay afloat with just the tiny niche audience it has.
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DRosencraft



Joined: 27 Apr 2010
Posts: 665
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 3:23 am Reply with quote
First, it would help to know not only the hours, but the actual responsibilities. There is no doubt, art is a skill that takes a lot of practice to refine and make into something people are genuinely impressed by. but at the same time, not every artist is Van Gogh or the like. Redrawing, touch-up, etc, are complicated tasks that take effort and time. that being said, they are not trades in the leagues of teachers, construction workers, farmers, etc. Art is what this is, and art has never been a field one gets in looking to strike it rich.

As take home pay, that is a better than minimum wage salary, as that equates to an effective hourly salary of $8/hr in the US. I have a job that pays $8.15/hr, and working 40 hours a week, after taxes I take home less than $250. That's primarily due to taxes, which for federal alone is more in one week than this person apparently pays in one month. That said, this low pay is the primary driver of the push for a $15/hr minimum wage by some here in the US.

If you're living on your own, it would certainly be extremely difficult to live on that wage a month. That's why many people are forced to work multiple jobs or rely on government services. Unless your spouse is also working, forget about marriage or kids. But, if you've got at least one person to split the expenses with, even that salary becomes very attractive, particularly if you like the work.

Long and short is, there's no "winning" this argument. The execs and so forth working at these companies aren't going to slash their own pay, and even if they did, they'd likely still fall short on matching the shortfall that it would take to substantially raise the pay of all the folks at this guy's level. Which means they instead would have to raise prices. Given that even as things stand you hear folks complaining about the prices of discs be it DVD or Blu-Ray, let alone the costs of other elements such as licensing of a given series for stream/TV/merchandise, the consumer base isn't exactly primed to swallow paying more.

That leads to the idea of simply cutting back on projects. Well, that is often going to mean cutting back on staff, or the outright closure of some studios, putting those folks completely out of work in an industry that is limiting its openings to offset costs associated with the drive up in salaries. This is why growth of the industry is itself so important. If the average anime at the current output levels could match the sales of a Hollywood blockbuster, there'd be little reason for why a studio couldn't raise wages. But that's not a feasible prospect. So, we arrive at this impasse. Eventually, because that is the direction momentum is taking things, wages are going to go up for these folks to some degree. Prices will go up for their products to some degree, and there will be layoffs to some degree. The question is, are the negatives in this matter outweighed by the positives?
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