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[quote="coldfusion5050"]

zetsuie wrote:

hey since thier not going to release onepice anymore im assuming this makes fansubs fair game also are they still goanna release the manga

Ano, no. Fansubs are, by copyright law, illegal at any stage of licencing.
why not it seems like thats the only way fans will be able to see the show now

zetsuie wrote:

why not it seems like thats the only way fans will be able to see the show now

So, why don't you download fansubs even before 4Kids announced they were no longer dubbing One Piece because that was the only way to watch it uncut? Besides which, it was never stated that 4Kids was giving up their rights to One Piece. It was only stated they were no longer dubbing anymore episodes but they still have the rights to the episodes they did dub. But most anime fans don't really care if you download fansubs or not if there's no legit subbed version available and if it's been butchered by 4Kids, but you are confusing ethics with legalities. Just because something is more ethical to do doesn't make it any less legal. I might think that it's no big deal for me to make a U-turn because there's no other way for me to get to my destination without taking a longer route and nobody's in my way, but does that mean that U-turns are suddenly legal to make in areas where they are illegal just because it wasn't unethical to make one in that situation? No, so why should the same apply to fansubs? No matter if it's licensed or not, fansubs are still illegal reproduction of copyrighted materials. It's just that it's considered more ethical to download fansubs of unlicensed anime than it is to download fansubs of licensed anime.

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Just because something is more ethical to do doesn't make it any less legal.

Think of it as civil disobdience against censorship on a small scale. I mean defying segregation by a back refusing to give up a seat to a white was illegal too. However it is nessecary to start the Montgomery Bus Boycott and get the Civil Rights Movement going. Now, don't misunderstand me. This is NOWHERE as near important, I'm just using it as an example to point out there are paralells, despite the obvious difference in scale.

ArielTsuki wrote:

TakinawaTonfa wrote:

skaly wrote:

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Speaking of Shonen Jump shows, whatever became of Shaman King?

Shaman King ran its full 64 episode series on 4kidsTV. There were only 2 DVD releases of the show (both uncut) which essentially went hand in hand with the Yu-Gi-Oh uncuts.

Shaman King wasn't really that popular to begin with though, not even in Japan.

It was popular enough to have 60+ episodes, which incidate it was very much so. It's just it wasn't that popular for a long while after that. I heard the main reason why the DVDs didn't sell because there wasn't really any promotion for them. I wish that they did released the uncut Shaman King. I loved that show (BTW, I saw fansubs of it). (Also, I think that it caught up with the manga by then but it was that popular enough to go through fillers or they decided to end it there. I wonder what happened...)

The SK anime actually splits off from the manga much earlier, when spoiler[Yoh and the gang go to America], but the differences are rather subtle until several episodes later. I can see why it stopped when it did, though, because the rest of the manga is not nearly as action-oriented (-still trying to slog through it-). It's one of those shows that the people who liked it loved, and the people who didn't like it usually dismissed as another shounen action show or thought it was stupid, both of which are correct, but it's done in such a wonderful over the top way that it's hardly offensive. Unfortunately, since 4Kids seemed to assume that EVERY Japanese property they brought over would become the next Yu-Gi-Oh, we'll never get a complete uncut version.

Back on topic, this week's rant. I think this has been stated before, but isn't the violence one of the reasons people get in to anime? I know I first started watching anime because I'd never seen animated characters seriously fighting each other before. When the violence is glorified for the sake of it, yes, then I can see being against it, but if the hero is fighting simply to reach a goal or defend themself, what's wrong with it? I'll cite Fullmetal Alchemist, one of my favorite anime of all time. Tons of violence involving children (or young adults, I guess). Do the characters (at least, the 'good' people) care when they kill things? Of course they do. Probably the best quote to illustrate this point is said by Riza Hawkeye, when asked by the young Winry if she's ever shot anyone. She has, many times. She doesn't like being a soldier, knowing that she has to be prepared to kill people if she recieves the order to, but there's someone she has to protect, so until that person has reached his goal, she will pull the trigger without hesitation. It's not violence for violence's sake, it's violence that has to happen for the characters to develop and for the plot to move.

Also, I laughed at the example of Utena as 'senseless violence'. First off, Utena is in no way violent to the same degree as MANY other series available. Second, the action has a point (albeit a rather odd point, but that's sort of the charm of the show), and it's not at all violent compared to Hellsing or even Naruto.

Thirdly, ranter, the last paragraph sort of dulls the point you spent four paragraphs extolling. Okay, violence is bad and corrupts our children, speak out against it, but I'm actually okay with it. You seem to be encouraging your audience to do something that you yourself do not support, which I suppose is fine, but it makes the whole argument seem pointless.

I'm looking forward to the next "Gifts For People You Hate" section. This week's make me laugh out loud x)

I found this weeks rant by Chris Li to be Very interesting. I agree that you have to be carefull with what you show to children.

Often times adults (as well as TV networks) look at a anime see that its animated and see a couple of cute laughes and assume that it belongs on Cartoon network and is for children of any ages. I speek spacficly of show Naruto. At a first look Naruto looks like a show for kids but as you get into the series you begin to see a lot of adult themes such as Voilence, friends trying to kill eachother, not to mention the many sexual themes. These are thing that i'd think twice about letting me child (if i had one) watch even if they change a couple of the things in the enlish version)

HOWEVER... I think that Chris overlooked some things when watching these voilent animes

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I'm sure there are some calloused viewers who enjoy shows like Evangelion, Gundam SEED, Gunparade March, or Full Metal Panic where children pilot giant mecha to kill.

in all these animes mentioned (the only one I havant seen was Gundam SEED) they focus a huge part of the story and the physcological affects takings its toll on these kids. Rarely are the kids mindless killing machines.

EX. Gundparade march had many episodes showing the pain of loosing classmates and gives a reson why the kids have to fight in the first place. They give a very good picture of the horrors of war. its not all pointless voilence. I could go ON and ON. these are the resons why I like shows like FMA or Gunslinger Girl.

I dont think we should cut all voilent animes but there is a need for a more responsible look on who they are aimed at

Last edited by animalia555 on Tue Dec 12, 2006 1:52 pm; edited 1 time in total

Ranter, the problem with stating your real objective at the very end is that some people may just read the beginning of a long rant, or skim it. Because of this they may easily miss your real point entirely, and think the sarcastic part is the real rant.

The way I see it there are several different types of violence in anime.

1) Comedic, like Azumanga Daioh or when ever some one gets whacked with a paper fan.

2)Seriouse violence, or violence with a point. I.E. the animators are trying to say that violence is bad by showing the most negative images of it and it's consicuences like Grave of the Fireflies, Gundam W, Evangelion (by Eva I mean the damage violence can cause to ones psyche)

3)Glorified/styalized violence, like in most fighting anime.

4)Gratuitiouse like in shows like GANTZ, Elfen Lied, or Berserk.

5)Pornographic like in hentai that has a rape scene with or without tenticles.

The way I see it the majority of violence in Anime is is a combination of Comedic and Seriouse. In the cases of anime with seriouse violence I often feel the violence is well done and there is usually a reason why the violence is happening. In fact in shows like Noir you hardly ever see blood despite all the people getting shot. Also in anime like this they make a point to show you that the outcome of violence isn't good. Chances are some one dies and the main character is more or less affected by it.

When it's all said and done people should just relax and parents should explain to their kids the difference between real life and what's on TV.

To all the parents ranting about how they don't want their sons to have a laptop in their room. They will find porn one way or the other when they start getting interested in it. Hell, I'm a girl and I found my porn when I was in the 5th grade, and I learned a great deal from it, and never regretted it! Why do people think porn is so bad anyway? What's wrong with it?

Volyund wrote:

To all the parents ranting about how they don't want their sons to have a laptop in their room. They will find porn one way or the other when they start getting interested in it. Hell, I'm a girl and I found my porn when I was in the 5th grade, and I learned a great deal from it, and never regretted it! Why do people think porn is so bad anyway? What's wrong with it?

Well, there's the obvious exploitative nature of it. I personally have no problem with people looking at porn (I don't do it myself, I'm more of a trashy fanfic girl), but that's what most people have against it.

Anath_19 wrote:

If anything, I think atheists would be annoyed by that anime based off the Bible more than anything else. Too bad there aren't any R1 DVDs of it, though.

Just import it anyway, hack your DVD player to be region-free, and you'll be good to go. Smile

abunai wrote:

If you want a reason for Christianity (not the Judeo-Christian whole, but the early Christian Church in particular) being pervaded by feelings of abhorrence for natural sexuality, look no further than the twisted man who made this theme so important in both the New Testament and in the Church: St. Paul. Don't blame the Romans for his excesses.

Well, I think Paul's advice was pretty sensible. He said, basically, "Don't marry if you can avoid it (it you can avoid being fixated on sexual desires), but then again, if you think you need to, get married by all means."

What was wrong with that? And what were his excesses? Do you mean talking about sex (and many other things more frequently)? He was addressing problems he saw in the early congregations, which after all were composed of people who in some cases had led lives of debauchery and needed counsel on what being a Christian meant.

Not that I want to start a whole religious thing here; I'm just curious, abunai. Was't it Jesus who said that even looking at a woman with desire was tantamount to committing adultery with her?

Finally, Paul wrote in 1 Cor. 9:5:

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Do we not have the right to take along a Christian wife, as do the rest of the apostles, and the brothers of the Lord, and Cephas?

The priestly celibacy thing started only about 300 years after Paul lived. They may have quoted Paul as their justification, but don't blame the man for the misapplication of his wise words.

Answerman/Zac/Santaman wrote:

Strawberry Marshmallow is a conundrum even to many hardcore anime fans, mostly because it's about the oh-so-cute and kinda creepy exploits of a bunch of elementary schoolgirls, but the show isn't aimed at elementary schoolgirls, it's aimed at college-aged single men. Sure, the show has its charm and all - fans of stuff like Azumanga Daioh will probably dig it - but to someone like Uncle Bob, not only does this show reinforce the notion that anime is for and about schoolchildren, the obvious fetishy overtones the show has will only serve to further terrify and confuse him. He'll dislike you for giving him anime for Christmas in the first place, and boy will he be steamed if he ever actually watches it! So if you're looking to stick it to Uncle Bob this holiday season, look no further than Strawberry Marshmallow! It's available in most stores now from Geneon!

You probably already know that I love to hate on shows that go to far, but what is the deal with you and Strawberry Marshmallow? There are a lot of relatively sick aspects to Japanese culture, and maybe Strawberry Marshmallow was actually marketed in the rather objectionable manner you've claim over in Japan. I don't live there so I'll just have to take your word for it.

Here in North America, however, I didn't see any of what you previously described. There were no late-night TV runs or overtly suggestive ancillary items or fetish style marketing that I could see. There was nothing holding me back from trashing this whole series, except, there was simply almost nothing to trash. Certainly not everyone is going to enjoy such a silly and cute series, even among audiences of young girls, but I don't think that's because it was supposedly aimed exclusively at adult male perverts. Well, at least not here in North America.

If you could point out something in the show itself that convinced you to bring on the hate then I'd love to hear about it. As it is I actually ended up enjoying a show I was expecting to despise. It's not something I'll probably ever watch again, in fact I already gave it away to someone else, but it was fun for a single viewing and I don't think I'm completely out of line for saying so. In any case, I'll probably be back at the station for the next hate train but in the mean time I'm just going to let this one pass me by.

Volyund wrote:

To all the parents ranting about how they don't want their sons to have a laptop in their room. They will find porn one way or the other when they start getting interested in it. Hell, I'm a girl and I found my porn when I was in the 5th grade, and I learned a great deal from it, and never regretted it! Why do people think porn is so bad anyway? What's wrong with it?

I find this statement very disturbing. Just how did you find your copies of porn at the age of 10, or 11 if not on the internet? Was it just your bog standard Playgirl, or Playboy, or was it the more hardcore stuff? Also just what was it you learned from it exactly? Was this exposure alright with your parents? I know my son will discover this stuff sooner, or later. It's just that I perfer it to be later when he will have a bit more maturity to distinguish the right, and wrong of it better.(More wrong than right, but that is for a different thread). Say when he's at least 18. He already knows it exists and so far is displaying what I consider a healthy shy response to it when I have tried to discuss it with him. One can not be a practicing Christian, or Jew, or Muslim without some sense of morality in one's daily life, especially when raising children. This will not be apparant until one grows up to eventually be a parent. Any civil society demands it.

daxomni wrote:

You probably already know that I love to hate on shows that go to far, but what is the deal with you and Strawberry Marshmallow? There are a lot of relatively sick aspects to Japanese culture, and maybe Strawberry Marshmallow was actually marketed in the rather objectionable manner you've claim over in Japan. I don't live there so I'll just have to take your word for it.

Here in North America, however, I didn't see any of what you previously described. There were no late-night TV runs or overtly suggestive ancillary items or fetish style marketing that I could see. There was nothing holding me back from trashing this whole series, except, there was simply almost nothing to trash. Certainly not everyone is going to enjoy such a silly and cute series, even among audiences of young girls, but I don't think that's because it was supposedly aimed exclusively at adult male perverts. Well, at least not here in North America.

If you could point out something in the show itself that convinced you to bring on the hate then I'd love to hear about it. As it is I actually ended up enjoying a show I was expecting to despise. It's not something I'll probably ever watch again, in fact I already gave it away to someone else, but it was fun for a single viewing and I don't think I'm completely out of line for saying so. In any case, I'll probably be back at the station for the next hate train but in the mean time I'm just going to let this one pass me by.

I'm going to have to agree with this... Not because I think the show isn't made to appeal to adult males (it certainly is), but because there really is absolutely no evidence at all that that is who the show is aimed at by simply just viewing the show. Sure, if you're on the internet and all, know what Japanese otaku like and how things are marketed to them, have background knowledge of the creator, read the manga, etc., it's going to be obvious to you who this series was aimed at. But to someone like Uncle Bob, he isn't going to have a clue about any of this. To tell you the truth, even my friends (who are casual anime fans) that I showed this to were convinced, and still are, that this anime is aimed at children. They told me they don't see how it can possibly be aimed at adults, and actually laughed at me when I told them. You have to step back from all of the other stuff and just watch this series with no outside influence. If you do that, there really is no kind of sexual undertones or anything else to this series.

You're only going to notice these "creepy exploits" and "obvious fetishy overtones" if you know about it and if that's what on you're mind when you watch it. And I can guarentee you, that's not what's on Uncle Bob's mind.

Mohawk52 wrote:

I find this statement very disturbing. Just how did you find your copies of porn at the age of 10, or 11 if not on the internet? Was it just your bog standard Playgirl, or Playboy, or was it the more hardcore stuff? Also just what was it you learned from it exactly? Was this exposure alright with your parents? I know my son will discover this stuff sooner, or later. It's just that I perfer it to be later when he will have a bit more maturity to distinguish the right, and wrong of it better.(More wrong than right, but that is for a different thread). Say when he's at least 18. He already knows it exists and so far is displaying what I consider a healthy shy response to it when I have tried to discuss it with him. One can not be a practicing Christian, or Jew, or Muslim without some sense of morality in one's daily life, especially when raising children. This will not be apparant until one grows up to eventually be a parent. Any civil society demands it.

At least 18?! I learned everything about it when I was 11 at school, we got special classes for it. Apart from the biology aspect about it, we were also told about the dangers involved, such as diseases and getting pregnant and such. It was very helpful to fill in the gaps we needed to know about it, and it kept us from doing anything stupid.

Not to offend you or anything (it's your choice) but simply not telling him until he's at least 18 is the attitude that gives birth to the high rates of teenage mothers in your country (they are very rare here). Because parents won't tell them about it, the teenagers go and find out for themselves...with sometimes disastrous results.

I think kids need to be learned about it at around my age, it's just simple biology after all. But hey, that's my opinion.

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