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Zin5ki
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Posts: 6680
Location: London, UK
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Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 5:59 pm
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Sophisticat wrote: | So long as fights don't become staged, it's fine. |
I myself greatly prefer staged fights, for the benefit of entertainment value. With respect to anime promotions, I believe the recent Sapp vs. Kinnikuman attraction shouldn't have been a shoot; I found it a tedious and uninteresting mismatch. Had it instead been a puroresu match under a different organisation, more could have been made of it.
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DomFortress
Joined: 13 Feb 2009
Posts: 751
Location: Richmond BC, Canada
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Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 7:56 pm
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Sophisticat wrote: | ^ What I meant was, you'll see the theatricals played out differently as a result of different cultures. He appeals (or not) to Japanese culture by dressing up like that, the same way an American wrestler would try to show how much of a bad boy he is. |
If he wants to be bad, then all he has to do is becoming a criminal. Social taboo like anime crossplaying is hardly "bad", it's just unhealthy when it became less than a hobby and more of an obsession. In that sense, I would even consider him as a sissy who's only acting "bad" by participating anime crossplay and fighting, both that are consider to be tabooed in our today civilized society.
Sophisticat wrote: | I also disagree with your assessment. Someone who wishes to promote what he loves will find any means to do so. If he makes a fool of himself outside the ring, but brings in the masses, and gives them a good show because he's also a great fighter, then I'd say he's damn good at what he does. |
He's not a great fighter, for his spirit is weak. Otherwise, he would've found a better way to promote what he truly loves just like you've said. Besides, can you honestly say that you're being motivated into both mix martial art and anime crossplay after you witnessing this? I know I surely didn't, because there's no spirit behind what he does, therefore I'm simply not being moved.
Sophisticat wrote: | One's style of promotion shouldn't diminish one's commitment to being a fighter. You, yourself, as a training instructor should know this more than anyone. If you aren't at least half as good a businessman as you are a fighter, you won't be good as either, if only because you're living off what you want to do. That's the reality of it. |
No, the reality is that in our civilized society, there's just no need for a fighter like myself anymore. And I cannot survive in a human society that just don't need the likes of me, so I have to adapt to this society by learning how the system of civility works. Everyone can be a part of the system that's civilization, when they just simply cast aside their fighting spirits. But that would also means that they have to give up a life of struggle, of change, of endless probabilities that's only made possible by the fighting spirit that's inside each and everyone of us. I can be a ruthless fighter, trainer, and a businessman, when I cast aside my principle of civility. However, it's because I held onto civility that I was tenured with financial means, for my trouble of not unleashing my full spirit unto my charges. And quite frankly, I've learned that a civilization of consumerism culture will strip away my fighting spirit, until I'm nothing but a small part of its system.
In another word, we're loosing ourselves in our system of civilization, as we loose our spirits in our selfish consumptions.
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DomFortress
Joined: 13 Feb 2009
Posts: 751
Location: Richmond BC, Canada
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Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 11:55 am
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Zin5ki wrote: |
Sophisticat wrote: | So long as fights don't become staged, it's fine. |
I myself greatly prefer staged fights, for the benefit of entertainment value. With respect to anime promotions, I believe the recent Sapp vs. Kinnikuman attraction shouldn't have been a shoot; I found it a tedious and uninteresting mismatch. Had it instead been a puroresu match under a different organisation, more could have been made of it. |
I just saw the promo myself, and I share your sentiment even from a MMA enthusiast point-of-view. Personally, this is more than just a mismatch, but rather it's a brutal massacre. The only saving grace was from the ref. who called off the said massacre at the end.
Furthermore, the whole event felt more like an exhibition of Sapp's brutality. Granted, Bob Sapp as a professional mix martial artist performed splendidly in this match(I was particularly impressed of his ground techniques), but then his Kinnikuman opponent just wasn't cut off for MMA. I mean, the guy was fixing his mask when he should be fending himself from Sapp's punishing blows! This is solid proof that anime subculture and pro wrestling have nothing to do with MMA, and any kind of infusion attempt with those three will just failed miserably.
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PetrifiedJello
Joined: 11 Mar 2009
Posts: 3782
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Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 12:57 pm
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DomFortress wrote: | The crime:Taking the [url omitted] with [url omitted] his anime crossplay subculture[/url]. |
Mind if I ask a question? Why do you take offense with this direction when anime has done the same for decades?
I can only speculate what real ninjas feel when they watch an episode of Naruto.
I don't know if I can answer your question. I've given up years ago trying to figure out the Japanese subculture which exists in anime, video games, or even some of their broadcasts of game shows.
Some think it's about money. Others to garner attention. But can't all this be classified as entertainment?
I guess as an observer, it's hard to judge. But I have to say, that picture made me laugh. I'll refrain from adding my thoughts about the picture.
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DomFortress
Joined: 13 Feb 2009
Posts: 751
Location: Richmond BC, Canada
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Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 2:00 pm
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PetrifiedJello wrote: |
DomFortress wrote: | The crime:Taking the [url omitted] with [url omitted] his anime crossplay subculture[/url]. |
Mind if I ask a question? Why do you take offense with this direction when anime has done the same for decades? |
By infusing fantasy into reality, just like what you're doing here on another thread by lying about copyright infringement. Now get out of my thread before you ruin the discussion with your lies!
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Sophisticat
Joined: 29 Oct 2008
Posts: 165
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Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 2:42 pm
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^ Then I'd say you're living with the fantasy that the fighting world should follow specific rules. As Jello said, this is entertainment. You're not going to witness the kind of "true fighter" you're looking for in that setting.
I never cared much for any of the nonsense codes of most martial arts schools, if only because fighting is fighting once you get down to it. The dress-up is just an act. I doubt they take it more seriously than the fighting itself, which might not say much.
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PetrifiedJello
Joined: 11 Mar 2009
Posts: 3782
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Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 2:44 pm
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DomFortress wrote: | By infusing fantasy into reality, just like what you're doing here on another thread by lying about copyright infringement. |
Please clarify where I've lied about copyright infringement. Feel free to do so via PM as to protect your thread.
Quote: | Now get out of my thread before you ruin the discussion with your lies! |
No offense, but I'm going to disregard your request. I don't believe I've lied anywhere within it. For you to bring up my other posts was your doing, not mine.
But given you seem to be really, really, REALLY upset with the topic at hand, I'll not spank the hornet's nest with a stick.
But your very first sentence makes me wonder what you define as cosplay if it's not reality and fantasy infusing.
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DomFortress
Joined: 13 Feb 2009
Posts: 751
Location: Richmond BC, Canada
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Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 4:55 pm
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Sophisticat wrote: | ^ Then I'd say you're living with the fantasy that the fighting world should follow specific rules. As Jello said, this is entertainment. You're not going to witness the kind of "true fighter" you're looking for in that setting. |
Wrong, for a true fighter knows exactly the importance of true sportsmanship, and since you said so here that:
Sophisticat wrote: | I never cared much for any of the nonsense codes of most martial arts schools, if only because fighting is fighting once you get down to it. The dress-up is just an act. I doubt they take it more seriously than the fighting itself, which might not say much. |
You'll never understand what true sportsmanship is; self-discipline and humbleness. Which is not anime crossplaying/cosplaying about.
PetrifiedJello wrote: | Feel free to do so via PM as to protect your thread. |
No. Because you publicly lied about copyright infringement, "fair use" limitation, and section 512 of the US Code of Law title 17 right here, so I refuse to settle my dispute regarding your lie on my thread in private.
PetrifiedJello wrote: | No offense, but I'm going to disregard your request. I don't believe I've lied anywhere within it. For you to bring up my other posts was your doing, not mine. |
This is the lie you told on my thread which I speak
PetrifiedJello wrote: |
I can only speculate what real ninjas feel when they watch an episode of Naruto.
Some think it's about money. Others to garner attention. But can't all this be classified as entertainment? |
What you described was a case of fantasy infused with reality, for ninjas are real historical figures that's being used to refer to what the main characters in a fantasy story called Naruto are. But what we got here is the opposite and quite frankly, it's not entertaining because this venture mocks both anime subculture and MMA, for it doesn't produce a entertaining fight among both fandoms.
PetrifiedJello wrote: | But your very first sentence makes me wonder what you define as cosplay if it's not reality and fantasy infusing. |
Read it for yourself:
Quote: | Anime crossplay is a niche sub-branch within the also niche Japanese anime subculture. And to be frank, it's just a grow-up hobby of fantasy character dress-up, with amateur playacting for that flare of dramatics. In another word, an extreme form of anime character worship. I know this sounds harsh, because as a 2nd generation anime otaku, I personally know just how selfish cosplaying/crossplaying can be. It's not a form of self-discipline but an obsession, and at the end of every obsession isn't humbleness but selfishness. Those who finds cosplaying/crossplaying to be entertaining was only able to do so for their self-serving reasons. And as long as the purpose of an action was only self-centered at best, such act won't find itself infused to anything that's greater than only the sum of its parts. This is why anime still remain to be but a subculture, because the fandom themselves in general are just too selfish. |
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Sophisticat
Joined: 29 Oct 2008
Posts: 165
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Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 10:09 pm
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DomFortress wrote: | Wrong, for a true fighter knows exactly the importance of true sportsmanship, and since you said so here that: |
Sure, within that context, I guess.
DomFortress wrote: | You'll never understand what true sportsmanship is; self-discipline and humbleness. Which is not anime crossplaying/cosplaying about. |
Probably not, since I'm a street fighter. I don't see how cosplaying implies a lack of self-discipline, however. It might not be the most humble of self-promotions, but I don't see how that affects him as fighter, either. I see good fighters talking **** all the time, making a ruckus, provoking an opponent, etc. and basically make asses out of themselves. Once you see them in action, though, they're the real thing.
Yeah, I agree this guy isn't the best of fighters from the video you posted, but I absolutely disagree that cosplaying should somehow diminish him. A good fighter in the most ridiculous of dresses remains a good fighter no matter what you do about it. I suggest you drop that elitist attitude, because good fighters take so much advantage of that all the time, that it's not even funny anymore.
What you're worried about is the image of "sportsmanship", and how this guy tarnishes that, which is pretty much irrelevant. Why are you singling out the actions of one individual? If he's the only one doing it, and he's bad at it, then I'm pretty sure that means hundreds of other fighters aren't. If he's good, then more power to him. Besides, if this rakes in cash and crowds, I don't see how the other fighters can complain. And if the crowd doesn't like it, well, I'm pretty sure tournament organizers are going to put an end to that.
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DomFortress
Joined: 13 Feb 2009
Posts: 751
Location: Richmond BC, Canada
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Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 11:08 pm
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Sophisticat wrote: | I don't see how cosplaying implies a lack of self-discipline, however. It might not be the most humble of self-promotions, but I don't see how that affects him as fighter, either. I see good fighters talking **** all the time, making a ruckus, provoking an opponent, etc. and basically make asses out of themselves. Once you see them in action, though, they're the real thing. |
Those aren't even good fighters, when they don't even know why they're still fighting in a civilized society that don't need the likes of their ruthless brutality. For they will never overcome an opponent with a strong fighting spirit, that can manage to survive even in a civilized society. In fact, those brutes are behaving ruthlessly because they're afraid of civilization. And "a rabbit that can survive in a lion's den is the strongest creature of them all," for that rabbit defied the laws of nature.
Sophisticat wrote: | Yeah, I agree this guy isn't the best of fighters from the video you posted, but I absolutely disagree that cosplaying should somehow diminish him. A good fighter in the most ridiculous of dresses remains a good fighter no matter what you do about it. I suggest you drop that elitist attitude, because good fighters take so much advantage of that all the time, that it's not even funny anymore. |
It is pathetic to see a bunch of brutes feeding among themselves as a form of self-serving ego trip, I'll give you that.
Sophisticat wrote: | What you're worried about is the image of "sportsmanship", and how this guy tarnishes that, which is pretty much irrelevant. Why are you singling out the actions of one individual? If he's the only one doing it, and he's bad at it, then I'm pretty sure that means hundreds of other fighters aren't. If he's good, then more power to him. Besides, if this rakes in cash and crowds, I don't see how the other fighters can complain. And if the crowd doesn't like it, well, I'm pretty sure tournament organizers are going to put an end to that. |
If your opinion as a street fighter represents the majority of those ruthless brutes, who think that they're good because of what they do, then martial art is doomed along with the true martial artists' fighting spirits.
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Sophisticat
Joined: 29 Oct 2008
Posts: 165
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Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 11:55 pm
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'k. I wasn't aware fighting was supposed to be a nice tea party between consenting adults who follow the rules set out by a committee.
I'd like to see how your "fighting spirit" survives in a knife fight. Good luck with that. I'm done with this thread.
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DomFortress
Joined: 13 Feb 2009
Posts: 751
Location: Richmond BC, Canada
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Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:14 am
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Sophisticat wrote: | 'I'd like to see how your "fighting spirit" survives in a knife fight. Good luck with that. I'm done with this thread. |
Simple, by not getting myself involved in a knife fight.
And if you did managed to wound me with your knife, I might just die from the wound you inflected on my body, but you'll never defeat my spirit. That's the difference between a ruthless brute and a true fighter; why I'll only fight with my bare hands, but I'll kill with precision and accuracy only when necessary. You OTOH only threaten to kill when you never wanted to fight, and that's why you will not accomplish nether killing nor fighting in your life.
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