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Last edited by Touma on Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:23 pm; edited 1 time in total

jsc315 wrote:

... what anime does with the term loli...

Is anime doing something with the term, or is it anime fans who are doing things? Just as the fans, mostly outside of Japan I think, do various things with "moe" and "otaku," to mention just two of the words that have been debated here recently.

I do not recall ever hearing "loli" in an anime, or seeing it in the advertising for an anime.
Are shows advertised as being, or having, "loli" when they are marketed in Japan?

I do think that it is OK to like lolis, and I like them myself, in the context of the opening post which stated, I think, that nothing sexual is involved.
Personally I do not think that the word "loli" is accurate if there is no sexuality, but the OP does.

Yes, anime uses the words in various shows I've seen. Even kid's shows like Detective Conan.

Detective Conan has a scene where Conan and Ai are talking and Ai wants to meet an American FBI agent Conan knows, but Conan doesn't want her to (for plot related reasons revolving around Ai's sister) So he acts reluctant and says it's not a good idea. Ai then gets all serious with him and says "Is it because he's actually...", indicating she knows his connection to her sister, which causes Conan to freak out, but then she says "..a lolicon?" Conan groans but is relieved, and Ai goes "I was right?"

They also use shotacon later on when Sera expresses interest in Conan to Ran and Sonoko and wants to get to know him more (secretly it's because she suspect he had something to do with her brother's disappearance) and Sonoko calls her a shotacon for being so interested in Conan all of a sudden after seeing him.

TitanXL wrote:

Yes, anime uses the words in various shows I've seen. Even kid's shows like Detective Conan.

Detective Conan has a scene where Conan and Ai are talking and Ai wants to meet an American FBI agent Conan knows, but Conan doesn't want her to (for plot related reasons revolving around Ai's sister) So he acts reluctant and says it's not a good idea. Ai then gets all serious with him and says "Is it because he's actually...", indicating she knows his connection to her sister, which causes Conan to freak out, but then she says "..a lolicon?"

That's not quite the topic though. Touma asked about shows using the word "loli," not "lolicon."

In anime you hear "youjo" (very young girl) occasionally (e.g. Maria in Haganai NEXT) but I'm having a hard time remembering dialog or promotion using "loli" as a stand-alone noun in TV anime. There's a word "lolikko" (ロリッ娘) used on porn sites to refer to allegedly baby-faced actresses, and other adult-rated contexts like eroge, ero-manga, adult OVAs, but I'm not sure I've ever heard it in TV anime. (I could easily have just missed it of course. I'm curious if that lolicon character in Needless ever said it.)

Ro-Kyu-Bu! teases the idea by billing itself as a "rolling sports comedy" abbreviated to "rolispocom," which sounds like "loli" plus the genre term "spokon" (which actually doesn't mean "sports comedy" but rather "sports + konjou (guts)" / sports drama) but avoids using "loli" directly.

Personally I don't like the word "loli" much because it confusingly mixes together three separate concepts of "children," "sexy children," and "child-like adults."

I'm going to attempt to actually try and put some facts into this and maybe try and clear some things of instead of just blindly throwing out statements. While I do understand wikipedia is not a perfect source of all knowing, I'm just trying to throw some facts out there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loli

Quote:

Loli may refer to:
Lolita, a slang term commonly used to refer to sexually attractive, seductive or precocious young girls
Lolicon, a phenomenon in Japan, which encompasses fictional works with lolita characters
Lolita fashion, a fashion subculture originating in Japan
Gothic lolita, also known as gothloli or loli-goth, a subgenre of lolita fashion

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lolita_(given_name)

Quote:

Usage as a word

Lolita (given name)

is a female given name of Spanish origin. It is the diminutive form of Lola, a form of the given name Dolores.

The name is sometimes used as a term to indicate a sexually precocious girl, due to its association with the title character of Vladimir Nabokov's 1955 novel Lolita[5] and its film adaptations in 1962 and 1997

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/lolita?q=lolita

Quote:

Definition
› a young girl who has a very sexual appearance or behaves in a very sexual way

After looking into this it seems the term loli and lolita are interpreted similarly but in Japan the term lolita fashion has been around for a very long time. "lolita dolls" meaning they dress up like they are from the Victorian era (around 1600s I think) It is also a huge fashion in Japan! also based on Victorian wear.

From what I gather the definition of loli is to sexualize a young girl, and Lolita meaning a young girl who is sexual appealing or acts very sexual. Am i wrong here?

jsc315 wrote:

It may have been a different time but if you take how the book interprets "lolita" she is very well aware of what she is doing but also at that age on innocence where she is considered "jailbait" where it is very taboo for the man, since he is so much older. As to where Loli is more of just being cute and innocent. Am I wrong here?

The "bait" part of the word is key. It refers to, say, a really hot 17 year old. Her body is fully matured so one might be tempted to go after her as they would an adult woman, but her age makes doing anything with her illegal.

Touma wrote:

jsc315 wrote:

... what anime does with the term loli...

Is anime doing something with the term, or is it anime fans who are doing things? Just as the fans, mostly outside of Japan I think, do various things with "moe" and "otaku," to mention just two of the words that have been debated here recently.

I do not recall ever hearing "loli" in an anime, or seeing it in the advertising for an anime.

Touma wrote:

Are shows advertised as being, or having, "loli" when they are marketed in Japan?

All they need to do is show images of the girls.

jsc315 wrote:

From what I gather the definition of loli is to sexualize a young girl, and Lolita meaning a young girl who is sexual appealing or acts very sexual. Am i wrong here?

It depends. Facts serve to give background information about the topic (in this case lolis) as accurately as sources are able to provide. When Wikipedia says that loli may refer to such and such facts, I think of loli in this case as simply being an abbreviation for those things *if* you are specifically talking about one of the prefix variations. As a word in itself, there's no reason why it cant take up a definition entirely its own, but still related, especially when being isolated to the medium of anime and manga. And if it does I think that definition can plausibly be quite subjective (as I've said before) whether or not a loli - to any given observer - is intended to arouse sexually or simply entertain aesthetically. And even more plausibly completely disconnected from how that same viewer sees actual female children.

Alternatively I could be entirely wrong. It may be true that lolis have a prerequisite sexual appeal intent. They don't appeal to me in that way but I still like them for their cuteness, and to me that's what matters.

Touma wrote:

jsc315 wrote:

... what anime does with the term loli...

Is anime doing something with the term, or is it anime fans who are doing things? Just as the fans, mostly outside of Japan I think, do various things with "moe" and "otaku," to mention just two of the words that have been debated here recently.

I do not recall ever hearing "loli" in an anime, or seeing it in the advertising for an anime.

As I mentioned earlier, I can recall the anime Mondaiji-tachi ga Isekai kara Kuru Sou Desu yo? using the term to describe Shiroyasha Liticia and Pest at the end of the episode 8 (I just checked that it was not just a sub choice it does sound like loli).

I was thinking Kanamemo with this scene at about 5 seconds, although the subber used Lolita, it may well have be loli, I just can't tell with the word following it if it is part of the same word, or different.

Thinking up some specific examples is hard. I think it was used in episode 11 or so in Senyuu also.

Vaisaga wrote:

Touma wrote:

Are shows advertised as being, or having, "loli" when they are marketed in Japan?

All they need to do is show images of the girls.

My question was specifically about the word "loli," not images.
So does that mean that the answer to my question is "no"?
The people who market anime do not use the term "loli" in the advertisements?

Touma wrote:

My question was specifically about the word "loli," not images.
So does that mean that the answer to my question is "no"?
The people who market anime do not use the term "loli" in the advertisements?

Not that I know of, no. But they really don't have to.

DuskyPredator wrote:

I was thinking Kanamemo with this scene at about 5 seconds, although the subber used Lolita, it may well have be loli, I just can't tell with the word following it if it is part of the same word, or different.

In the spoken dialog I'm almost postitive what I'm hearing is "Lolita chikara rokujyuhachiman." or ロリタ力680,000 which roughly translates as indicated in the clip.

Why couldn't she have said spoiler[Her Lolita power is over 9000!] Question

What this and other evidence may suggest is that the word loli doesn't even really exist outside Western anime fan's common usage of it. Which I can accept because like other words that make up an anime fans lexicon, but aren't in common English usage outside of anime, they often evolve so that they are a bit different from their original meaning: As touma has pointed out also.

I also seem to recall Blue Haired Guy with Piercings from Index talking about how he, among other things, also likes loli.

You know, a thought occurred to me...

Are we really in any position to be so hard on Japan for this when our culture allows garbage like Toddlers and Tiaras to exist? Say what you will about lolicon anime, but those children aren't real. Our countries allow the exploitation, objectification, and outright abuse of real life children, by their own families no less, to be glamorized and aired on TV.

Seriously, that show disgusts me to no end.

^Heh, that's something I can definitely agree with xD

Touma wrote:

I do not recall ever hearing "loli" in an anime, or seeing it in the advertising for an anime.
Are shows advertised as being, or having, "loli" when they are marketed in Japan?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=261OpV8_bw0

Good point on toddlers in tiaras.

scineram wrote:

Touma wrote:

I do not recall ever hearing "loli" in an anime, or seeing it in the advertising for an anime.
Are shows advertised as being, or having, "loli" when they are marketed in Japan?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=261OpV8_bw0

I need to rewatch Dance in the Vampire Bound soon. Thanks or the reminder.

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