Forum - View topicDo you think the Anime golden era was between 88-98?
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ikillchicken
 Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
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Well, I think the easiest way to examine this is to first recognize the various era's within anime, golden or otherwise. I personally would divide anime into 4 eras.
The Bronze Age: Up to the Mid 80s. The first era of anime would be the original TV era. Starting way back in the early days of Astroboy and Speed Racer and peaking in the early 80s. Anime generally bore more resemblance to American cartoons initially in this era. However, it moved steadily toward more intelligent and complex series. The growing anime movie industry that sprang up initially from TV spinoffs but grew into such hits as Nausicaa, Macross DYRL. This maturing let to... The Silver Age: Mid 80s to mid 90s. The mid 80s saw the rise of the OVA boom. Short, individual projects lead to a great deal of experimentation and a much more mature focus (Sadly that term applies in the decidedly immature 'blood n' boobs sense at least as much as the true sense). Though it did lose steam by the mid 90s, the OVA market continued well into the 00s. The movie market continued to grow as well and produced numerous hits, including Akira. This era contained several big name TV series as well including DBZ. However, TV series tended to be otherwise un-notable. That said, the continuing success of those ongoing series probably lead to the next era... The Golden Age: Mid 90s to mid 00s. The second TV era. This was the first time we really saw more complex, serious stories told in great numbers on TV. This era produced so many notable hits such as NGE, Cowboy Bebop and Trigun and despite perhaps losing some steam in the early 00s, it continued all the way until the late 00s. The OVA market remained respectable as well and the movie industry only continued to grow thanks to the works of Miyazaki, Oshii and Kon among others. The Post-Apocalyptic Age: Mid 00s to present. And so we arrive at the current era. The long growing bubble created by the golden age burst in the mid 00s and gave way to a majorly scaled back anime industry. The TV market remained but in a vastly reduced manner and any remaining OVAs were reduced to TV spinoffs. The movie industry remains solid thanks to an influx of new talent. So...yeah. I'm generally indifferent to the bronze age. The silver age is quite interesting and a great deal of fun if also a mixed bag. The gold age was the best. Such a huge list of notable titles. (see dtm's post for further details). The post-apocalyptic age is actually not quite as awful as you might think given the name. I mean, it's pretty awful compared to the golden age but there are still quite a few notable titles there. |
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rebecca1/2
 Posts: 25 Location: USA |
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I don't know how you could see anything but the decade of roughly 1999-2008 as the golden era, with the most anime on TV, the most series no matter how obscure or lousy getting a dub release, and series even turning up for sale in places as ubiquitous as Wal-mart. Heck I found anime DVDs in my local grocery store last year.
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Kruszer
 Posts: 7986 Location: Minnesota, USA |
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I've gotta' agree there, the golden age would be when anime was the most widely known and liked.
That's how media works though. It's like a fundamental truth. When everything's been done already, semblance of originality can only be achieved by doing it again in a different way or combining things that worked to make a a greater piece. |
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ArsenicSteel
 Posts: 2370 |
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The relative availability of anime in your given time frame, 1999-2008, did not occur on its own. It was the previous decades penetrating popularity that increased anime awareness to the current levels we have now. There were a lot of good anime with a plethora of first time accomplishments and breakthroughs. |
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kikiyo2
Posts: 36 |
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Each year we've gotten better and better anime shows. Better animation, better storytelling, better music, better everything. Anyone who can't see that really needs to have their eyes examined. I can't stand watching anything from the 80's as it all looks like garbage. That's like saying black&white is better than color. Hell, there's only a couple 90's shows I can stand mostly due to nostalgia/growing up with them. This is from the Japanese side though. We've yet to reach the "golden age" here in the US.
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walw6pK4Alo
 Posts: 9322 |
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I'd say after the advent of digital animation around 2000, most anime except for a few notable shows, turned to complete shit. Everyone rushed to the new way of doing things and basically forgot how to animate and draw correctly.
Your argument lies on the idea that this is about anime in America, being broadcast and dubbed. We're discussing the original production dates in Japan, not secondary work added on later. Dubs and TV are completely pointless to this discussion. It might have been a great time for us as fans here, but it's irrelevant. And Kikiyo2 is exactly the type of person I meant who can't even stand to watch Eva just because it "looks old". Ew, it's not kawaii and uguu enough, it must suck. I truly hate people who can't at least appreciate work from all time periods, it gives you a better understanding of what we're getting now. And if you did understand that, you'd see that a majority of the stuff now is simply throw-away garbage. I sure do love my Xebec ecchi anime, but even I recognize that in some regard it is crap and reflects poorly on anime as a whole. But it's still enjoyable. Also, the black and white comment. Black and white can be better than color for portraying certain things. For instance, it can do shadows and light in a way that color film never will. But it's not really about color versus black and white, it's about the films made during that era. |
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nightjuan
 Posts: 1473 |
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There are many answers to that question. In terms of quality? Not necessarily. In terms of importance? Not at all.
In a way, I would pretty much take your classifications and turn all of them around. I'd consider the real Golden Age to be everything from the beginning of anime up to the mid-1970s or so, not because of the objective quality of the specific titles -which can't be fairly judged from a modern perspective- but due to their innovation and lasting influence. Historical importance isn't something that can just be waved away, in my opinion, regardless of how many of those shows are currently available, much less watchable. I just believe it's important to value the development of the medium as a whole. The Silver Age, in that sense, would essentially cover the 80s and the Bronze Age would be the 90s. Naturally, as time passes I'm sure future generations of fans and critics will come up with different classifications of their own, but that's how I'd prefer to look at it. |
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Spastic Minnow
 Bargain HunterExempt from Grammar Rules  Posts: 4615 Location: Gainesville, FL |
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Would this thread possibly be better titled "When do you think Anime's Golden Age was?" Because it is definitely a subjective thing based on what you think "Golden age" means.
Unless you do consider it based on objective factors. Does financial growth, licensing power and production define a golden age or is it quality based? Well quality is subjective. I was recently talking with someone that wouldn't accept that anything but '75-82 could be considered the goklden age, based mainly on his love of Leiji Matsumoto (Captain Harlock, Galaxy Express 999, etc.) Personally I don't think it's too important. I love Galaxy Express 999, I love Ranma 1/2, Tenchi Muyo, Cowboy Bebop, Azumanga Daioh,The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya, Bacano, etc.. Stuff from multilple times and genres. I've never been able to figure out what I should consider a golden age. |
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ArsenicSteel
Posts: 2370 |
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Each year anime generally gets better from a technical aspect; better tools to improve the overall product BUT(very big but) that doesn't logically mean technically superior anime of now is indiscriminately better than anime of 10 years ago. It would be like saying Soul Eater is better than Hunter x Hunter because it looks better. Some shows age better than others, and deciding which shows aged better is still highly subjective. Like me personally I would rather watch some 80s and 90s shows than current. I feel the stories were done better. Unlike you I enjoy entertainment for more than its face value. Last edited by ArsenicSteel on Fri Jan 22, 2010 7:16 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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The King of Harts
 Posts: 6712 Location: Mount Crawford, Virginia |
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Does the phrase "No more source material" mean anything to you? Because it does to me. I wouldn't dare say that the shows from 00's as a whole have better story telling because most of them don't even have an ending. Hell, I can watch most any show from this era and tell you what's filler and what's not because the drop in quality is so huge. Are there exceptions? Of course. Could that feeling be amplified by the sheer number of shows being made? Absolutely. I just see the latter as being an excuse, though. It just feels like so many shows today are simply made to be advertisements for the source material instead actually being a good, stand alone piece of work. |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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"Historical importance" has been mentioned a couple of times now, but I struggle to understand what those people were meaning. If you think about it, each and every year is historically important, because without one there can be no subsequent productions. Imagine if no Anime was produced this year. Basically, there wouldn't be much of an industry left after twelve months. Cashflow people, cashflow. Plus, each year helps shape the industry, even if only by a little.
So you can say "the era of 1979-1988 was an historically important era", but not only is that uncomfortably broad, it is also misleading. Because the era of 1989-1994 was just as important, even though Anime was in a slump (at least in terms of T.V.. I think the more suitable term would be "landmark", where a particular year or period is more notable than others, not necessarily more important. |
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Mushi-Man
 Posts: 1537 Location: KCMO |
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I could see this point, how ever there were plenty of creative works of the last decade. FLCL, Death Note, 5 cm per second, Mushi-shi, Millennium Actress, ext. are all series that have completely broken the mold of what is considered a typical anime. On top of that, the anime of this so called gold age that we praise so much aren't as unique as we'd like to think. Evangelion, all though it was crazy awesome, was actually a tribute to old super robot shows. Dragon Ball was actually just taking old Chinese mythology and mixing it with stereotypical shonen fighting series. Tenchi Muyo!, even though it was some what entertaining, was extremely generic. Oh and lets not forget the 1980's Astro Boy, one guess what that's a re-make of. I'm not saying that either decade was more creative than the other, just that creativity has by no means dropped in recent years. This proses of throw backs, re-makes, and generic titles is nothing new, it's been going on for a long time. And if we're going to judge a "golden age" on which era of anime was the most creative then we'd basically have to go all the way back to the beginning and see that Tezuka created it all before. After reading everyone's replies I find myself wondering "why do we keep trying to separate anime into which decade they're from?" I don't see why we insist of breaking them apart and then trying to declare one better than the rest (usually based on little more than which era you grew up in). Can't we all just decide to separate anime by the way nature intended; by which anime are good, and which suck. It's easy and plus we dont develop any form of class elitism. |
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Westlo
 Posts: 1684 |
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If we're talking "quality" I'll put the 2006-2007 against any other 2 year period.
ARIA The NATURAL, BLACK LAGOON I & II, Bokura ga Ita, Code Geass, Death Note, Higurashi no Naku Koro ni, Honey & Clover II, Kanon 2006, Kekkaishi, NANA, Ouran High School Host Club, Paprika, Saiunkoku Monogatari, Simoun, Suzumiya Haruhi, The Girl Who Leapt Through Time. 5 Centimeters per Second, BACCANO!, Clannad, Claymore, Denno Coil, ef - a tale of memories, Ghost Hound, Higurashi no Nakukoro ni Kai, Mononoke, Nodame Cantabile, Saiunkoku Monogatari 2nd Season, Sayonara Zetsubo Sensei, Seirei no Moribito, Shigurui, Seto no Hanayome, Shion no Ou, Sword of the Stranger, Tengen Toppa Gurren-lagann, Terra e..., Victorian Romance Emma 2nd Season. I felt these two years have some major hits throughout them (like Haruhi, Code Geass) as well as providing some of the most entertaining shows in years. Most genres were well accounted for and a lot of future classics came out of that two year period. The last few years have been a let down compared to 08-07, but you still have some quality shows coming through. The Kara no Kyoukai movies are quite the experience, Time of Eve is a fascinating OVA series, Bakemonogatari, Toradora and Natsume are top shows for their genres. |
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ikillchicken
Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
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I don't know about Deathnote but regardless, I'm sure nobody would deny that there have been some original and/or quality titles in recent years.
Come on. Dragonball has about as much to do with Chinese mythology as Ikki Tousen. Also, it kind of invented a lot of those Shonen cliches. Also, while EVA may have in someways been a throwback to old Super Robot shows, it clearly incorporates so much else and many elements of real robot shows. Trying to dismiss it's originality on such basis is crazy.
Well, I would agree in terms of decades. It's just an arbitrary distinction. However, I do think that anime can be quite clearly divided into distinct time periods with distinct trends and pros and cons as I explained in my earlier post.
This little shot at everyone's credibility is uncalled for. I for one got into anime in mid 2005, right as the current age (my least favorite) was starting.
Ah but then how can we separate anime at all? Clearly people disagree about even what can be called good. So doesn't that create this whole elitism problem as well? Maybe we should just never state our opinions on anime at all? No, of course that's crazy. There's no reason we can't disagree and still have a civil discussion about it without getting all snobby. I see no reason you need to complain about it in this or any other case. |
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nightjuan
Posts: 1473 |
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That's the thing...while cashflow is indeed an essential part of the business model behind anime productions and it is definitely necessary for the industry to continue to function in its current state -that much is undeniable- at least I was thinking in terms of innovation and creativity, first and foremost, which is a sufficiently different point. If, say, no anime were made during a set 12 month period that would definitely hurt the industry as a whole but, from an artistic perspective, by this point in time the entire medium has already been defined and has acquired enough complexity to persist as a specific art or entertainment form with its own genres, tropes and elements.
Sure, it's a valid alternative if using that term helps make the distinction clearer. |
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