Forum - View topicAnswerman - Why Is Incest Such A Common Topic In Anime?
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar Posts: 16941 |
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Ok this is getting OT. Let's rein this back in and leave the animal kingdom debates for the Animal Planet channel. Thanks.
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Mohawk52
Posts: 8202 Location: England, UK |
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Christianity had it's share of incestous tolerance obvious to one who has ever read "The Song Of Solomon" in the King James's Bible.
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garlogan78
Posts: 171 |
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I feel like incest always has baggage that makes consent fuzzy at best, or not possible at worst. Can a child really give consent to their parent having sex with them (the person who provides for them financially and emotionally, who is supposed to raise them and teach them morals etc?) Or an older sibling and a younger one? The line between consent and abuse seems too thin...I'm not very eloquent but I read this long post somewhere a while ago talking about how power dynamics kind of destroy any notion of consent in incestuous relationships.
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noigeL
Posts: 149 |
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This site is absolutely terrible for laying into and perpetuating the Weird Japan narrative, but this is a low low for ANN and Mr. Sevakis himself. Shame. |
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jr240483
Posts: 4385 Location: New York City,New York,USA |
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at least there is someone here who agrees. but i am also a realist. you have to know that while there will be storylines of this from time to time (as in with hand shakers as well as selector infected/spread wixoss), but not rampant back when series like koi kaze, angel sanctuary and cress celestial legend had their runs. and with the constant increase of series where their not blood related, its more or less a certain that the whole genre is gonna be stamped out. i mean that was proven more or less that its going down that route when people were commenting on how oreimo's author "learned his lesson" and have his next project where the main characters arent blood related. its like the tales of people that dont want forbidden fruit but still want to eat it in a psuedo manner. |
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zrnzle500
Posts: 3767 |
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^No, non blood related siblings were common enough prior to Oreimo's disasterous ending. Even in its time, Oreimo was unusual among incest focused anime with its blood-related brother and sister, and was one of the better regarded prior to the end. The non blood related siblings in SAO (well they were cousins as you mentioned) predate Oreimo's end and I could find examples of non blood related siblings prior to it.
Certainly it was not the only one ever but in non hentai anime, series focusing on incestous relationships usually feature non blood related siblings, and I think it is almost inevitable, for TV anime at least. If it goes through to the end and they are blood related, they either have to consummate the relationship to some degree or pointedly not consummate it The former will, let's face it, gross out a number of people, and the latter will disappoint those who want to see it. Non blood related siblings give just enough pretext for it to be tolerable to a more general (though still otaku) audience. It is a thin reed that many can see through and reject but ultimately it seems to make sense for the TV producers. Now Oreimo failed so disastrously as they went with actual siblings but then proceeded to try and take both previously mentioned routes, alienating everyone. Hentai is different of course (the audience is ok with actual siblings and and actively desires it so putting in less than blood related siblings makes little sense aside from attracting those interested but still a little put off by the idea of actual siblings), and series where the sister (or brother) is not the the main ship, one still finds actual siblings too, such as Hand Shakers or One Room recently. |
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Jose Cruz
Posts: 1778 Location: South America |
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How about the argument that animation and comics due to their more abstract nature is a better environment for this kind of fantasies than photo-realistic fiction? Also, dramas, non-light novels and movies are often adapted from manga: out of the 10 top highest grossing Japanese movies in 2016, 9 were anime or live action adapted from manga, and the only original Japanese live action movie in that list was directed by Hideaki Anno. My point is that anime is not something that exists in a bubble completely isolated from the rest of Japanese culture. I think that people here don't know examples of incest in other media from Japan because they don't consume it. I don't consume a lot of Japanese movies but they look and feel very much the same as manga, as Miyazaki said: Japanese live action film has been influenced by manga to a tremendous degree where the form of direction of the film is mostly copied from the way manga panels are laid out. Animation is also heavily influenced by manga (which Miyazaki thinks it's an issue).
About 40% of Japanese college students identify themselves as otakus (http://en.rocketnews24.com/2014/02/01/are-you-otaku-roughly-40-percent-of-japanese-college-students-say-yes/). I don't think that "freak" is a correct term for that as I wouldn't think 40% of Japanese college students would identify as "freaks". The rest of the Japanese population looks down on otakus because Japan is a cookie cuter society and so obsessing over pop-culture (which is by definition what otakus are: obsessed with some pop culture element) is considered a waste of time: you should obsess over your work not over pop-culture. I would think that in most countries it's similar: people who are obsessed with pop culture are made fun of all over the world. |
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Stuart Smith
Posts: 1298 |
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Actual blood-related incest pops up in a few mainstream shows. Both Detective Conan and Jewelpet Sunshine feature brother-sister incest. In both cases it is portrayed negatively though, and one character ends up comitting suicide over the public ridicule. -Stuart Smith |
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leafy sea dragon
Posts: 7163 Location: Another Kingdom |
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Not around here--as the saying goes, "All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy." |
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relyat08
Posts: 4125 Location: Northern Virginia |
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^Not to mention not being obsessed with sports or celebrities around here is what is considered strange. People struggle to have conversations with me sometimes because all they know is sports, and I follow sporting events so little that I don't have any idea what they are talking about. A good work ethic isn't incompatible with having a heavy interest in pop culture anyway though.
But anyway, I think that work-first mentality is actually not common in most Western countries. There is some of it here in the US, but Japan and East Asia seem to be where it is really important. I've been around Europe a couple of times and outside of a few places, work seems to be like the 3rd priority for a lot of people. Especially in the south, like Italy, Greece and Spain. |
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Jose Cruz
Posts: 1778 Location: South America |
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Oh yes, my friends from Latin America are mostly only interested in four things, which are not work or either pop culture: gossiping, soccer, drinking and getting laid.
What I meant by pop culture was not everything that's different from work, I mean obsessing over stuff like RPG videogames, Star Wars, Star Trek, movies, TV shows, novels, etc. In other words "geeky stuff". I think I should post this link to a video of interviews of random people about their perception of otaku: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Od5gmTJJS6c And this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEflX5_Lxj0 Apparently, otaku are not as negatively perceived as westerners believe they are. Just a word to say when you are really into something. |
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leafy sea dragon
Posts: 7163 Location: Another Kingdom |
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Except when it first arrived in theaters, and even then it might not have been the case, Star Wars was always well-liked by the general public and there has never been any shame in openly being a Star Wars fan. Considering the breakout success of TV shows like Breaking Bad, Game of Thrones, The Big Bang Theory, and Rick and Morty (as well as the growing presence in the US of Doctor Who); and the sheer cultural force in the current Star Trek films and superhero films, the traditional stereotypical nerdy interests are arguably at an all-time high.
Also, this is the first I've heard of movies and TV shows in general being "geeky stuff" anywhere. To my knowledge, watching movies and TV shows is something people just do in general everywhere in the world. |
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Color2413
Posts: 49 |
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Regarding the Lloyd DeMause article that was linked, there has been some criticism of DeMause as being too fixated on doctrinaire Freudian psychoanalytical theories, including uncritically relying on aspects of Freudianism that modern psychiatry has debunked. It seems to me that if child sexual abuse was as thoroughly entrenched in non-Western cultures as DeMause claims (and was as traumatic), none of the adults in those cultures could possibly end up with good mental health. DeMause has also been criticized for uncritically accepting "Satanic Ritual Abuse" claims that have almost always fallen apart when investigators have taken a hard look at the evidence.
This link is enlightening: http://tort-miller.blogspot.com/2013/01/a-critique-of-lloyd-demause.html even though it wanders a bit into the weeds towards the end. |
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Shadowrun20XX
Posts: 1935 Location: Vegas |
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Tsumi Ni Nureta Futoshi (Two Soaked in Sin) is a manga that had me hooked from beginning to end. Siblings find each other and things get crazy.
I noticed John said Koi Kaze is a "classic" Holy shit no. I do own the boxset though. Not even jokingly classic. Kurenai was a sad one. People on ANN were pissed at that one. |
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Blanchimont
Posts: 3459 Location: Finland |
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Too bad the English scanlation of it is only up to volume 14(out of 18)... |
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